The 5R55E and the infamous 2-3 shift flare issue

[Chris Saunders]

'97 UN XLT - 248,000kms - Trans Issues...?

Gents,

G'day from Australia...

I will admit that a lot of this post has gone completely over my head, but I think that what I have read may equate to the serious issues that I am currently experiencing - if so, any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Here's the cold, hard facts:

:thumbdwn:Transmission appears to be 'releasing' all drive and coasting whilst continuously emitting a very high rpm / electronic / mechanical sound. Sound emits from the area underneath the car that indicates transmission / transfer case. Stepping on the accelerator generally sees the car pick up drive again and the sound ceases. Initial (knee-jerk and well mis-informed) problem-solving saw me fit a brand new shift motor - how silly of me. It was inevitably not going to be that simple...

:thumbdwn:The car appears to be struggling to identify which gear that it should be in. An example; cruise control set at 100kph, slight hill, engine and speed both slow to a point where the rpm drops to about 1200 - almost stall - before it decides to shift to a lower gear.

:thumbdwn:Extremely hard shifting at low rpm - banging into gear. High rpm is slightly smoother but shifts with very high rpm. Furthermore, the shift from 'P' to 'D' or 'R' clunks heavily as it engages.

Now, here's the real kicker!

I have, since fitting the shift motor and cursing blindly, had the car at the local transmission specialist. He diagnosed as requiring a rebuild, and he would sort a rebuilt transfer case to fit also. This done, he proudly handed the car back - no change. Not a difference. In fact, the problem didn't just persist, it got worse - more consistent.

Since that time, we have bounced through many hoops. The following details what has been done:

:thumbdwn:Full rebuild of transmission - TWICE, YES TWICE.
:thumbdwn:Rebuilt transfer case.
:thumbdwn:Brand new chain drive for the transfer case.
:thumbdwn:Reconditioned valve body for the transmission.
:thumbdwn:All oil lines within the transmission cleared of blockages - TWICE.

The mechanic is now rebuilding a second transmission - at no extra cost to me, thank the lord - for fitment once complete.

At this stage, the mechanic and I are both scratching our heads. We are hoping that somebody here can help us with a little guidance.

I am thinking one of two things: (1) Oil pressure issue that won't allow the transmission to positively shift, or (2) A TPS or other road speed / throttle position sensor that is faulty and is not sending the correct info to the transmission control unit.

Your thoughts, however minor they appear to be, would be most appreciated.

Especially considering that the US is home to many more Explorer drivers and mechanics than back-country NSW.

Yours, in anticipation,

Chris.

 

[bosanci28]

ok,so today i took my aviator back to the ammco transmission so they can complete the diagnostic check,,they need to take the oil pan down and inspect for anything in the pan,,then they will call me with any findings,,then they said that will recomand a change of fluid /filter and adjusting the bands for 159$
then test drive it to see if the problem is still there...

no let say that the problem is still there what you guys think,,should i do a fluid pressure check? (remember there where no codes,,so my solenoids are ok,i think) before they will tell me something else...

thanks
i appreciate your guys advise and help.

 

[*TopDownCar*]

Trans Slipping in 05 Mountaineer AWD with 5R55S

Hi Everyone, I found your site while searching for an issue that I've just experienced last night. I'm unsure my symptoms are exactly what others are having and I hope someone here can help me ...

At about ½ throttle and somewhere during the up shift (i'd guess between 2-3) - the engine races and the truck is coasting, it feels like the RSC is on. Once the RPM’s lower the truck works as expected. I can duplicate this condition but it seams to shift fine manually and when I drive it like I‘m out for a Sunday cruise.

The graphs shown in the rebuild diary show a little slip as where I’m having complete disengagement. Are the 5R55S’s experiencing the same 2-3 flare as the 5R55E do? How can I determine if it’s the PCM or the VB? No $ to Throw at it - Need to fix this on the first attempt any all help (suggestions) will be greatly appreciated. - Thanks

 

[BrooklynBay]

Welcome to this forum! How many miles does it have? It might be related to the solenoid block if you have around 60K miles.

 

[*TopDownCar*]

Trans Slipping in 05 Mountaineer AWD with 5R55S

Hi, Thank you for the fast response. My wife’s truck has 81k on the odometer. It has only towed a trailer once, a small utility to bring a wood stove home for an hour long trip home. The trans would have had the standard maintenance, whether it was really checked when it was in - who knows. Last weekend my daughter was driving and as we stopped just past a missed turn. She placed it into reverse and pressed the throttle before the tranny fully engaged (because she was in a hurry to get off the road). When the tranny did engage it dropped into gear hard as the tires broke loose, surprising her and I as it didn’t sound like she was revving it excessively.

There are (2) other gremlins in this rig, one is a DS rear door window occasionally doesn’t work. The other, during the last 2 road trips the cruise control quit working and then later began again. On both trips it stopped after hitting the brakes the first trip it began working after stopping the second it began about ½ hour further down the road. I don’t think that the window is related, but could the cruise be linked to a control module?

