Rear brake job today

[tripplec]

I think what happens retightening squeezes in the wear gap a bit taking the movement out and keeping it from grinding as described above making that noise.
If its an air gun give to her. If not and only a torque wrench see if it moves with around 184ft/lbs if not try higher.

 

[07EddyB]

Checked for play. Seems pretty solid. Didn't have time to tighten the axle nut any though. If it continues tomorrow it will probabuy end up in the shop Thursday.

 

[Explorer_PL]

If no play then the bearing is ok most likely.

 

[07EddyB]

So the Explorer didn't go in the shop today. I drove more yesterday than any other day since the repair because my wife called and her van wouldn't start. So by the time I ran home and grabbed the jump pack and took care of that (when it rains it pours right) I had done a lot of braking. It actually seems to be getting better. I know that doesn't seem right but there it is. It's also not doing it as consistently as before which for me is the real head scratcher.
Anyway, since I have your attention - I do believe my right rear bearing is going. On the way in this morning I was getting more noise on left hand turns than rights. I replaced the right front bearing (with a Timken) about 20K ago - I know it could have gone bad also but odds are more in favor of the rear bearing with 96K on it. Doing a little research I discovered this:
http://www.harborfreight.com/front-wheel-bearing-adapters-63260.html
I was not aware that this existed - don't get hung up on the fact that it's from HF - there are other options out there. I don't so much have an issue with removing the knuckle as I do with either finding someone to press it for me or buying a press to do it myself. Don't really have the room for a press. Also, buying a press I would also have to buy the adapters included in this kit to do it correctly anyway.
Has anyone used this type of kit on the rear bearings on an Explorer before? Keep in mind, I'm in southern Kentucky so not exactly the rust belt. We're pretty spoiled down here - a can of rust penetrant can last an entire year. And I do understand that every situation is different - a 20T press may be too small for some bearings or they may slide right out.
Does it have a fighting chance?

 

[tripplec]

A hole year. Normally used in one go as there are plenty of places to squirt it. Oh well I gather the local shine is flowing fast bottoming out. LOL

Anyway when Explore_PL posted about the bearings and rears being press. I searched online and saw these offerings. Thinking that it should be easy to get it done in advance and just swap out the OEM ones with the buggered bearing. Got to be a garage doing it.
http://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_from...RS0&_nkw=explorer+rear+bearings+2008&_sacat=0

PS: Edit I doubt the bearing requires very much force to go in. Getting the old one out may take more effort. Since you can work on a bench Removing and reinstalling the bearing. The right diameter of collar (pipe or equivalent) and a big hammer will drift it in. There is a big inside C clip which keeps it from coming out. That kit would likely require and air impact gun or one of the Lug nut portable ones sold, some cordless. The way it looks to me anyway.

 

[07EddyB]

Unfortunately our local shine does nothing against rust. It's for the best though - it certainly has a better use! The same with our Bourbon.
I have an impact but from what I've read it's better to use a ratchet or breaker bar to prevent stripping of the threads. Easier to tell if things are moving or not.
From my limited knowledge on the subject I believe the hub and the bearing are pressed out and in separately so no real advantage to the hub/bearing kits beyond just having a new hub.

 

[Explorer_PL]

Those bearings are stuck in there. Those little kits will not do the job in most cases, I would not even bother.
I have one good shop here, they do it for me for $ 50.
I thought about the press, but takes too much room to be used once in a while.
A 6 ton press might work, but 12 t is a minimum sometimes, 20 t preferred.
Also, you can't just bang it there with pipes and hammers. You need to do it in steps:

Press in the new bearing using outer race first.
Use the old bearing as a support and press in the hub having then inner race supported.
Otherwise, you will damage it. I had one of the shops do it for me and the mechanic managed to destroy my new Timken bearing. It had a play when I took it in my hands, an d he said the axle shaft will tighten it...
It was worse than the old one.

Some people (home DIY-er) will put the bearing in the freezer for a night, and then torch heat the knuckle, and grease it. And quickly assemble all together, not sure if it really works.

 

[tripplec]

I am loosing something here. Only had coffee as well. The hub has to spin with the wheel bolted to it. Can't see it pressed into anything. I think I'll have to wait for Explorer_ PL to pop in on this as he's done them a number of times. Going back to that link it seems to make the work easier and prepped for a swap. But maybe something is quite unclear.

 

[Explorer_PL]

Yes, the hub needs to spin

But the hub is pressed into the inner race of the bearing "assembly" that is already pressed into a knuckle - makes sense ?

So just the entire bearing first into the knuckle, then the hub into the ( bearing with knuckle) assembly.

 

[tripplec]

Oh, oh my now thats getting complex.

Hope its not in our cards!!!

