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Saginaw power steering pump conversion journey

Discussion in 'Modified 1991-1994 Explorers' started by Maniak, November 6, 2014.

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    1. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Some of you who have been wheeling with me before know that when I twist up the suspension on my 1st gen or after a bit of wheeling my power steering gets weak. I'm talking to the point that I can't move the wheels unless I bring up the rpms and/or rock the vehicle back/forth..

      Example of the issue @ 45 seconds.. (video from TDavis)


      Anyway, I figured the pump was getting weak as it's been in there for over 200k miles. That, and I'm just starting to get a little weep around the pressure hose fitting now.

      My goal is to put in a Saginaw style pump from a mid 80's Ford Van and run a power steering cooler. I figure having a new pump, plus a cooler AND switching to a strong saginaw style pump should help my situation...

      There is really no way without lots of cutting to make a canned ham (saginaw pump with reservoir) fit into a 4.0 ohv power steering bracket.. Because of that, I'm going to run with a remote reservoir.

      Since my parts started to come in and I made a trip to the pull a part over the weekend...

      Pile o parts..
      [​IMG]Saginaw pump parts collection by maniak_az, on Flickr

      Pictured is...
      [
      • P style Saginaw Remote Reservoir Can (#10 AN fitting)
      • Saginaw pump to ford bracket adapter (for 5.0 motor)
      • Saginaw power steering pump from a 1984 Ford van
      • remote reservoirs
      • new pressure hose from a '84 ford e-150 (not pictured)

      The taller reservoir is from a 1997 Intrepid and the shorter Metal can is from a 2000 astro van. I'm leaning towards using the Intrepid reservoir since the return is lower and there is less chance I will uncover the return line. My research suggests that an uncovered return line can introduce bubbles into the reservoir.

      I still need my cooler BUT I'm going to set this up before I buy the cooler to make sure everything else works.

      If things go as planned, I'll start to take things apart this weekend/upcoming week.

      More to come..

      ~Mark
       
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    3. Blue91Ex

      Blue91Ex Active Member

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      Just out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say "uncover the return line"? Like is it supposed to be tucked in somewhere where crap cant get flung up into it or something?
      Sounds like a really interesting project!
       
    4. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      The return fluid when it comes back into the reservoir should be in/under fluid. By uncover I mean the return fluid is going into the air and splashing down to the fluid.

      You can see on the Astro Van reservoir, how high the return line is. If I put the truck at an extreme angle it is possible for the fluid to be below that point on the reservoir, hence the returning fluid will be coming back into the reservoir above the fluid and then splashing down into the fluid, causing bubbles.

      ~Mark
       
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    5. Possumz

      Possumz Member

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      I want to see more please. This is exactly what i want to do to mine but I never thought of the remote reservoir. I used to have the link to modify the bracket for the upgrade. Cant wait to see the rest. Thanks for sharing your ideas.
       
    6. BKennedy

      BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Subscribing. Sure would be a lot easier if the old Saganiw pumps were still available.
       
    7. Blue91Ex

      Blue91Ex Active Member

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      Oh okay that makes sense, very interesting, thanks for explaining it haha. I hope all goes well with the swap and look forward to seeing your progress!
       
    8. Pollarican

      Pollarican Active Member

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      I've been wanting to do this for years. I even made a prototype bracket to run the self contained van pump, but never got around to remaking it with exact measurements that wouldnt throw the belt.

      Keep brainstorming - This is a very worthwhile upgrade to the 4.0.

      http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=399052

      I scrapped the original design because I wanted to recess the head mounting portion of the Sag bracket to copy the style of the stock AC/ PS bracket. The stock bracket is supported by that little stamped steel supplemental bracket. I believe that If I ran my first attempt at the Sag bracket, it would have put excessive strain on the head and possibily caused problems down the line.
       
    9. malohnes

      malohnes Active Member

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      Subscribing!
      I just replaced my pump, reservoir and hoses with all stock replacements for my weak ass original pump and would love yo know how this turns out as my rig gets taller and driven more on trails.
       
    10. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I picked up some more parts over the weekend..

      • 5/8" oil resistant (300 psi) hose
      • 3/8" oil resistant hose (300psi transmission hose)
      • #10 AN to 5/8 hose fitting
      • borrowed the pulley puller from the neighbor

      and, most importantly, I got my explorer back from my sis in law. She was using it while I/neighbor were working on electrical issues on her mini van.

      Next step, test fit the pump/remote reservoir can on a spare power steering bracket I have in the pile or spare parts.

      I'm going to hold off on the power steering cooler until I know things will work. Once I have it working I'm going to replace that single piece of power steering line that runs in front of the engine cross member with a small stacked plate cooler.

