no start, no codes

[vroomzoomboom]

i just swapped motors. 97 sohc (running) into a 01 sport (not running). there are no codes, there is fuel, and there is spark. using a snap on scan tool, it has no codes present. when i did the motor swap, i took all the harnesses from the 01, and put them on the 97 with the intake, fuel rail and injectors. the only two i didn't swap was the cam and crank position sensors (according to rock auto they are the same part number). motor will crack, but not fire.

 

[pauley]

do either of these trucks have drive by wire??

 

[vroomzoomboom]

do either of these trucks have drive by wire??

sorry to sound dumb, please explain. if you mean, no throttle cable, no, they both have cables (at least i hope that was what you where asking).

also, when i pulled the old motor out, there is/was evidence that it was overheated badly. the thermostat housing had melted three holes on the top of it, the upper rad hose fell off, and i just bumped it by accident, and the wire loom for the knock sensor was melted. after seen those things, i knew the old motor was no longer any good as well.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Check for spark

You may have a PATS issue and the system is disabling the ignition.

 

[pauley]

when you say it has fuel do you mean it has proper fuel pressure or do you mean that the injectors are actually pulsing??

 

[vroomzoomboom]

You may have a PATS issue and the system is disabling the ignition.

the theft light goes off when the ignition is on, and it dose get spark. i would have to think i can rule the pats out, but thanks trying to help.

when you say it has fuel do you mean it has proper fuel pressure or do you mean that the injectors are actually pulsing??

i don't have a pressure regulator. i can smell fuel (i think because i have one o ring leaking, will solve that problem later). i assume to check to see if the injectors are pulsing, i would have to unplug one, and put a volt meter on it?

 

[2000StreetRod]

no regulator?

With no fuel pressure regulator your fuel pressure could be very high resulting in an excessively rich mixture. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge to check the pressure? Are the plugs wet from fuel?

In retrospect it's the fuel injection that's disabled by PATS instead of the ignition. I ran into the problem the second day I had my Sport and tried to start it with an unprogrammed ignition key! In case it's a lack of fuel instead of too much fuel try spraying starter fluid into the intake tube and see if the engine runs for a second or two.

 

[pauley]

With no fuel pressure regulator your fuel pressure could be very high resulting in an excessively rich mixture. Do you have a fuel pressure gauge to check the pressure? Are the plugs wet from fuel?

In retrospect it's the fuel injection that's disabled by PATS instead of the ignition. I ran into the problem the second day I had my Sport and tried to start it with an unprogrammed ignition key! In case it's a lack of fuel instead of too much fuel try spraying starter fluid into the intake tube and see if the engine runs for a second or two.

don't spray it into the maf that has bad news written all over it

 

[2000StreetRod]

Totally agree!

don't spray it into the maf that has bad news written all over it

Good point! I disconnected the tube at the rear of the MAF sensor and then sprayed toward the throttle body.

 

[pauley]

Good point! I disconnected the tube at the rear of the MAF sensor and then sprayed toward the throttle body.

And???

 

[shadowless127]

here's a dumb question... did u check the inertia switch in the passenger side kick panel?

also, if there was a PATs problem the engine wouldn't crank.

 

[2000StreetRod]

Mine cranked

. . .
also, if there was a PATs problem the engine wouldn't crank.

Mine cranked every time I turned the nonmicrochip key to start. That's why it took me so long to figure out what was wrong. When I sprayed starter fluid into the intake it started immediately and ran for a second or two. That made me think it was a fuel problem but when I checked the fuel test port I had pressure. The PCM wasn't opening the injectors.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

ok, today a friend that was a shop foreman at one of the ford dealers came over quickly to help (he didn't have much time). to start, the motor was flooded. pulled all the plugs out, and dried them, and changed the oil. the motor will spin, and catch, but not start. at first, thought one or two injectors where open, but that is not the problem. the inertia switch is working fine. we actually used it at one point to shut the fuel system off (that way the injectors wouldn't pulse). we know that it gets spark, and fuel, but cant figure out why it will not fire. the only code it gave us was a P1000, thats not a problem at all, and i think it was a P1116, which is a coolant temp sensor out of range, but on the scan tool, it was measuring 5C (which was the outside temp at the time).

keep the suggestions coming, cause this is starting to get personal! LOL!

 

[vroomzoomboom]

well, we came up with another thought, but it didn't work. the starter is spinning the motor slowly. what we figured was that the cats where plugged, because the old motor had visible signs of a major overheating (thermostat had three melt holes in it, knock sensor wire loom was melted in a few spots, and the rad was no where full). we figured, maybe if the cats are plugged, it would cause the motor to fight itself when on the exhaust stroke. i unbolted the manifolds from the exhaust, and tried to start it. no dice. it still wants to fire, but it will not.

 

[pauley]

How much fuel pressure dose it have excatly???

 

[vroomzoomboom]

How much fuel pressure dose it have excatly???

duh! why do i keep forgetting that! thank you again pauley for reminding me. i will have to hunt down a gauge tomorrow. if i am not wrong, the pressure should be 45 with the truck off, and 90 running, is that correct?

edit

the one thing however, with this being a return-less fuel system, if the pressure is out, how do i go about fixing that!

 

[pauley]

90 seems a little high. if you are soaking plugs with raw fuel then it is fairly safe to say that it's too much. also how did you test the spark you really to jump quite a gap in the air in order to simulate a plug tring to fire in a compressed combustion chamber so you may want to try another coil pack too. If it is reternless fuel system then I take it there is no regulator on the rail so if it's too low try a fuel filter and if it's high it will most likely need s pump.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

i pulled a wire on the coil. i know it will not need a new coil, because this motor ran in the truck i pulled it from (i drove it home) and used the same coil. it was flooded, now it isn't. as mentioned, i will have to put a gauge on it to find out the pressure. i know on my 90 ranger (i know its a different animal all together but its a starting point), its 45 pounds when not running, and i beleive it was about 90 running.

 

[2000StreetRod]

why replacement?

Did you determine what was wrong with the old engine before replacing it? Could it have been something external to the engine such as the PCM and now you're fighting the same problem?

Did you check to make sure the plug wires are connected to the coil pack to match the firing order? A common mistake is swapping 5 & 6. Ford uses a waste spark system firing a cylinder on compression stroke at the same time as one on exhaust stroke. Pairs are 5 & 1, 6 & 2, 4 & 3. They are side by side on the coil pack. #1 on coil pack is driver side rear. #2 is driver side middle. #3 is driver side front. #5 is passenger side rear. #6 is passenger side middle. #4 is passenger side front. Firing order is 1-4-2-5-3-6. Do you have one of those inexpensive ignition test lights to confirm you have spark at the plug?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

old motor hand no compression (making me believe timing chain failed) and as mentioned, had signs of being overheated badly.

unless the firing order has changed over the years, i never removed the coil, or changed the spark plug wires. as mentioned before, this motor ran in the truck i pulled it out of.