 

[07EddyB]

Those bearings are stuck in there. Those little kits will not do the job in most cases, I would not even bother.
I have one good shop here, they do it for me for $ 50.
I thought about the press, but takes too much room to be used once in a while.
A 6 ton press might work, but 12 t is a minimum sometimes, 20 t preferred.
Also, you can't just bang it there with pipes and hammers. You need to do it in steps:

Press in the new bearing using outer race first.
Use the old bearing as a support and press in the hub having then inner race supported.
Otherwise, you will damage it. I had one of the shops do it for me and the mechanic managed to destroy my new Timken bearing. It had a play when I took it in my hands, an d he said the axle shaft will tighten it...
It was worse than the old one.

Some people (home DIY-er) will put the bearing in the freezer for a night, and then torch heat the knuckle, and grease it. And quickly assemble all together, not sure if it really works.

That's one of my fears - that the guy that presses it in screws it up. Let's face it - they have no skin in the game unlike if they were doing the complete job. I would assume that getting the old bearing out would be the hardest part. Seems once that's done (and any corrosion or rust is cleaned up) pressing the new one in would be within the capabilities of the tool. The advantage being the ability to apply straight even pressure. I could see where it might be necessary to remove the knuckle to beat the old one out but wouldn't want to attempt to beat one back in.
I've done the freezer trick on other things before. Don't usually heat though in this type of situation - that hole isn't necessarily going to get bigger - it might get smaller as the surrounding metal expands.

 

[Explorer_PL]

You need to remove the knuckle off the car. How can you use the tool with CV shaft in there ?

 

[07EddyB]

You need to remove the knuckle off the car. How can you use the tool with CV shaft in there ?

That's one reason I'm asking if anyone has any experience with it. Once the hub is removed is there enough play in the shaft to drop it out the back?
I don't know.
If it requires that you remove the CV shaft first then it's losing it's appeal very quickly.

 

[Explorer_PL]

Maybe I am missing something, but all the jobs I did on my rear bearings, I removed the whole knuckle, which actually takes about 15 minutes maybe or less. Just few 25 mm bolts. You need to have it on the bench to work on the ebrake before and after. The CV shaft can stay in the differential.
I understand that the tool should make the job possible without disassembling all that, but I can't picture it that way.

PS> Even if the hub is removed, you still can't take the CV shaft out.

 

[07EddyB]

What work has to be done on the ebrake on the bench. From the brake job I did it would appear that the spreaders would just pull out the back once the shoes were removed. In fact, it kept moving around on me and I had to pay close attention to getting the grooves in the spreaders aligned with the shoes. The ebrake connection moves around really easily with the shoes off.

 

[Explorer_PL]

When you do the bearing replacement, you need to strip the whole assembly to the bare knuckle and hub, remove all brakes. When I did it the first time or two, I would reinstall the knuckle with the new bearing, and then put the ebrake together.
Somewhere on YouTube I found that it's easier to install the ebrake onto the knuckle assembly while still off the car.
So you do not need to do anything on the bench, it's just easier.

 

[07EddyB]

OK - that makes sense. Probably would be easier to deal with the shoes off the vehicle but then you have to disconnect the parking brake.
Well - I hate to jinx myself but the problem appears to be solved. I had an hour before heading to the kids school for a thing last night so I hit it again. I swapped the brake shoes from side to side. Hasn't made the noise since. I have a few theories on this - none are based on scientific fact.

1. The reason I tried it to begin with. The pads are symmetrical so orientation shouldn't matter. The backing plates are mostly symmetrical except for the fact that where the backing plate rests on the guides there are 2 'ears' on one side - 1 ear on the other. The side with 2 ears hooks into the guide and then the caliper rotates down and is bolted on. Now - I had the pads arranged so that the side with 2 ears was on the trailing edge of the rotation of the rotor when moving forward. The side with one ear was down at the leading edge. I surmised that since this side only had one ear resting on top of the guide that it was possible that as the rotor rotated into the caliper that it could be lifting this edge up. Combine that with some play in the slide bolts and noise could result. So swapping the pads side to side put the 2 ear part of the pad at the leading edge of the rotation. Since this side had an ear above and below the guide then it could not lift.
2. All of the above could be a combination of BS and wishful thinking. Although I had a plan and it worked, it simply could have been the fact that I removed both sets of pads and reinstalled them.

I suppose at this point that I could swap everything back and make a definitive determination. But that isn't happening - it works and it's been a long week.

 

[tripplec]

Wow, you did all that in an hour? Amazing!!

 

[07EddyB]

Wow, you did all that in an hour? Amazing!!

Actually less than 30 minutes. I've had, unfortunately, a lot of practice this week.

 

[tripplec]

I might have wheels jacked (one ) and wheel off in that time also getting setup. Not the caliper and rotor either yet etc.

yeah lots of practice eh. Must be much easier than other vehicles I have wrestled with.

My son has the Explorer which I fix for him. Driving his 02 while its up for sale. But I have a Sante Fe AWD and ventured into the E-brake last year. A real disaster it was. The springs so hard to stretch even Samson would groan trying to stretch them. After number attempts and days I gave up and tried driving without e-brakes. Bad move as it damaged the adjustment cable end. So back at it and days later of prying with various tool I got it together. A week later the line seperated of the shoe. Like that not without any lining now. There was no way a person was stretch any spring they use.