The (Navigation) Dilemma! INSTALLED!

[ESGWheel]

Ok so here goes: need a Nav System in my (new to me) 2010 Explorer. If interested, see my post in New Members for the why.

My homework to date on trying to install an OEM version is: CAN DO!
* But it can be expensive, messy and there are still some unanswered questions.

I currently have the premium sound system with 6 CD Changer / Radio / SYNC. And with the Nav system I would like to add a rear camera to help assist in those ‘do it yourself’ tow hook ups.

So I would need (I think):
1. Nav Unit for 2010 Explorer that has SYNC
2. Brick Kit – all the stuff to make the Nav unit work that is needed and normally factory installed
3. Rear Camera
4. Programing for the Nav unit so will work
5. Nav DVD
6. Hacking device to allow the rear camera since was not an option on the 2010 Explorer

For Nav unit there is the option of eBay or one of the 'refurbish' companies that deal with this. So far I have found two seemingly good companies that do the OEM thing:
* OEM Auto Parts Co at http://www.oemautopartsco.com/
* 4D Tech at http://www.4dtech.com/

They both offer ‘pre-programed’ Nav units along with Brick Kits and hacking units. I am leaning toward the 4D Tech. Current thinking as to why:
Overall cost: 4DTech comes in a few hundred less for the Nav with Brick Kit. And while neither is the OEM for the hacking units, OEMAuto has Lockpick and 4DTeck has the Canopener. (Edit: the Canopener is in fact a 4D Tech product, I had this incorrect) I like the features of the Canopener better including (1) USB port for firm/software updates and (2) there is an option from them to provide the needed Nav Unit Programming via an emailed file that you then load into the Canopener > i.e. I could get a Nav unit from eBay and these guys would (I think) sell me the needed programing (not sure how much $ yet)

See Lockpick hacking device at https://www.coastaletech.com/
See CANopener hacking device at http://www.4dtech.com/canopener-for-09-12-ford-vehicles-hdd-nav-systems/

For the camera seems as if the Lockpick BARCAM221 V2 is the way to go at https://www.coastaletech.com/lockpickcameras.htm
This camera has both ‘night vision’ (i.e. lights) as well as Digital Distance Markers.

For the needed Nav DVD. Wow! There is so much chaos out there regarding these that is almost incomprehensible. Used fm eBay > will they work? New fm FLM > cost is crazy! Duplicates, Copies, Licensed or Not, Used, New and who the heck is NavTeq anyway? Seems like Risky Business regardless of which way you go.

So far - the simply too good to be true deal - is a "2015 Ford North America Navigation DVD 13P" for $44.99 (!!) from NaviDVD at http://navidvd.com/ford/35-2014-bmw-north-american-map-dvd-professional-2-disc-set.html While it does not list my 2010 Explorer, it does my 2007 Expedition and I sure can use and update for that! I have emailed them about the 2010 Explorer and asked how they are doing this for so cheap.
* Has anyone used these guys?

All told I am looking at almost $2k and a lot of effort to get in an OEM Nav Unit. And while I like the integrated look and feel of OEM, wow, two large and hassle of Nav DVD updates.

Seems like I could find an AfterMarket unit that would look nice, integrate well and have free lifetime map updates as well as traffic alerts, etc. Key for me on aftermarket is has to have a volume knob on the device as well as integrate with steering wheel controls and allow phone.

Questions to all you Explorers to help resolve my dilemma OEM or AM:
* Anyone actually done the full tilt OEM install with Brick Kit? Was it worth it and what companies did you use? Note: I could not find a whole lot of recent info in the forum on this.
* Anyone done a ‘fully integrated’ aftermarket job? Was it worth it and what brand / device did you use? Note: I have yet to start my homework on the AM devices so any tips of what to use or stay away from is appreciated.

 

[MotorCityFats13]

some people like the stock equipment others need more options.... I went with a pioneer 7" touch "AVH-X4800BS" $350 with options for a fully active system crossovers 13 band EQ and time delay the nav addon is another $300 which I will buy later when I have the money the only thing this HU does not have is dual camera inputs and HD radio.... it also can connect 2 devices using bluetooth which has been pretty sweet.... going this route would only cost $800 if you wanted a backup cam and that is all the install gear and it looks clean and better than stock.... ill post up pics in the morning when It gets light out I still have to patch in the stock aux jack to the back of the HU to retain its stock location

http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_100181_Pioneer-AVH-X4800BS.html

 

[ESGWheel]

MotorCityFats13

Looking forward to seeing the Pics!

