Dismiss Notice



Register Today It's free! This box will disappear once registered!

T3 T4 Hybrid Turbo OHV

Discussion in 'Need for Speed!' started by Caejxr, May 11, 2015.


  • Searches ExplorerForum.com
    1. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      Thank you @boominXplorer. That information will change my thought process for a solution then.

      I'm running into the upper limits of what I see as being comfortable or a safe margin of error with the cooling system now that I fixed the AC. The extra heat the AC adds in normal driving in these low 100 temps puts me around 210 to 220 for ect. I haven't checked it on a data log yet but I suspect it's higher than the gauge I have shows me it is. Prior to the AC fix I was running around 190 to 200 for ect. It's not even the hot part of the summer yet.

      On another note, my camshaft finally shipped. The driving force for the engine build will soon glare at me from a shelf every day until all the parts and heads are built/staged and ready to be installed.
       
    2. Support EF

      Join the Elite Explorers for $20

      Explorer Forum has probably saved you that much already, and will continue to save you money as you learn how to diagnose fix problems yourself, and learn which modifications work without having to experiment on your own. Elite Explorer members see practically no ads, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments directly to your posts and Media Gallery, create more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.


      to hide adverts.
    3. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      Well I found a 422 cam on my door step today so that was a pretty awesome thing to come home to. I ordered a bunch of valve retainers last night and a hand full of brass guides the same size as the OEM steel ones (inner diameter within .007" which I am ok with since it would be simple to bore it out just a bit if required) they were listed as for a 64 Chevy c10 3.8 L6 and just so happened to come up when I searched the dimensions.

      SmithBrothers got back to me today that a set of (12) 5.550" length non-hardened 5/16x.049 rods with 3/16 ball ends would run 86$ and some change before shipping.

      The paperwork in the box for the cam stated along with the compcam springs their lifters need to be used as well in order to have the warranty. Unless I missed this in reading I've been doing I hadn't expected to read that and am wondering what lifters everyone is running with their successful installs?
       
      Last edited: June 15, 2016
    4. malohnes

      malohnes Active Member

      Joined:
      August 8, 2009
      Messages:
      909
      Likes Received:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      18
      City, State:
      SE Alaska
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '91 xl m5 4x4
      Hey, may I ask why non hardened push rods?
       
    5. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      Their literature said their nonhardened rods are good for up to 400lb springs. The 988 are around 230. Hardened go up to 700lb springs.
       
    6. malohnes

      malohnes Active Member

      Joined:
      August 8, 2009
      Messages:
      909
      Likes Received:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      18
      City, State:
      SE Alaska
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '91 xl m5 4x4
      Hmmm, good to know. I understood the stock ones were soft leading to the valvetrain clatter we experience.
       
    7. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      I imagine hardened rods would chew up new stock rockers faster. Looking around I see a lot of worn rockers and collapsed lifters leading to clatter. Hardened everything would be good for longevity as added "insurance ". I just wouldn't go hardened on one thing and not on another.

      Sent comp cam an email trying to verify if the listed roller lifters are the same height as stock since that's not listed and retailers list them as being for the 4.6l.
       
    8. malohnes

      malohnes Active Member

      Joined:
      August 8, 2009
      Messages:
      909
      Likes Received:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      18
      City, State:
      SE Alaska
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '91 xl m5 4x4
      You know, that is a good point.

      I think there is a fellow in Tacoma that flame hardens stock ones. That might be an option to pursue. Do a search for death rattle, you should find the thread on it. I'm stuck with super slow wifi on my smart phone otherwise I'd find it for you.

      IIRC,on the Need for Speed forum there is a thread JD is in that spoke about those rockers...
       
      Last edited: June 16, 2016
    9. malohnes

      malohnes Active Member

      Joined:
      August 8, 2009
      Messages:
      909
      Likes Received:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      18
      City, State:
      SE Alaska
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '91 xl m5 4x4
      Oh, you asked about pics of my W/M system. I don't have pic's but its a stage 2 Nitrous Express system for NA. I have a 7 gallon tank in the cargo area and a twin nozzle mod spraying directly into the plenum between the vaccum tree and the IAC.I tried the stock 225 nozzle but it was WAY too big, i'm using the smallest 060 nozzle and its perfect for NA. I can go easy 1000 miles between tank fill-ups. I use 100% methyl hydroxide, (fuel line antifreeze) and water, mixed 50/50.
       
