Discussion in 'Tires & Wheels' started by ExplorerDMB, February 26, 2006.
90/100 ft lbs is within spec for all EXs
Join the Elite Explorers for $20
Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose
fix problems yourself, and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own.
Elite Explorer members see practically no ads, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments in all forums, and Media Gallery,
create more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.
Log in or Sign up to hide adverts.
retorque alum wheels
Retorquing is an issue with any dissimilar metals under severe load stress and high heat. The answer is ideally to loosen and retorque each one at a time in the proper sequence. Cool wheels of course.
Damn good answer
If you don't back-off before re-tqing, you will not know if they're overly tight. I think that any time you want to apply accurate tq, you must first back-off.
I didn't read this whole thread, I'm just going to post my experience...
When I took my '68 cougar to get the new wheels and tires put on (years ago), the tech told me to re-torque them after however long because they are aluminum and they will loosen. I re-torqued them and they were fine ever since.
I finally got my car put back together after having it torn apart (new engine, trans, front end rebuild, power disc brake swap, etc...). I was too lazy/procrastinating re-torqueing the wheels. So a couple weeks ago I was leaving work, walking to my explorer. I saw a lug nut on the ground in the parking lot. I thought it looked just like my lug nuts on my Cougar. So when I got home I looked and sure-as-s**t, I was missing one and several others were way too loose.
Moral of the story if you have aluminum wheels re-torque. If you have steel wheels and value your life, even though they probably won't loosen, re-torque them anyway.
It's not that big of a deal so just do it.
IMHO: Torque in steps........once you are at spec........that's it, LEAVE IT.
Most folks I know who re-build motors, torque in steps...........say the spec says 100 f/lb. The first try could be, say 25% less than the final............second could be, say between the first and final. EXAMPLE: First try 75 f/lb, then 83 f/lb, then finally 100 f/lbs.
If you're gonna re-check stuff............loosen the bolt, then re-torque to spec. I've never seen a head bolt tightened to spec, then re-tightened again to, "check it." The bolt streaches......and IF it wasn't correct the first time......who says it gonna be correct the second time.....or should we try again for a third time, fourth, fifth?
I "think" the spec. has taken into consideration those "thoughts."
BTW.......Haynes says wheel lugs get 100 f/lbs........nothing mentioned about the temp. I always do mine at regular room temps., after it has had time to cool down (not after driving 100 miles). Though, after the wait at the tire shop.....I'll venture to say the the wheel temps have come down to close to normal. If your brakes are too hot to touch.....the wheels are possibly, "too hot."
TIP OF THE DAY........you just purcahsed a new/used car......or just got back from the tire shop........take those wheels off, put anti seize on the lugs and torque to spec. It's a BAD TIME to findout when you have a flat, that the lugs/bolts are rusted togeter or that the DEALERSHIP or the TIRE PLACE used an impact wrench set to some UN-GODLY spec. (those lugs have to come off with the factory supplied tools). Don't ask me how I know.
when i worked as an autotech i always had to drive and retorque all wheels excpet for steel, probly about 1\4 of all the vehicles i retorqued the lugs nuts loosened some. One of our workers didnt retorque the alloys on a grand am and the costomer came back 2 weeks later complaining of a horrible virbration, there was 2 lug nuts holding the tire on with just a few threds, the other studs broke off. That could of been a real disaster.
Saw this first hand today:
My Grandpa's 97 F150 had a blow out a few weeks back. He changed the tire on the side of the road, proceeded to a tire shop, bought a used tire and had it mounted. The guy at the shop put the wheel back on the truck for him.
Fast forward a few hundred miles to today. He was coming to my workplace for a cookout today- felt a vibration, thought it was a U Joint (wtf ??) and kept on driving. Pulled into the parking lot, parked the truck and went in to eat. Someone noticed that his wheel was sitting like \ on the axle. I went and looked, sorry no pictures ( I had my camera phone but completely forgot ) His wheel was being held on by one lug nut and one lug nut only. I lifted the truck off the ground, the lug nut came off with 3/4 of a turn! One of the studs was completely gone, the others were intact. All of the holes in the wheel were egged out to a large hole, the soft aluminum didn't damage the threads on the remaining studs. The rear brakes are drums, and the drum holes were egged out as well.
