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Raybestos or Moog Ball Joints?

Discussion in 'Stock 1991 - 1994 Explorers' started by mechjames, January 30, 2010.

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    1. mechjames

      mechjames Elite Explorer

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      I've got to get around to doing my front ball joints, radius arm bushings, and sway bar bushings before this spring.

      Local auto parts store wants about $30 each for lower grade ball joints, and about $60 each for the professional grade MOOG ones.

      I've used MOOG in my Dodge Stratus for Tie Rod Ends before, and they were a perfect fit, high quality. I've also heard that Ford started using MOOG ball joints in the 3rd generation explorers.

      I'm planning to get all my bushings / ball joints through RockAuto. I know Raybestos has good brakes, but I haven't tried any of their other products.

      They have the lower grade ball joints for about $8 each, and the Raybestos Professional Grade ones for about $26. The moog ones start at $38 each.

      I'm not planning to buy any cheap crap, like those "Auto Extra" or "Coni-Seal" ones. Has anyone used the Pro Grade Raybestos with good results?

      I've also noticed they carry the factory Motorcraft ones a little cheaper then the MOOG. and both the Raybesto's ones and Moog are greasable. My Factory ones are not. Thats why they're gone.
       
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    3. Blacksheep Josh

      Blacksheep Josh Slinky+Escalator=Fun

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      MOOG!!!

      I went with the cheaper brand and they broke within 3 months... when I got the MOOG stuff I was impressed just by the quality of them BEFORE they went into the vehicle.

      Suspension and Brakes are the two places I never skimp on money. But as far as balljoints, and someone that's used them, MOOG definitely stand up to everything you can throw at them.
       
    4. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I used to run Moog ball joints, but I didn't have good luck on the last set, and I read about others having some issues.

      I then swtiched to McQuay Norris Extreme duty or Spicer ball joints. The Spicer ones are sold by Napa. Napa carries 2 types.. cheap and good.. The good ones were the spicers.

      ~Mark
       
    5. TooManyTrucks

      TooManyTrucks Member

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      Just fyi...Raybestos is the new marketing name for Spicer front end parts...Good chassis is good..cheap chassis is..well cheap. In Auto Parts you get what you pay for...both moog and Raybestos market a 2nd line of chassis that is of lesser quality...
       
    6. mechjames

      mechjames Elite Explorer

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      We both have a first generation Explorer. What kind of problems did you have with the Moog ones?

      So the higher end Raybestos is the High end Napa Spicer Ball Joints?
       
    7. TooManyTrucks

      TooManyTrucks Member

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      Both NAPA and Raybestos use Affinia Group products... which boxes for Napa. Affinia owns brands like Wix Filters, Raybestos, Spicer, and many more...Federal Mogul owns Moog, Wagner, Precision, Carter...NAPA doesn't make products..they buy and put in their box...Most quality auto parts stores..not big box retailers which try to be the low cost providers..have an economy line as well as the premium line...

      Trust me I have been in the aftermarket for 25+ years..."you get what you pay for" If it is cheap..it has less material, is lower quality and "may" not perform as you would like...there are always better prices, but a $12 ball joint is not the same as a $22 piece...
       
    8. Elessar65

      Elessar65 Well-Known Member

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      I have the Spicer Pro grade upper and lower ball joints in my 2nd gen. I have been very satisfied with them. That being said though, I don't see there being much of a difference between the Moog high quality units and the Spicer ones. As someone else mentioned, you get what you pay for. I have also heard the McQuay Norris Extreme joints are a good product as well.
       
    9. F150hybred

      F150hybred Active Member

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      Another vote for MOOG here. Only thing is, I wold go with the "problem solver" line of MOOG.
       
    10. Anime

      Anime EF YEAH!! Elite Explorer

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      I haven't found the Raybestos joints anywhere to compare them, but the NAPA top-of-the-line joints are pretty good stuff. You can tell everything from the machined metal housing to the seals are better quality over standard joints.

      Something else to consider is the NAPAs have a lifetime warranty on them. This might be the same for the Raybestos. Even at ~$40-60 each, (which isn't much more than that auto parts store is trying to sell you MOOG joints for) they're worth it. They're going to be even more worth it if you keep your Explorer and wear the joints out again and have to replace them, this time for FREE.
       