Thanks!

 

[MotorCityFats13]

 

[ESGWheel]

Fats:

Sweet!
Is that what is also referred to as the "Double DIN"?
thanks for sharing!

 

[MotorCityFats13]

yes this is a double din... the unit I chose is a motorized unit so the dvd/cd drive is behind the face so its a 7" screen... the units that have a slot on the face are around 6.2"

 

[SixPonies]

Ok so here goes: need a Nav System in my (new to me) 2010 Explorer. If interested, see my post in New Members for the why.

My homework to date on trying to install an OEM version is: CAN DO!
* But it can be expensive, messy and there are still some unanswered questions.

I currently have the premium sound system with 6 CD Changer / Radio / SYNC. And with the Nav system I would like to add a rear camera to help assist in those ‘do it yourself’ tow hook ups.

So I would need (I think):
1. Nav Unit for 2010 Explorer that has SYNC
2. Brick Kit – all the stuff to make the Nav unit work that is needed and normally factory installed
3. Rear Camera
4. Programing for the Nav unit so will work
5. Nav DVD
6. Hacking device to allow the rear camera since was not an option on the 2010 Explorer

For Nav unit there is the option of eBay or one of the 'refurbish' companies that deal with this. So far I have found two seemingly good companies that do the OEM thing:
* OEM Auto Parts Co at http://www.oemautopartsco.com/
* 4D Tech at http://www.4dtech.com/

They both offer ‘pre-programed’ Nav units along with Brick Kits and hacking units. I am leaning toward the 4D Tech. Current thinking as to why:
Overall cost: 4DTech comes in a few hundred less for the Nav with Brick Kit. And while neither is the OEM for the hacking units, OEMAuto has Lockpick and 4DTeck has the Canopener. I like the features of the Canopener better including (1) USB port for firm/software updates and (2) there is an option from them to provide the needed Nav Unit Programming via an emailed file that you then load into the Canopener > i.e. I could get a Nav unit from eBay and these guys would (I think) sell me the needed programing (not sure how much $ yet)

See Lockpick hacking device at https://www.coastaletech.com/
See CANopener hacking device at http://www.4dtech.com/canopener-for-09-12-ford-vehicles-hdd-nav-systems/

For the camera seems as if the Lockpick BARCAM221 V2 is the way to go at https://www.coastaletech.com/lockpickcameras.htm
This camera has both ‘night vision’ (i.e. lights) as well as Digital Distance Markers.

For the needed Nav DVD. Wow! There is so much chaos out there regarding these that is almost incomprehensible. Used fm eBay > will they work? New fm FLM > cost is crazy! Duplicates, Copies, Licensed or Not, Used, New and who the heck is NavTeq anyway? Seems like Risky Business regardless of which way you go.

So far - the simply too good to be true deal - is a "2015 Ford North America Navigation DVD 13P" for $44.99 (!!) from NaviDVD at http://navidvd.com/ford/35-2014-bmw-north-american-map-dvd-professional-2-disc-set.html While it does not list my 2010 Explorer, it does my 2007 Expedition and I sure can use and update for that! I have emailed them about the 2010 Explorer and asked how they are doing this for so cheap.
* Has anyone used these guys?

All told I am looking at almost $2k and a lot of effort to get in an OEM Nav Unit. And while I like the integrated look and feel of OEM, wow, two large and hassle of Nav DVD updates.

Seems like I could find an AfterMarket unit that would look nice, integrate well and have free lifetime map updates as well as traffic alerts, etc. Key for me on aftermarket is has to have a volume knob on the device as well as integrate with steering wheel controls and allow phone.

Questions to all you Explorers to help resolve my dilemma OEM or AM:
* Anyone actually done the full tilt OEM install with Brick Kit? Was it worth it and what companies did you use? Note: I could not find a whole lot of recent info in the forum on this.
* Anyone done a ‘fully integrated’ aftermarket job? Was it worth it and what brand / device did you use? Note: I have yet to start my homework on the AM devices so any tips of what to use or stay away from is appreciated.

I've been researching doing the same thing-mainly because I don't want to lose the steering wheel controls and SYNC capabilities. I'd already found everything on OEMPARTSCO, but hadn't found 4D Parts Tech. I know it would be a pricey project, but I like the idea of keeping the OEM capabilities and a factory look. I also want to add an OEM F150-style tailgate handle camera.

However, I would also consider an aftermarket option if it would interface with SYNC, retain steering wheel controls, and also allow for camera input. If anyone has any suggestions which would do all of the above, please share.