I stole a lug nut from each of the other intact wheels to get him home and put his spare tire on.
His lug nuts apparently worked loose, he never noticed ( he isn't highly observant anymore ) So check your lug nuts after your (especially aluminum) wheels are removed and replaced.
Here are some pictures from the above post. I replaced the wheel stud and took a few pictures while doing so.
i didn't have this problem with the shop i go to for my balancing and rotations, but i did have the problem when i used mys pare tire.... the lugs kept backing off, and about once a day i'd have to redo them while i was using the spare...
and yes i was doing it in a star rotation...
Thanks guys, seeing that picture does it for me. I will now to this everytime at work and my customers the pop back in for retorque.
Now this could explain why about a year ago one of out good customers wheel came loose on a family trip. He broke 2 lug nuts and had to call a tow truck.
I think it would be worse in winter becasue the rims are warm inside the shop then go stright to -25c
To back off or not when retorquing:
If you don't loosen the nut before retorquing it, your torque wrench is measuring breakaway torque instead of final torque. Breakaway is higher than final, so you can have your torque wrench set to 100 and it clicks before the nut turns even if final torque is only 85 or so. If this sounds like it makes no sense, consider how while braking if a wheel locks up you get less stopping power when the wheel locks than when it's still rolling with the road surface. Loosen the nut then torque it.
Anti-seize or grease on the threads:
The torque specification is for a clean dry nut on a clean dry specially coated stud. A lubricant will give you slightly more clamping force at the same torque, but lack of any coating can give you corrosion and thus a much lighter clamping force than needed. As such, a little corrosion can make your wheel fall off and a little oil can keep your wheel on. The lighter/thinner the oil the better, but anything is better than rust making your wheel fall off. I like to first spray with carburetor cleaner to remove any particles then apply a drop of penetrating oil. Blue loctite would probably be better, but I'd feel silly using it. Grease and anti-seize can cause grit to stick to your threads which isn't good.
Nice post John!
I've personally witnessed wal-mart tire center use anti seize on every stud every time
just adding my personal experience here.. i have aluminum wheels that i installed a month ago and a few days back when i decided to pick someone up from work the truck and the steering wheel would vibrate lightly whenever i reach 85mph.. took out the lug nut wrench as soon as i reached my destination and checked the the nuts were loose.. yep, they were pretty loose.. i mean all 20 lug nuts can be turned with the wrench with ease..
i tightened them all up and drove up to 90mph heading back home and it drove smoothly again.. no vibrations or veering to any side.. i'll probably check them every two weeks or so as to prevent any avoidable accidents from happening..
Ya. we tell people to retorque at 100-150 km. We have a guarantee that the wheels will stay on after retorquing. if you don't come back for a retorque then its your problem. I work at a tire shop btw
I suggest always going to a real tire shop rather than walmart or canadian tire. They are more budget, less quality. (Generally of course, each store is different) Our shop gets alot of people coming from canadian tire to get stuff redone because they screwed it up. So does the Kal-Tire in my town. And parad1mg, checking them every 2 weeks is a really good habit to get into. it only takes a minute and can save alot of money and prevent dangerous tire losses. i re-tighten my wheels, (not actually torque, just tighten to roughly 120 ft/lbs) every 2-3 weeks and before long trips.
ugh, i keep posting then reading back farther and finding more notes to make.
ok, not all wheel lugs torque to 100 ft/lbs, suzukis torque as low as 67-80 ft/lbs where as ford 8 lug trucks torque to 140-160ft/lbs. (160 is really not necessary though.
And tire shops and dealers always use Impact guns except on expensive after market rims. If the tire guy has been trained properly, he will only snug the nut with and impact and tighten with a torque wrench.
When I put my new wheels on, I checked the torque after 300 miles and there were a few lugs that really needed to tightened
I work in a ford dealership in canada and all of us use torque sticks on our impact guns for installing wheels. I personally check my sticks as compared to my torque wrench monthly and have never had a come back or issue with lugs loosening off. Although the super duty trucks f-450 and up call for a lug nut re-torque somewhere around 800km after initial tighten so about 600 miles?