Dismiss Notice



Register Today It's free! This box will disappear once registered!

OK, now I have stroke, but how do I balance it? Harmonic balancer issues

Discussion in 'Need for Speed!' started by Turdle, August 13, 2007.


  • Searches ExplorerForum.com
    1. Turdle

      Turdle Will cook for gas Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 16, 2003
      Messages:
      27,771
      Likes Received:
      242
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Humboldt, KS
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      2000 Mounty
      Gimme 5000 and I'll trade you--:D
       
    2. Support EF

      Join the Elite Explorers for $20

      Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose fix problems yourself, and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members see practically no ads, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments directly to your posts and Media Gallery, create more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.


      to hide adverts.
    3. Dan Whitaker

      Dan Whitaker One fast putty tat Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      December 24, 2001
      Messages:
      7,081
      Likes Received:
      9
      Trophy Points:
      58
      City, State:
      Raytown MO (Kansas City suburb)
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      No Mounty no more.
      I forgot about all the tuning issues as well.
       
    4. techieman33

      techieman33 Explorer Addict

      Joined:
      January 29, 2005
      Messages:
      8,011
      Likes Received:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      City, State:
      Topeka, KS
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      00 V8 Mountaineer
      he wouldn't save any money doing that, he'd spend any saved money on fixing the body/paint.
       
    5. Turdle

      Turdle Will cook for gas Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 16, 2003
      Messages:
      27,771
      Likes Received:
      242
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Humboldt, KS
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      2000 Mounty
      He would still save big $$
      believe me--
       
    6. Turdle

      Turdle Will cook for gas Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 16, 2003
      Messages:
      27,771
      Likes Received:
      242
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Humboldt, KS
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      2000 Mounty
      you forgot some things

      transmission stuffs-
      torque converter
      throttle body
      maf sensor
      new o2 sensors

      it adds up fast-

      I'll bet I can account for 15k--
       
    7. Spas

      Spas It's all Jack's fault Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      August 27, 2001
      Messages:
      5,490
      Likes Received:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      City, State:
      Freakland, Pa
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      7 Sploder herd
      And the trans stuff Jt listed is assuming your 4r70w DOESN'T need a complete overhaul to begin with :(

      My list so far is upper & lower intake, intake gaskets, injectors, throttle body, Focus Svt fuel pump, Msd, '98 2wd Pcm/ecu, better water pump, main girdle, oil pan, plugs & wires, electric fan, aluminum radiator, v8 wiring harness, trans rebuild/kit, torque monster headers, electric cut outs, x-pipe/cats/o2 sensors, mufflers/whole new exhaust system, deeper trans pan, flywheel, balancer, torque converter, driveshaft.....

      Be grateful you v8 guys already have the majority of parts you need in place. There's the next $5 grand of my earnings, and that's not including a million little things like nut and bolts, just 'cuz Blackjack is a v6. :rolleyes: I just keep telling myself it'll all be worth it when I lead a Corvette to the traps in a 1/4 mile ;)
       
    8. Dan Whitaker

      Dan Whitaker One fast putty tat Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      December 24, 2001
      Messages:
      7,081
      Likes Received:
      9
      Trophy Points:
      58
      City, State:
      Raytown MO (Kansas City suburb)
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      No Mounty no more.
      That's one problem as well. Mine has 195,000 miles on it and has not been touched. In another 5,000 miles I plan on having it rebuilt before it calls it quits.

      The more I think about it the more $$$ my Mounty is going to fix up then it is worth.
       
    9. Spas

      Spas It's all Jack's fault Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      August 27, 2001
      Messages:
      5,490
      Likes Received:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      City, State:
      Freakland, Pa
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      7 Sploder herd
      I would never have modified any of my Explorers if I was worried about what they were worth, man.... I fix my trucks because they're worth it to me. How much does that equal, you ask?

      They're priceless ;)
       
    10. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 17, 2004
      Messages:
      15,846
      Media:
      3
      Albums:
      1
      Likes Received:
      202
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Knoxville, TN
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 Limited AWD
      High performance engines always push the total cost above the vehicles value.

      Buy a crate engine, don't piece one together. I don't know how good those Scat cranks are. Bob Glidden ran Pro Stock in the early 70's with stock cast cranks inside 351 Clevelends. He turned them 9500rpm, Ford cast cranks are almost as good as GM forged cranks.

