no start, no codes

[CDW6212R]

Okay, so the only change is the longblock and a couple of sensors? Good, then the fuel pressure should be 60psi when you test it. After that, I'd check back over the plug wire order, those are easy to get mixed up. Change the plugs if they are still the flooded ones, it's possible for them to not work after that.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

once again! thanks don. i never did touch the plugs, or wires when i swapped the motors. i have to now drag the truck to a friends place to work on it. its been too cold and raining here and i want to get this thing running! I'm going to have to invest in a regulator, nobody i know has one. i hope i will be able to work on it tonight, if not tomorrow for sure, and i will post my frustrations as i go.

 

[CDW6212R]

Do you mean the FPR? That's about $90 just like the pump from what I found last time. I bought a whole used assembly for $50 from a yard. The hoses will wear out over time, look them over well for cracking.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

sorry, i should have said, fuel pressure gauge so i can see what the pressure realy is.

 

[Jestarr]

You said you were using the 97 keys, so if you aren't using the 97 module I thought it may cause issues, sorry for the bad info.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

the only thing that i replaced in the 01 with 97 parts are the complete long block (block, heads, water pump water pump pulley, balancer, flywheel, cam, and crank position sensor, valve covers, and nothing more). the rest is 01.

 

[Axial32]

have you whiped down the crank position sensor

 

[Jestarr]

hey don! yes, i did use the rail, injectors, harness, upper and lower intakes, and the pcm and keys. from the 97, i used the cam and crank position sensors and thermostat housing. the theft light goes off after i turn the key as well, and doesn't flash at all. i was going to play around with it some more today, but it was raining, and i am garage-less.

This is the post that confused me with what you used from each truck.
Sorry about that.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

jestarr, no problem. i should be the one to be sorry if i came off a little snappy. i know your all trying to help.

now.

i have a little up date, some good, some not so good. i checked to see if the injectors where pulsing with a test light, and they where, so now i know that the computer is telling them to open and close. i would have checked to see if any where hanging open, but i wanted to do a compression test first seeing that it was fairly easy to do, that and to satisfy a friends curiosity. now the first time i did this, i had 2 cylinders reading no compression, and one i was not sure about........ now i am sure............ i squirted some AFT into the cylinders because more then likely any oil was washed away when it flooded. the results are in. starting on the back cylinder on the passengers side and moving to the front. rear cylinder 0, middle 157, front 0. drivers side, rear cylinder 10, middle 0, front 120. i have the intake off, disabled the fuel pump, and unplugged the coil when i did this. for the cylinders reading 0, the compression is coming up out of the intake.
what the hell did i do to this thing?! this motor was running great when i pulled it out! someone correct me if i am wrong, but this motor is way out of time.

 

[Cobraguy]

Flooding your engine did NOT give you the zero compression numbers. That is so...well...let's leave it at that.

However, if you flooded it so bad you hydraulically locked the engine and bent something, that's different. But that would really be surprising.

You don't need to leak the motor by the sound of it. You can tell the intake valves are open by just cranking it over? Let's get the valve covers off and see if the valves are operating or are stuck. Also see if they move the entire length of travel and they aren't bent. If all the valves seem to be in good order, then the only explanation can be a cam timing issue. One thing you might try is rotating an individual cylinder and watch the valves. See if they open and close when they should in regards to piston movement. We need to see if you have an actual physical problem or a cam timing problem. If the cam timing is off, not only do you have compression problems, but the ECM can't fire the sparkplugs or the injectors when it's supposed to.

By the way, don't ever use a timing light to check injector pulses. You can very easily knock a driver out of the ECM. They make what is called noid lights. They are inexpensive and designed to work with the low current requirements of the ECM.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

thanks cobraguy. i am going to pull the valve cover off later and see what it is doing. i don't know what to hope for. it is out of time, I'm not sure on how to put it back in time. if a cam tensioner is fubard, i know i can't do that either. the way i could tell that the compression was coming out the intake was if i put my hand over the intake runner (the upper intake is off at the moment), it would push my hand off it, instead of wanting to suck it in. also, no, when i was seeing if the injectors pulsed, i used a 12 volt test light, and not a timing light.

if the valves are stuck, how do i go about getting them to move, or would it be game over for the valves as they would already be bent? i used to realy like these little sohc motors because they have some grunt to them, but i am ready to choke the dumbass that designed it!

 

[BobWiersema]

I know I pointed this out before but I'll try to explane this bizarre engine a little better. First thing to remember is the 4.0 SOHC is an interference engine. In other words, it bends valves if you crank it over out of time. You also are supposed to remove all of the cam rockers before working on it because simply turning the crankshaft or a camshaft can bend valves.

You said you turned it backwards while changing the flywheel, you now have no compression in 4 out of 6 cylinders.

I hate to say it, but I think you have your answer, bent valves.

Obviously this will require major engine repair, if it was anything else but a SOHC it wouldn't be a big deal to pull the heads and rebuild them. This engine requires an entire set of specialty tools to align the cams. Giant pain in the butt.

I was also wondering why you decided to use the 4.0 sohc, I think other engines fit. The only reason I replaced my sohc with another sohc is because Ford gave me a free one.

Good luck and let us know what you find out.

Bob

 

[vroomzoomboom]

the reason why i was replacing this motor was, i got the truck (a 01 sport) for $1100 with 180K km's (that would be 111K miles for you guys). then i scored a 97 sport for $400, and i drove it home. was going to put the "running" motor into the 01 and resell it. what i don't understand is this summer i changed a motor in a 00 sport, but with a 00 motor as well. there was nothing different that i did to that truck that i did to this on. it even sat in my shed for two years, i turned it backwards and forwards (while putting the nuts on the flywheel for the torque converter, i didn't change the fly wheel for either truck) and it started and ran fine.