      ~Mark
       
    11. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I spent the day working on this today....

      It isn't even close to a PNP setup.. The sawzall got a bunch of use, as did a 3" air cutoff tool. The day even included a trip to the junk yard, and there will be another one tomorrow..

      First thing.. There is TONS of meat that has to come off the bracket to get this to fit...

      Final bracket configuration after clearancing.
      [​IMG]Ford 4.0 OHV modified bracket by maniak_az, on Flickr

      The left edge got over-trimmed.. that was the first "ooops" of the day.. but it isn't that bad of an oops.

      To help cut down on how much I was pulling off the bracket, I trimmed the PSC 5.0 adapter some... I wanted to leave the ridges in the bracket intact, or as close as I could.
      [​IMG]Modified PSC 5.0 adapter by maniak_az, on Flickr

      I did have to notch the bracket for the remote reservoir fitting too. If I didn't use a remote system there would be very little of the bracket left..
      [​IMG]5/8" AN to Hose adapter by maniak_az, on Flickr

      Now for some random thoughts of the days issues.

      1. I bought a pump without a reservoir. That means I didn't have the fitting that goes on the bypass valve. That is the fitting the hose screws into. I picked up a couple of them today from the yard. One from a 1980 e-250 and the other was from a 1994 van.
      2. I'm still working on which hose to use, but I can say the factory hose will connect, but it doesn't seem to want to route. I have a ps hose from a van too, I think I'm going to use that one. I'm trying to stick with OEM type parts instead of custom hoses
      3. The latest problem and what stopped me today and is causing a junk yard trip tomorrow is the pulley from the explorer pump has a shaft size of "around" 5/6 (.685" I think) but the saginaw pump from the van has a shaft size of "around" 3/4" (.758 I think). While the pump is the same from 1980 to 1996, the pulley I need appears to be from 1990 to 1996.

      I left a ps pump under a van at the yard today (one I took the fitting off of) and I should be able to pull the pulley somewhat easily. Worst case, I can buy the pulley for $40-ish but I'd rather spend less and use a yard pulley.

      More updates as I get farther.. which will be soon as the Explorer is stuck on my neighbors lift right now.. We put it on the lift and pulled the tires so we could get it closer to the ground. It was just too tall to work on sitting at ride height.

      ~Mark
       
    12. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      It runs... and works and is really quiet...

      Quick update while I can..

      A couple shots... It isn't pretty but I'll probably update the bracket later.. There is very little height available above the pump so I had to use the shorter of the 2 reservoirs I grabbed from the yard and mounted it right above the 5/8" hose output. I'd say it is maybe 1" away.

      [​IMG]Ford Explorer Saginaw pump conversion by maniak_az, on Flickr

      [​IMG]Ford Explorer Saginaw Pump Conversion - side view by maniak_az, on Flickr

      Here is the hose I ended up using. It is from a 1984 Ford van and fits the explorer steering box.
      [​IMG]Hose used for Explorer Saginaw pump conversion by maniak_az, on Flickr

      You can see I had to run the line forward and then take it back towards the pump. I had to take out a little of the angle on the line right before it went into the steering box, but otherwise I didn't mess with the line. You can see my oops on the bracket... I cut a little far...
      [​IMG]Ooops and routing of the pressure hose. by maniak_az, on Flickr

      I had to buy a new pulley instead of getting it from the yard.. More money but I needed to cut down on time. I used a Dorman 300-020 which is a metal pulley. I "think" the OEM one from ford was plastic

      Here is the final list of parts I used.... with some extra info that should help others...
      Version 1 of my conversion had issues. See Post 14 for the updated list of Parts for my Rev 2.

      1. Pump: 1980-1996 Ford Van
      2. fitting: I bought a new-rebuilt pump without a reservoir. That means it doesn't come with the fitting the hose connects on on the back of the pump. I took one from a 1994 Van.
      3. Pulley: 1990-1996 Ford Van (6 groove .75-ish bore) DORMAN 300-020 - Installed with 13/16" space between the high spot of the bracket and the lip of the pulley. It is only on the shaft about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way through but it is a metal pulley so I'm no worried.
      4. Reservoir: 2000 Chevy Astro van
      5. Remote Reservoir Can: From PSC: -6AN fitting for Ford P style Saginaw
      6. Pressure Hose: 1984 ford e-150
      7. Reservoir hose: -6AN to 5/8" hose adapter with 5/8 transmission Hose (300psi rating) - used less than 6" of hose
      8. Return line: 3/8" transmission hose (300psi rating) - used less than 3 feet
      9. Reservoir Bracket: I used a piece of scrap metal roof that I bent/cut and drilled through. It isn't pretty but it is holding the reservoir in just the right spot.
      10. Belt: I had to go up a size in the best BUT I was running a smaller belt already because I'm running a smaller (2"-ish) alternator pulley. You may or may not need to change belts.