      Last edited: June 30, 2016
    10. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      So, my thoughts in regard to the pushrods, lifters, and the cam are as follows:

      If I take the difference in the seat height of the lifters into account it should give me the pushrod length I can use with the compcam roller lifter v. the OEM roller lifter.

      Fact. Comp cams requires their lifters are used to keep their warranty on the cam.
      Fact. All comp cams available lifters for the 4.0l v6 explorer are not the OEM height and only 1 is a hyd roller type.

      So, after sending many emails and receiving few replies some great folks were able to get me the figures for the seat heights of the OEM and Compcams lifters from the manufacturer technical drawings.

      The stock lifters have a seat height of 1.699".
      The Comp Cam hydraulic roller lifter (851-12) is at 2.60" seat height.
      Comp cam's lifter is .901" taller
      Both share the same .874" diameter.

      If the acceptable push rod length with the 422 cam and the OEM roller lifter is 5.550"

      Using Compcams hyd roller lifter should require a shorter pushrod at 4.649"


      I guess the only concern I have for consideration if anyone has the answer is the lifter bore. Will it be tall enough for the extra length of the lifter?
       
      Last edited: June 21, 2016
    11. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      Back from vacation. Decided I'll be going with an OEM design roller lifter to sick with the tried and true method here.
       
    12. malohnes

      malohnes Active Member

      Joined:
      August 8, 2009
      Messages:
      909
      Likes Received:
      12
      Trophy Points:
      18
      City, State:
      SE Alaska
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '91 xl m5 4x4
      I think thats a wise decision. OEM style lifter sounds just fine to me. However, I would would think that if there was an issue with the fitment of the Comp Cams lifter, they would mention it. Like, their 422 cams require the 988 springs... That said, custom push rods are not a high dollar item in the bigger picture. You might PM JD4242 for more info on his set up for reference.
       
    13. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      Ordering the heads next. A decent set of lifters is going to run me nearly the same or more than the bare heads. That's a hard pill to swallow.
       
    14. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      October 15, 2008
      Messages:
      10,348
      Likes Received:
      107
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      va beach
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      92explorer&94 ranger
      You can use stock retainers and locks with the 988s..install height of 1.6 so the head spring seat AND the valve seal stem needs to be milled..stock lifters are fine and NO a taller lifter would not work,it would come out the bore to far and hit the head..the head prevents you from removing the lifters fyi..also i believe the 4.6 has oil holes for the pushrods,4.0 does not

      You can keep you stock lifters just clean them and check for broken springs..here is a video



       

      Elite Explorer members see practically no ads, can add their own profile photo, upload photo attachments directly to your posts and Media Gallery, create more private Conversations, and more. Join Today. Your support is greatly appreciated.
    15. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      October 15, 2008
      Messages:
      10,348
      Likes Received:
      107
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      va beach
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      92explorer&94 ranger
      Last edited: July 31, 2016
    16. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      @jd4242, as always your experienced advice is appreciated.

      I was actually just shopping the Internet for a set of the HD felpros. I took a break on parts ordering for the last 2 months or so to finish paying for the wedding. Now that's done I've got some spending money back and I'll definitely get back to accumulating what I need to finish the project.

      I rotated the intercooler so it sits flush with the front cross members to get the airflow it needs. The only problem is its too small for the amount of heat coming off the road in the 110 degree Temps. Im going to suck it up for now since it's just right for everything cooler which is where that truck will spend more of its lifetime. Timing in the tune pulls out so it doesn't detonate with how hot the intake air is but it's enough to make it run like NA when it does.
       
    17. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      So after talking to Smithbrothers on the phone placing an order they recommend hardened rods despite the ratings of the nonhardened rods due to the increased ramp up of the new cam. I went with their advice cost came to about 106. Called SI and their sending the stainless valves today so I should have them tomorrow.

      Still need bare heads, hardened rockers, studs, spring seats, hardened valve seats and maybe lifters
       
    18. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      October 15, 2008
      Messages:
      10,348
      Likes Received:
      107
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      va beach
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      92explorer&94 ranger
      They should have known exactly what to give you if you told them 422 or 410 cam and 4.0

      You wont find hardened rockers and DO NOT REPEAT DO NOT go with delta cam rockers..sealed power or mellings

      You dont need spring seats..you need to mill the spring seats and valve seal stem..