 

[aklmfreak]

the 97 SOHC ran fine but maybe the timing chain tensioners were already shot, so when you were turning it forwards and backwards to hook up the flywheel it jumped out of time....??? and then cranking it bent some valves? That's about the only thing i can think of right now.....

if the timing chain tensioners in your previous 2000 SOHC engine swap were still good, that would explain why you didnt have any trouble with that swap...

that's the only "x" factor i can think of at the moment....

 

[Cobraguy]

You said you turned it backwards while changing the flywheel, you now have no compression in 4 out of 6 cylinders.

I hate to say it, but I think you have your answer, bent valves.

Bob, are you trying to tell us that simply rotating a fully assembled engine backwards will bend valves? I find that very hard to believe. I haven't worked much on 4.0 SOHC motors, but this is the first I have ever heard of such a thing. Furthermore, I couldn't find a warning anywhere in any of my manuals. You are probably correct in it being an interference engine, but I'm not buying that turning it backwards will do anything. Afterall, everything still stays in phase.

 

[Cobraguy]

vroom...I meant a 12V test light. You don't want to use one on injectors. Use a noid light instead.

If the valves are bent, then the heads have to come off. Period. If they are stuck, the same is true. I've seen guys pop stuck valves loose before, but that is a really bad way to do it...and you can bet they would stick again. If they are bad, take the heads off. You can buy the tools necessary in a lot of places...or you can just have someone do it who's set up for it. But first things first...let's see if we can find out for sure what's going on.

 

[BobWiersema]

Bob, are you trying to tell us that simply rotating a fully assembled engine backwards will bend valves? I find that very hard to believe. I haven't worked much on 4.0 SOHC motors, but this is the first I have ever heard of such a thing. Furthermore, I couldn't find a warning anywhere in any of my manuals. You are probably correct in it being an interference engine, but I'm not buying that turning it backwards will do anything. Afterall, everything still stays in phase.

What do you think happened to that engine? Little valve munching gremlins?
Any other engine you would be correct, however the 4.0 sohc engine was designed by evil little green aliens content on making my life difficult. I am more confident that I could disassemble and reassemble a Swiss watch drunk and blindfolded then one of these engines.

The ford 4.0 sohc contains the following parts to connect the crank to the heads.
# 2 Timing Chains 78 Link (from jack shaft to cams)
# 1 Jack shaft Chain 62 Link (from crankshaft to jack shaft)(rear location)
# 1 Oil Line Restrictor
# 1 Tensioner (for Rear Cam Chain)
# 1 Tensioner (for Front Cam Chain)
# 1 Tensioner (for Jackshaft chain)
# 1 Guide Rail (for jack shaft fixed rail)
# 1 Guide Rail Assembly (for front cam chain rails)
# 1 Guide Rail Assembly (for rear cam chain rails)
# 1 Lower Tensioner (for balance shaft chain) (Requires engine removal to change)
# 1 Front Balance Shaft Chain 62 Link (Requires engine removal to change)
# 1 Guide Rail (for fixed balanced shaft rail) (Requires engine removal to change)

And all this requires this kit to change. http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_12993_159/rotunda_specialty_tools_explorer_timing_chain_cam.html

So once again, I ask what do you think happened?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

well i just came back from pulling a valve cover off. everything looks like it opens and closes fine. which i now will have to say this thing is out of time. i still cant understand why i was able to do one motor the exact same way without any problems, and this one farts in my face!
bob, even if the valves were not bent (if they where, wouldn't the motor lock up on me when i was spinning it by hand?) by the sound of it, you must be a rocket scientist to put one of these back in time, and with the motor being out of the truck?
i also noticed this

if you can read it, it says 04/14/00. to me that says that this motor i took out of a 97 is a 00. unless someone changed the valve cover. i only pulled the drivers side off as well. i figured i would have an answer by just doing one side. and i have my answer. i hate these sohc motors......
keep in mind i am only fixing this truck so i can turn around and sell it. also, i don't want to just butcher it back together and dump it on someone, i would like it to run for them for a long time to come, but i don't want to spend a wheel barrel full of money to do that, or a bunch of time. am i better off just to find another motor for it? we have what are called autopac auctions here every wed. (that is the public insurance auction that sells all vehicles that have been totaled from any accidents). i am sure i can get a truck from there from anywhere from $200-400. if i have to pull another motor from a different truck, that i don't mind. just timing a motor that i have zero experience with makes me a little leery. also, if i do pull another motor, i take it DO NOT spin it backwards. correct me if i am wrong, facing the flywheel, a motor will spin clockwise, correct?

 

[pauley]

Rotating the engine backwards will not bend valves it will make the chain skip then cranking the engine with the starter bends valves. Now I'd get a diffrient engine cause chances are you have a religius piston some where in there. Also cobra guy you should get a diffriet service manual because my service program states " do not rotate engine assembly backwards severe engine damage can occur." that sucks that you need another engine or a rebuild I feel for ya let us know how the auction goes.

 

[Cobraguy]

vroom, I wouldn't write that engine off by a long shot just yet. I understand you are uncomfortable with the cams and valves, but there are ways to check and see if you have valve issues. The tools to align the shafts aren't hard to find either. Can you remove the followers so you can use air pressure to see if the valves are sealing?

I have several factory manuals and I can't find where it says don't turn the engine backwards. Maybe it's there...but I don't see it. And what happens if the engine tries to 'diesel' on shut off and spits backward??