      From my later research you may be able to use an Astro Van remote reservoir Can on the pump along with the actual reservoir instead of buying that remote reservoir pump can from PSC... I'm not positive though, but it is worth a shot.

      For bracket modification I used a sawzall and a 3" air cutoff wheel..

      Hopefully this helps someone else.. at least for the parts list of what to use to convert the ford power steering pump on a 4.0 ohv to a saginaw style pump.


      ~Mark
       
      Last edited: December 28, 2014
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    13. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Update...

      At idle and from here to the mailbox (2 miles away), things are fine....

      HOWEVER, If I head past the mailbox and down the road another 7 miles it starts to get noisy. It appears the Astro Van reservoir is either not big enough and/or the baffle system (is there one?) isn't enough. If you look in the reservoir while you hold the rpms up at 2000 its is really agitating.

      I have a PSC 8.25" reservoir (with filter) coming and we'll see if that takes care of it. I would have preferred to use the Astro van reservoir as it is $150 cheaper but I want it to be right...

      Before the system started to have issues it was a much lighter feel which I haven't had since we ran stock-30" tires.

      I should have the new reservoir this next week, assuming Poly Performance can actually ship things (they closed on Friday, thanks to all the weather issues in Ca).

      ~Mark
       
    14. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I finished replacing the Astro Van reservoir with the PSC reservoir.

      Here are a couple shots of it.. Video is still converting...

      [​IMG]Ford Power Steering to Saginaw p-pump conversion - Revision 2 with PSC Remote Reservoir by maniak_az, on Flickr

      [​IMG]PSC 8.25 -12 AN / -8 AN remote reservoir on saginaw pump conversion by maniak_az, on Flickr

      I took it on a longer test drive today (about 10 miles each way) and the power steering pump was quiet the entire time.

      Once I have the video upload you will be able to see the problem I ran into and that the PSC remote reservoir solves it.

      That remote reservoir is pretty big. I have it less than 1" from the hood and it is still a little lower than I'd like it to be but since the hose is really short I'm ok with it having to flow upwards a little.

      Hopefully I'll be able to post the video link tonight... My first video conversion failed as it ended up as a low resolution (360) video with all kinds of artifacts.

      ~Mark
       
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    15. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Video is up...



      I've now driven it about 30 miles and the pump stays quiet and the steering effort is reduced over what the old style pump had during the entire drive. When I had the Astro Van reservoir the steering effort would stiffen up after 5-6 miles down the 2 lane at 55mph.

      Here is the list o parts I have in there now in my rev 2 version of my Saginaw power steering pump conversion.

      1. Pump: 1980-1996 Ford Van
      2. Pump Pressure fitting: I bought a new-rebuilt pump without a reservoir. That means it doesn't come with the fitting the hose connects on on the back of the pump. I took one from a 1994 Van.
      3. Pulley: 1990-1996 Ford Van (6 groove .75-ish bore) DORMAN 300-020 - Installed with 13/16" space between the high spot of the bracket and the lip of the pulley. It is only on the shaft about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way through but it is a metal pulley so I'm no worried.
      4. PSC 8.25" Reservoir with -12 & -8 AN fittings.
      5. Remote Reservoir Can: From PSC: -6AN fitting for Ford P style Saginaw
      6. Pressure Hose: 1984 ford e-150
      7. Reservoir hose: -12AN to 5/8" hose adapter fittings with 5/8 transmission Hose (300psi rating) - I used a 90 degree and a straight AN to hose adapter.
      8. Return line: -8AN to 3/8" transmission hose (300psi rating)
      9. Reservoir Bracket: I used some 3/8" bolts and made some spacers out of some 1/2" tubing to space the PSC bracket up.
      10. Belt: I had to go up a size in the best BUT I was running a smaller belt already because I'm running a smaller (2"-ish) alternator pulley. You may or may not need to change belts.
      11. Fluid: I use Mobile 1 Synthetic ATF as my power steering fluid It was the only fluid that ever ran quiet with the old style Ford power steering pump.

      PSC makes good stuff BUT their tech people are somewhat lacking in customer service (what they say, no idea about what they do).