      Consult with the crate engine builders. Work into a good combination which they build for you. The extra step of better parts will add to the cost, just shop around for a builder who doesn't overcharge for those upgrades. Good luck,
       
    11. Turdle

      Turdle Will cook for gas Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 16, 2003
      Messages:
      27,771
      Likes Received:
      242
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Humboldt, KS
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      2000 Mounty
      So, with a crate engine--
      what about the balancer Don? The rotating assembly needs to be balanced to it--
      Tossing an explorer balancer onto a crate engine "might" work, but that is risky--
      Now--about the front cover-water pump and oil pan--

      unless you buy a "stock" 250 hp ford crate engine-all that will need swapped over also-
       
    12. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 17, 2004
      Messages:
      15,846
      Media:
      3
      Albums:
      1
      Likes Received:
      202
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Knoxville, TN
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 Limited AWD
      Yes Jon, the Explorer balancer would need to be sent to them, or pay them to buy one. The front dress is a given, and most crate engines come with little or none of that. The balancer, flex plate, and camshaft are the odd parts to deal with when you look at "Mustang" crate engines.

      Check with Todd, he had a custom balancer made for his Windsor. If that can be done, then the same cost should get one for a 302. I need one with 8 ribs, I think that the stock pulley diameter is okay. Regards,
       
    13. Turdle

      Turdle Will cook for gas Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 16, 2003
      Messages:
      27,771
      Likes Received:
      242
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Humboldt, KS
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      2000 Mounty
      Oh-you mean custom built crate engine--
      My mistake-
      when you say crate engine-I think of calling and getting one off the shelf-
       
    14. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 17, 2004
      Messages:
      15,846
      Media:
      3
      Albums:
      1
      Likes Received:
      202
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Knoxville, TN
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 Limited AWD
      Well they have engines ready, but they all advertise a ton of upgrades. I haven't surfed through a Mustang magazine in years, but they are full of them. I checked out DSS a while ago, I'd like to give them a try.
       

      Elite Explorer members see practically no ads, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments directly to your posts and Media Gallery, create more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.
    15. Dan Whitaker

      Dan Whitaker One fast putty tat Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      December 24, 2001
      Messages:
      7,081
      Likes Received:
      9
      Trophy Points:
      58
      City, State:
      Raytown MO (Kansas City suburb)
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      No Mounty no more.
      I'm thinking now of just buying Jon's used short block, having the crank turned and block line honed. Put in forged rods & pistons an the Comp Cam I have mentioned in other post.

      Then down the road put a charger on & call it good.
       
    16. Dan Whitaker

      Dan Whitaker One fast putty tat Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      December 24, 2001
      Messages:
      7,081
      Likes Received:
      9
      Trophy Points:
      58
      City, State:
      Raytown MO (Kansas City suburb)
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      No Mounty no more.
      I called a machine shop about a mile from my house today and they said they can balance the rotating assembly using a 50 oz balancer. The machinist I talked to said he prefers to take it off the balancer if possible.

      The lady that handles the pricing was out of the office but he said $300 to play safe. He didn't think it would be that much but he didn't want to say it cost x amount & then be more.
       
    17. Spas

      Spas It's all Jack's fault Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      August 27, 2001
      Messages:
      5,490
      Likes Received:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      City, State:
      Freakland, Pa
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      7 Sploder herd
      I lost something in translation here.. Is the 50 oz balancer for a stroked motor or a 302?
       
    18. rocket 5979

      rocket 5979 Resident Gearhead

      Joined:
      April 22, 2002
      Messages:
      4,026
      Likes Received:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      City, State:
      Lake Villa, Illinois
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '03 XLT 4.6
      The tuning on a commbo like this will be pretty straightforward. Nothing much to tuning a N/A vehicle, even if they are cammed and stroked.






      Spas forget that Focus SVT pump. You have a return fuel system and will need a return type of fuel pump. Even if you had a returnless I would recommend against the Focus pump. Just go with a Walbro GSS342 255lph fuel pump. It will support all your N/A needs. Also electric cutouts are DAMN expensive so they could be something reserved for later on in the project instead of right away. Just a few thoughts.
       
    19. Dan Whitaker

      Dan Whitaker One fast putty tat Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      December 24, 2001
      Messages:
      7,081
      Likes Received:
      9
      Trophy Points:
      58
      City, State:
      Raytown MO (Kansas City suburb)
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      No Mounty no more.
      You have to use the stock balancer (which is 50 oz) because the Explorers use D.I.S. and the crank sensor is part of the harmonic balancer.