      You also dont need hardened valve seats just exhaust seats and honestly if your not running a ton of boost you wont need them..my current motor is 11:1 with 10 lbs and nitrous and i dont have them

      You will need the broonze guides for all valves tho..
       
    19. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      I've got bronze guides and a few extra from Mahle already, they'll probably have to be cut down in length but otherwise their Oem size.

      No way I'll be touching delta rockers I've read way too much bad news on them not to mention the ones you had grenade on you @jd4242.

      Also have the HD felpro headgasket kit on the way a mechanical boost contoller the valves and rods I mentioned earlier and the 988 springs. Trying to get the bare heads ordered but their web order is down the last few days or something so I'm going to try and call during business hours. Still some way to go and lots of parts to get gathered up until I'll have everything on hand but once I do I'll take the heads into the machine shop in town get that done and start the build.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    20. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      Anyone else notice that UPS is ALWAYS forgetting packages at their facilities that are supposed to be delivered to them?? I really wish they'd quit playing soccer with my packages.

      On a serious note, I swear it's like every 4th package,no joke. I'm beginning to loose confidence in their services with how much I use them.
       
    21. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      @jd4242, do you mind elaborating on the "valve seal stem needs to be milled" That one is throwing me off a bit. Did you mean the valve guide?
       
    22. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      October 15, 2008
      Messages:
      10,348
      Likes Received:
      107
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      va beach
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      92explorer&94 ranger
      Well the guides will need to be trimmed also when he installs them,but there is a nipple/stem the seals fit over ...wish i had a picture. .the seal fits over the guides and nipple then butts up basically to a "seat""..that seat needs to be milled down some as well as the tip..if you just mill the ""tip"" of that nipple the seal has very little room to fit on it and can/will pop off..you mill the seal seat also so the seal fits down farther..the retainer will hit the tip i guarantee it,ive had it happen even though by measurement spec it shouldn't. .

      First set we did we didnt mill that and this happened.

      [​IMG]
       
    23. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      That's what I thought you were talking about but I wasn't certain, thank you. I'm really hoping that learning from your experience makes this go very smooth.
       
    24. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      October 15, 2008
      Messages:
      10,348
      Likes Received:
      107
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      va beach
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      92explorer&94 ranger
      Yea sorry im not the best explainer..im so use to using words like thing maboob and dirty words..lol hard to explain without pictures for to someone who personally hasn't seen it yet..

      But yea ive done about everything to the ohv and made plenty of mistakes. I credit this forum and its users for all my knowledge. .

      O ps may want to look into a underdrive pulley also down the road or if founds allow it.its not cheap but definitely helps with mpg and some power..it uses the same crank pulley as the 4.0 sohc mustang use fyi,also need a over drive for alternator. Everything else will be fine
       
    25. Caejxr

      Caejxr Active Member

      Joined:
      September 21, 2009
      Messages:
      403
      Likes Received:
      47
      Trophy Points:
      38
      City, State:
      My explorer eats money
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      '97 Turbo 4.0 OHV
      Been kicking the pully idea around for some time and I may just add it to the list since so much is coming out/off for the build anyway.

      @jd4242 You wouldn't by chance have the depth they machined the head down for the valve seals to set proper do you.?

      I'm looking into SI for custom guides that measure to OEM specs they have some that are pretty close(ID at .0003 larger) but too fat at .5023 v .4800.
      Why? Well because I measured the ones I have on hand and compared them to the valves and their actually .50 wide v.480 so nearly .02 too fat which would require more machining of the head to fit. Worse, the inner diameter is too loose at nearly the same .02 over which is significant and flat out just won't work with the valves. That much space will wreck the valves and the head. I'll just sell um on ebay or something since they fit c10 pickups among other things and who knows where the receipt got to. I should have taken more time to check the actual product catalog from the manufacturer... but it's like 10 or 15 bucks I'll make it back later or something.
       
    26. jd4242

      jd4242 Elite Explorer

      Joined:
      October 15, 2008
      Messages:
      10,348
      Likes Received:
      107
      Trophy Points:
      93
      City, State:
      va beach
      Year, Model & Trim Level:
      92explorer&94 ranger
      Its not much but i do not off hand.like i said by spec it shouldn't need to be trimmed but definitely have him take some off..

      The guides are going to be custom, cant remember which ones my guy starts with,i can ask him today when i drop these 4.6 dohc heads off
       

    Share This Page








    We Support Our Troops!