    11. mechjames

      mechjames Elite Explorer

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      MOOG has a lifetime warranty too.
       
    12. rookieshooter

      rookieshooter Moderator Emeritus

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      No one has mentioned Why one is better? And the reason is, Cold forging vs. Hot forging is the answer.
      Molecular structure is the key. All cheap ones are Hot forged which is a cheaper way to produce a joint over Cold Forged.
      But, Hot forging rearranges the molecules in an arrangement that has less (thinking of the scientific name so I sound cool, but can't come up with one, might have to do with Mayonnase, I dunno.) strength then Cold forged.
      One has to look no further then NASCAR and other major racing associations to see if they run Cold or Hot forged ball joints.
      It's like a high power pistol frame, they use a 50 ton forging tool instead of casting the frame.
      Now last time I heard, Moog still Cold forges.
      And you can best be assured, that if it came from China, it was Hot forged. I don't care what warranty it has.
      When it comes to Ball joints, like the proverbial saying, You get what you pay for.

      See if the word Hot Forged is used like in Moogs link below in making a companies Ball Joints or maybe some other top quality joint producers. Basically Cold forging is stronger then Hot forging when it comes to strength no matter what your making, including just bending a piece of metal.

      http://www.fpdiesel.com/en/Aftermar...ucts/MOOG-SteeringSuspensionParts/BallJoints/

      Now check out the company TooManyTrucks mentioned, also Cold forged.

      http://www.affiniagroup.com/wps/por....content/Products/Products/SteeringSuspension
       
      Last edited: February 5, 2010
    13. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I helped someone change the ball joints on an f-150 (dana 44). He put in Moog Problem solver joints. They look so much better than the regular Moog ones he had years ago. The castle nut is much bigger and the joint looks much stronger (I'm not sure how to describe it)..

      That is just from looks.. I can't see how strong it really is, but I can say problem solver version "looks" much stronger..

      ~Mark
       
    14. kert0307

      kert0307 Well-Known Member

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      I've got the higher end Spicers in my 2nd gen ex and they are holding up well.
       
    15. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      MOOG no friggin way never again

      they used to be great, now they fail quickly on my vehicles, big tires and wheeling = they loosen up

      I switched

      McQuay Norris Extreme Duty ball joints
      These suckers are heavy duty for a stock replacement and the price is competative

      just my 02, I asked Camburg what they use on their TTB long travel trucks....this was the answer I was looking for

      Napa had them for me next day
       
    16. rookieshooter

      rookieshooter Moderator Emeritus

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      As expected they're Cold Forged also like the link below states. Might think along these lines for my Dana 44 build. I'll find out if I can get them local, if not I'll order some.
      Just seen that you said NAPA, that's good, I have one a few miles from me.
      Don't understand about Moog though failing like that. Might have to research this.
      http://www.amazon.com/McQuay-Norris-Extreme-FA1627E-Lower-Joints/dp/B000EIXCYY
       
    17. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      Moog no longer made in USA thats why, or at least what I heard
      I used to swear by them along with everyone else... but they are lucky to last two seasons on my BII anymore and I havent even gotten to wheel that sucker hard in years LOL
       
    18. Verno

      Verno Active Member

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      Go with the Spicer joints. MOOG used to be top of the line but I've never had a NAPA part fail.
       
    19. mechjames

      mechjames Elite Explorer

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      Alright, the concensus is that I'll be using the Spicer/Raybestos/NAPA ball joints, since they are still made in the USA, and cold forged, with a better boot.

      Looking at other forums around the net, Spicer was the way to go. Hopefully under the Raybestos brand, they're just as good. Looks like now we all pay for the MOOGS are the Nascar Sponsorship.

      I used the MOOG problem solver on my 1995 Stratus for Tie Rod Ends, but the auto store had them sitting around for a while, still made in the USA, and looked better then stock.

      I'll try Spicer/Raybestos/NAPA brand for all my bushings now. They're greasable. A big plus from the stock ones.
       