I am pretty competent as a mechanic, have been working on and rebuilding cars for quite some time. I’ve never worked inside of a automatic only swapped them out all on pre computer controlled cars. I've read where kjgces had a blown direct clutch and discusses the need to accurately diagnose this correctly the first time around - this is where I need to be. Will any pressure gauge work and what is the procedure to complete and what pressures are acceptable? Will an OBDII rader show error codes that will help with diagostics?

From what I see on this site and the quality of the people - I feel confident to rebuild the VB and replace the solenoid pack, but want to be fairly certain that this will be good money spent. I’d be willing to take to a dealer for testing but could certainly use that money for the actual repair - we’re down to one income, so we’re trying to save what we can.

Thanks again for any and all of your help, have a great day!!

 

[bosanci28]

ok,,after driven the car for about 100 to 150 miles,,
i still have the shifting problem,,(5r55s - 04 lincoln aviator),
so i
called back the shop ,,and they said next thing to do is check the solenoid block to see each or the one from 2 to 3 gear to check the voltage and oms,,
then replace the bad one or the hole solenoid block,,
and of course 450$ for the solenoid pack other 200 in labor,,
man,,and me not a lot of money at the moment,,and i dont know if is okay to drive this car,

so now can only one solenoid be changed and witch one is it,,
and do i check does for voltage and oms,,

please ,help,
thanks
appreciate

 

[BrooklynBay]

The solenoids come in a modular block, so you can't replace individual solenoids. These blocks tend to act up around 60K miles. You could get another one from WWW.800700Tran.Com.

 

[bosanci28]

The solenoids come in a modular block, so you can't replace individual solenoids. These blocks tend to act up around 60K miles. You could get another one from WWW.800700Tran.Com.

is this one here for my 5r55s?
http://www.800700tran.com/prod.itml/icOid/159

ok,,so it does not matter if one is bad,,because all is one piece,,and need all to be change,,just to make sure,
thanks

 

[BrooklynBay]

Yes, this is the solenoid block. Take a look at the links in # 77 in my list of useful threads for more information on the differences between these solenoid blocks.

 

[bosanci28]

You mean between the models?
N S W?
I will look now. Thanks!

A few weeks back I went to the pick n pull, and I took something from a 2002 Mountaineer suspension. I have noticed that the tranny issue is still there.
Do you think the solenoid block will be the same? I'm just low on money, and untill I can fix it, I'm afraid that I might do more damage to the tranny.

Thanks!

 

[bosanci28]

do you thing is ok,,to drive the car like that for a week in till i can fix it?
it does not run so bad,,but has does litlle kicks,,

thanks,

 

[*TopDownCar*]

Hi BrooklynBay, Thank you for your response. Our truck has 81k on the clock. It has only towed a utility trailer once with 600lbs for a 2 hour trip.

Last weekend my daughter was driving and as we stopped just past a missed turn. She placed it into reverse and pressed the throttle before the tranny was fully engaged (because she was in a hurry to get off the road). When the tranny did engage it dropped into gear hard as the tires broke loose.

There is another gremlin in this rig, during the last 2 road trips the cruise control quit working and then later began again. On both trips it quit after hitting the brakes, on the first trip it began working after stopping for gas - on the second it began about ½ hour further down the road. Could the cruise problem be linked to a control module issue?

I’ve found your information on the trans port pressures - good information!
What is the testing procedure for checking port pressure?

Would an OBDII reader show error codes that will help with tranny diagnostics?

From what I’m finding on this site and the quality of the people - I feel confident to rebuild the VB if needed and to replace the solenoid pack, but want to be certain that this will be good money spent. I don’t want to take to a shop for testing - we could use that money for the repair - we’ve lost one income, so we’re trying to save where we can.

Thanks again for your help, have a great thanksgiving day!!

 

[BrooklynBay]

You have 2 pressure ports. One is the regular test port, and the other one is for the EPC (electronic pressure control) solenoid. An average, low cost code reader might not be capable of reading the codes. You will need a scanner which is capable of reading manufacturer specific transmission codes.

 

[*TopDownCar*]

Can the pressures be obtained while on jackstands? Oncew the guases are connected and the engine is running Must they be optained in all gears plus reverse? Must the engine been brought up off idle to 1500/2000 RPM?

 

[BrooklynBay]

Place the vehicle on ramps, then connect the pressure gauge, and sit in the driver's seat while looking at the gauge. Write down the readings in all of the gear ranges while at idle, and when you rev the engine a little.

 

[bosanci28]

BrooklynBay,

do you know if the car is driven like that can it do any more damage,,
for a week,,in till i will purchase the solenoid blok?

thanks,friend
happy thanksgiving!

 

[Marcin]

Hi

Do you know if replacing EPC solenoid and mounting Ford kit for VB is possible to be done just in the time of AT liquid change only removing transmission pan?

Regards, Marcin

 

[BrooklynBay]

It's possible to replace the solenoids while the pan is off during a fluid change.

 

[Marcin]

Thanks a lot. So now I have to find out what parts should to buy and who (here in Poland) could repair transmission for me.

Regards, Marcin

 

[Marcin]

Hi All

I have the some tranny problem. Us I understand I should replace EPC solenoid. What else (what kind of kit) should I replace but I prefer to do it in time of oil and filter change with no need of removing tranny off the car. What is you advice?

Regards, Marcin