 

[MotorCityFats13]

I've been researching doing the same thing-mainly because I don't want to lose the steering wheel controls and SYNC capabilities. I'd already found everything on OEMPARTSCO, but hadn't found 4D Parts Tech. I know it would be a pricey project, but I like the idea of keeping the OEM capabilities and a factory look. I also want to add an OEM F150-style tailgate handle camera.

However, I would also consider an aftermarket option if it would interface with SYNC, retain steering wheel controls, and also allow for camera input. If anyone has any suggestions which would do all of the above, please share.

sync is probably a no go... but swc and camera can be done with just about any DD head unit... if you are an apple person pioneer app radio merges with siri so its like sync i would guess

 

[ESGWheel]

Here is a follow up to my Dilemma that now includes some more homework on the OEM route and my promised homework on the After Market route:

Option 1: OEM Route
The guys at 4DTech really have this wired. The key is their CANopener. “Their” as in they designed it from the ground up, it is their product, not someone else’s they are pushing. I talked to one of the owners and they are Ford enthusiasts thru and thru. And they built into the CANopener features to overcome the shortcoming Ford did when they joined up with Microsoft. If you have MS SYNC you are familiar with the press and hold to hang up and the silly redial… Check out their vid here on these features:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-tGPFhi8ac

So this becomes a strong incentive for me to go this route.

They also said they no longer provide ‘off line’ programing for your own Nav Units (via the CANopener). Too many issues and I can certainly understand. So that leaves out helping the cost by buying an eBay Nav unit.

So while expensive these guys are less than the other guys and have a solid process and equipment. And you know what you are getting and there is the factor of familiarity: both wife and I know the OEM Nav units. This may not sound like much but I for one am sick and tired of MS and Apple changing up the look and feel of their products every couple of years! So call me an old dog…

Option 2: Aftermarket
So many options and so much to tie together. I poked around a lot and ended up chatting with the folks at Crutchfield. My stated requirements were:
• Retain the steering wheel buttons
• Updatable Maps that are reasonable cost
• At least a 6.5 inch screen
• A physical volume knob on the device > may sound silly but there is nothing that beats a real knob when you want to quickly adjust without looking….
• And nice to have: the additional vehicle info, like tire pressure, etc. I do not what to spend a lot of $ on a unit and it NOT have it but I am not totally fixated on it

Chuck came back with the Kenwood Excelon DNX692 ($749.99) + iDatalink Maestro ADS-MRR Interface Module ($93.87) + iDatalink Connec HRN-RR-FO1 Factory Integration Adapter ($18.05) + Metra 99-5807 Dash Kit ($10.83) + Metra 40-CR10 Antenna Adapter ($7.21). So about $880. Prices reflect their “bundle discount”, which they say saves $215 over ‘list’.

This was the same unit I came across I my own research, but is smaller screen then I was hoping for (OEM unit measured at 6.5” > so maybe not a big deal, but for a Nav screen size does matter). Also, not consistently great reviews.

But what about that steering wheel phone button? With the iDatalink I can retain their use but what about that issue with the silly hang up and redial? Chuck was no help.

What I suspect is that all the Maestro iDatalink (by ADS) really does is simply retain the buttons and not SYNC. I.e. the Bluetooth and all the ‘what the buttons’ do are 100% the iDatalink + Nav Unit. This leads me to believe that the press and hold to hang up may be different, simply press once. Great! But I am unsure and just watched an ADS vid that suggests it does (or rather can) use the OEM SYNC. Hmmmm...

So I called ADS Tech support. They said have a choice in the set up: retain Sync with its microphone and Voice Recognition, etc. - OR - use the Kenwood Bluetooth but would have to install the Kenwood microphone. She did say if retain SYNC the buttons would be “different.” Being a Doubting Thomas I asked: “Is there an online user set up manual I can read?” “Why yes, Bill, there is at ADS > Support > Install Guides > Select Ford and Year > see guides.”

They had one for Ford + Kenwood. And guess what the guide says:

Quote
RETAINING SYNC
When Maestro is programmed to retain Sync, some of the steering wheel buttons will work differently. These two buttons cannot be re-configured. For steering wheel button operation when Sync is retained, see table below.

(I cannot post the table for some reason but it has a picture of the buttons and for the phone button the table says: Press and Hold to hang up a call)
End Quote

Sigh… silliness continues (press and hold) and I sure suspect the redial will be the same.

On the plus side I could pull the unit when I eventually trade cars but by then I assume lots will be different.