    20. rookieshooter

      rookieshooter Moderator Emeritus

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      Glad Mechjames got this thread going. Was going to order Moog next week, but I'm going to NAPA for some of those Spicer or MN extremes. Leaning towards McQuay Norris ones. Never ran those.
       
    21. 410Fortune

      410Fortune ELITE BRONCO2ERER Moderator Emeritus

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      hold them in your hand next to the moog and see which one you go home with big difference
       
    22. Tony H

      Tony H Well-Known Member

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      I've seen cut cross sections of Moog and NAPA brand Ball joints. I bought teh high end NAPA Ball joints about 100K ago . they are still tight as can be.

      There Brakes however... They do not like the 'X'. The low and middle Grade brakes (SS and TS 7125) have rivets and the Brake material cracks and breaks away from the Metal. The most expensive NAPA Brakes for the 'X' work but they are too expensive and the Brake material is thinner just because they don't compensate for the rivets.
       
    23. rookieshooter

      rookieshooter Moderator Emeritus

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      OK, been thrashing around the webb and it gets a little confusing about all this. Seems these parts dealers change hands as often as I change underwear LOL
      Like TooManyTrucks say the Affinia group owns a few of these Companies including McQuay Norris. And when you go to McQuay Norris and punch in ball joints, it comes up Spicer. So I'm assuming those McQuay Extremes are in fact Spicer but dressed up.
      On the McQuay site that I supplied a link to, it talks about Spicer vs Moog and that Spicer is better, but when I click on it for the numbers...no workie :(
      Also I checked on Spicers site and some NASCAR do run Spicer like Joe Gibbs racing and others. What I'm getting out of this, is that Moog in now made or mostly made in Mexico :rolleyes:
      So the short of it is this, personaly I'm going with Affinia/Spicer/McQuay Norris Extreme ball joints. But now I just can't find who sells them?
      Plus if you go to Contact them at their site, you have to pay. Like a guy said on the Pirate site F%$K That. I was going to ask, Are Spicer and McQuay one in the same.

      And if you go to Raybetos site, it's the same pay call phone #


      The below paragraph is same either on Raybestos or Mcquay Norris. Do you belive that you have to pay for tech support. And they probably don't even talk dirty to ya.


      The link is down below.


      http://www.mcquaynorris.com/wps/por...ites.content/Products/General/spicer_chassis/
       
      Last edited: February 5, 2010
    24. Anime

      Anime EF YEAH!! Elite Explorer

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      Going purely by looks, I'd have to say the Mcquay-Norris and NAPA/Spicer joints are one and the same. The 'regular' Mcquay-Norris and NAPA parts look the same, as do both of their high end joints (blue boot/dust cover, gold color cold forged metal, etc.)

      The big difference is in pricing. O'Reilly/Checker Auto Parts shows $31.99/33.99 for the Mcquay-Norris Xtreme duty joints for a 91-94 Explorer 4x4, Dana 35 Axle. NAPA wants $43-45 for their version of the part. Of course, NAPA pricing varies by store and how well you know the guy at the counter and how nice you are, so it's possible NAPA might be about the same or less, especially if you can get shop pricing.

      If I don't get a discount at NAPA, I'm probably going with the Mcquay-Norris Xtreme duty ones from O-Reilly, assuming they have the same lifetime warranty.


      NAPA's top of the line brakes love my X. I've got NAPA/Rayloc pads, shoes, rotors, and drums on all four corners. The most expensive lifetime pads/shoes aren't too expensive at all. They scrub speed in a hurry, last a long time, have low dusting, and you never have to pay for another set. Their lifetime rotors/drums are the same as the ones with a one year warranty, just doubled or tripled in price to make up for the 2-3 times you might replace them. I just went with the one years, pads and shoes wear alot quicker than rotors and drums. Same with brakes as ball joints, you get what you pay for. I'd never go cheap on brakes, ever.
       
    25. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Now that Orielies owns Checker/Kragen, they are dropping Mcquay norris parts and are now carrying Moog again (at least Moog problem solver ball joints)

      ~Mark
       
    26. Anime

      Anime EF YEAH!! Elite Explorer

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      Well I'm still calling them tomorrow to check prices.

      Maybe they'll have them on closeout. :)
       

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