      All of the after market cranks are 28.2 oz balance be it 302 or 347.
       
    20. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 17, 2004
      Messages:
      15,846
      Media:
      3
      Albums:
      1
      Likes Received:
      202
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Knoxville, TN
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 Limited AWD
      Again, a competent engine machine shop can balance any engine with most balancers, flexplates etc. You must use an Explorer balancer for the OBDII Explorer PCM, but you can obtain a 28oz. Explorer balancer if you have to have one. Regards,

      Here's my custom 28oz. balancer, about $330 from Total Performance. It takes the 94/95 SN95 Mustang crank pulley.
       

      Attached Files:

      Last edited: October 21, 2008
    21. Spas

      Spas It's all Jack's fault Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      August 27, 2001
      Messages:
      5,490
      Likes Received:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      City, State:
      Freakland, Pa
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      7 Sploder herd
      -->being a cheap@$$ here<--

      Color me crazy, but theoretically could I take off the Mustang balancer, weigh it, and have the Explorer one cut down/shaved/whatever-it-is-they-do to match the weight of the old pulley? Wouldn't that work?
       
    22. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 17, 2004
      Messages:
      15,846
      Media:
      3
      Albums:
      1
      Likes Received:
      202
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Knoxville, TN
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 Limited AWD
      The difference in weight between the balancers is nothing for the balance process, the machinist can use either one. You can't bolt either in place of the other on an existing engine, both because of the pulley location and the weight.

      Still, for a machinist who is balancing the assembly, provide them with the required balancer for the front dress and PCM. For the Explorer you must use the Explorer balancer. For a Mustang EECIV engine you must use that type of balancer, which there are dozens to choose from.
       
    23. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 17, 2004
      Messages:
      15,846
      Media:
      3
      Albums:
      1
      Likes Received:
      202
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Knoxville, TN
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      98 Limited AWD
      Spas, are you trying to bolt on an Explorer balancer to an existing engine in vehicle? I want to convert my Lincoln 302(Mustang HO) into an Explorer PCM system. I shall swap engines to convert it all, the front dress with AC pump etc. It is a lot to do, but it's the right way to get the OBDII PCM into the vehicle.
       
    24. Dan Whitaker

      Dan Whitaker One fast putty tat Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      December 24, 2001
      Messages:
      7,081
      Likes Received:
      9
      Trophy Points:
      58
      City, State:
      Raytown MO (Kansas City suburb)
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      No Mounty no more.
      You don't need a bottle Lindsay. :p:
       
    25. Turdle

      Turdle Will cook for gas Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      June 16, 2003
      Messages:
      27,771
      Likes Received:
      242
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      Humboldt, KS
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      2000 Mounty
      Lindsy-
      It wouldn't be a bad idea to have that engine gone thru--considering the source-
      Installing a crate engine as is is putting a lot of trust in the builder-
      who Built your engine?
      now is the time to be sure it is correct. They will need to spin your rotating assembly with the explorer balancer attached--there is no work around for this.
       
    26. Spas

      Spas It's all Jack's fault Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      August 27, 2001
      Messages:
      5,490
      Likes Received:
      0
      Trophy Points:
      46
      City, State:
      Freakland, Pa
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      7 Sploder herd
      I was gonna wait to share this until I actually have the bugger in my little paws, but now you guys have piqued my curiosity :p: It's a Coast High Performance motor, but I'm not 100% sure yet whether this guy bought their 347 kit for a stock block or if this is a StreetFighter bottom end. I'll learn more about it when Savage Wolf and I pick it up from Harrisburg tomorrow. Incidentally, this is how I know that CHP are idjits when it comes to NOT putting parts #'s on their stuff, because I've harassed them a few times trying to get more info on this thing :rolleyes:

      It was set up to run in a '93 Mustang, so I know the front timing chain cover and such have to be swapped over to Explorer stuff... I was just wondering if I could make the Pro-products balancer (that comes with it) work instead of pulling the crank and having it re-balanced with my stock Explorer v8 balancer. But JT has a very valid point: this engine has 1500 miles on it since it was built, I definitely need to take it apart and make sure everything's ok :eek:
       

    Share This Page








    We Support Our Troops!