      They forcefully told me that the Astro Van reservoir "IS NOT A RESERVOIR" and it felt like there was attitude in the statement by the way it was said. Well, by definition, it is reservoir since it is not only where you fill the power steering but where the fluid resides that the pump uses. If it wasn't a reservoir there wouldn't be a return line there. Now, if they said it wasn't a good reservoir and said it doesn't have what is needed to keep the fluid from aerating (good baffle system) that would be a different story. Also, I got the impression that you "must" install it higher than the pump and that you cannot have any bends in the lines by how he explained where I must install the reservoir. Well, I then looked at some "kits" I can buy and once I saw one of the kits came with a 90 degree -AN fitting I figured the tech guy just didn't want to leave his box of how to do installs. I'm using a 90 degree fitting and I kept my hose length as short as possible.

      If they were to give guidelines, even if they have to make then strongly suggested instead of saying you "must install it this way" I'd have a better impression of PSC. Not all of us have tons of room under the hood (or no hood) to install the parts in the most optimum way.

      Ok, enough rambling...

      I like my conversion and will try it out around here a few times before the Truckhaven run in a few weeks, But so far, I like this conversion.

      ~Mark

      P.S. Anyone reading these? I hope they are helping someone.. At least have a list of parts...
       
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    16. RockRanger

      RockRanger Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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      I'm reading it. Interested in seeing how it holds up. It will be on my todo list here soon.
       
    17. RockRanger

      RockRanger Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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      Updates? How is this holding up for you?
       
    18. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      It's been working great. I don't even notice it's there, as in I don't have to do anything special, it's just the power steering on the truck...

      The lighter steering is nice.. Even with the steering stabilizer it's almost like a old 70's buick roadmaster feel.

      On the last trip I did have the truck in a position with most of the weight on the front tires (was nose first) and I couldn't turn the wheel at idle but I could if I cranked on the wheel hard and held the rpms up some. I don't think I would have been able to turn the wheels at all without the saginaw upgrade.

      I would like to move the reservoir so it's not mounted on the fender since the motor moves and the fender doesn't. If I lose a motor mount I could see it causing issues. It's not high on my list since what I have works well...

      ~Mark
       
    19. WormsExplorer

      WormsExplorer Elite Explorer

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      I want to do this with mine. Looks awesome.
       
    20. josh40601

      josh40601 Elite Explorer

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      Mark, thanks for the write-up on this. I will be doing this mod ASAP on the explorer, but will be using a GM truck pump. Thanks to Bray D for finding this thread and sending it to me. Hopefully this bump will help others.

      How's it holding up now? It's been a couple of years since the last update
       
    21. Maniak

      Maniak Moderator-Stock 91-94 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      It's been holding up well over the last 15k or so miles.. (I'm only driving 5k miles per year on it nowadays).. As far as reliability etc. it's just like the stock system. I don't even think about it but every time I hop in and drive I notice how light the steering is.. I also got rid of the steering stabilizer years ago as I smacked it on a few rocks and even ripped the mount right off a tie rod once..

      I never did fix/change/re-route the return hose so it still has that little kink in it but it's not affecting anything. Since the reservoir is mounted to the body I didn't want the hose tight since the motor moves some.

      I also never grabbed another pulley to cut the end off and weld to the existing pulley to give the shaft more material the be pressed onto so the pulley is still pretty far out on the shaft but it hasn't moved and I doubt it ever will.

      I went with the Ford Van pump because from the charts I saw on Pirate4x4 the Ford pumps had more PSI (1300 psi IIRC) stock than any other Saginaw pump, including the GM ones. Also, by using the Ford pump I can use an off the shelf high pressure hose.

      ~Mark
       
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    22. Glasken

      Glasken Elite Explorer

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      Thanks for posting this write-up and parts list. I plan on doing this conversion soon on my rig as I have managed to kill both my steering gear and PS pump...again. That pump is louder than my engine most of the time and is always struggling with 35s.

      I'll let you know if I am successful!
       
    23. Four0Sport

      Four0Sport Elite Explorer

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      Thanks for the informative post and inspiration, Maniak!

      20180121_113436.jpg 20180121_113449.jpg
       
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    24. yostyexplorer94

      yostyexplorer94 1st Gen Mod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I noticed that my 1994 explorer and my spare 1998 ranger 4.0 engine have a slimmer power steering pump bracket with a cut out to remove the pump without taking the pulley out. 20180211_022450.jpg

      This bracket is much thicker and was removed from a 1992 explorer.
      20180211_020856.jpg
       
    25. BKennedy

      BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I tried to remove the pump without pulling the pulley on my 94. Found out the bolts are too long to get the pump out without removing the pulley first.
       
    26. yostyexplorer94

      yostyexplorer94 1st Gen Mod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Good info, thanks. I looked closer at the picture and see why! :banghead: I never had to remove one yet.
       

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