Dilemma continues…

 

[ESGWheel]

SixPonies,

I did a cost compare to the 4D and OEM Auto Parts Co, see below. These are for the Explorer so you would need to validate for the F150 but I am sure results will be similar. Also for the OEM Tailgate Handle look on the rear camera: 4D Tech has these for the 150 but they are pricy. Here is the link
http://www.4dtech.com/ford-tailgate-handle-camera-kit-rear-facing/

Going OEM with different Supplies – the costs:

4D Tech
OEM Style Nav Unit
$1,399.99 Includes Brick; Maps loaded on HDD with 2010 or so Map data, no DVD since is a HDD unit; can update the Nav data with right DVD that buy separately. Warranty is 1 year even on this refurbished unit.

CANopener
$249.98 Includes 1 Camera support; $30 more if double cam

Total: $1,649.97


OEM Auto Parts Co
OEM Style Nav Unit
$1,699.90 Includes Brick; Maps loaded on HDD with 2010 or so Map data, no DVD since is a HDD unit; can update the Nav data to latest from them but add $200; 30 Day Warranty but can get 1 year from them by adding $195

Lockpick fm Costal E Tech (this is the recommend one fm OEM Auto)
$299.00 Includes up to 4 Camera support

Total: $1,998.90


So difference is $348.93, but if add in the OEM Auto 1 Year Warranty to be more apple to apple is really $348+$195 = $543 difference

Also there is no doubt can retain the SYNC but with smarter button pushing using the 4D Tech CANopener per my previous post.

hope this helps...

 

[MotorCityFats13]

I am really surprised crutchfield gave a good price list on the accessory's.... they should not have charged for the dash kit though, everybody online includes those.... and the kenwood is either really new or a crutchfield exclusive because I cant find it anywhere for cheaper .... they wanted $430 but all install gear was included for my 4800bs and sonic was $100 cheaper but were out of stock on their house brand dash kit so I paid $9.99... they always push the pac wire box but I already had the basic plug and antenna adapter

 

[ESGWheel]

they had a refirb one for ~ $500 but looks like it gone now..

 

[ESGWheel]

Dilemma Solved!

I was leaning heavily towards the AfterMarket simply due to cost. From my previous posts, about $880 for AM and $1,650 for the OEM route. And these costs do not include a rear camera!

So double for the OEM route… sigh…

More homework and searching about and found NavRepair at http://navrepair.com and these guys do programing for your supplied unit. For the Ford Jukebox style unit its $124, you ship to them, they program it, and ship it back (return shipping included in the $124).

Ok, so $124 is good… now need a unit but what about its condition and warranty?

Well I found one on eBay for my application for $375 and seller willing to drop ship (free shipping) to NavRepair. Seems like a good unit, but is it the right one? Seller says yes, but…

Turns out NavRepair has a Chat line and I gave them my VIN and the Unit’s part number / model number and they confirmed it will work. I asked if there is a trick to determine that and he said they have the ability to look up VIN and Part No to see if good match. And they will do it for anyone who asks. So before you buy your used unit, check with these guys, they are AWESOME! :biggthump

Ok so now I am at $375 + $125 but still need Brick Unit for $400 and the CANopener for $250 for a total of $1,150. That is better than the $1,650 and not so far off the Aftermarket.

But warranty…

Turns out eBay has hooked up with Assurant, a large and reputable ‘insurance’ company as in for an extra $$ can get a warranty. And for a “1 Year Used Car Electronics Protection (for electronics $300-$400)” it costs $24.49. I called them up and asked how it works. They offer a 100% refund in the form of ‘eBay gift card’ if unit fails during the coverage (6 months also available for less). Since is less than $500, they do not need to inspect unit, but will ask you questions, so it’s an honor system.

So now I am at 1 year warranty with the programming and hacker unit needed for a total of $1,175.

So seems like Dilemma solved and now it’s a matter of execution and buying all this stuff.

 

[ESGWheel]

Update on Nav DVD 13P!

In my pervious post, while searching for a way to get updated Nav Map for (hoped for) OME Nav Unit Retro Install was asking if anyone had used NaviDVD.

"So far - the simply too good to be true deal - is a "2015 Ford North America Navigation DVD 13P" for $44.99 (!!) from NaviDVD at http://navidvd.com/ford/35-2014-bmw-north-american-map-dvd-professional-2-disc-set.html While it does not list my 2010 Explorer, it does my 2007 Expedition and I sure can use and update for that! I have emailed them about the 2010 Explorer and asked how they are doing this for so cheap. Has anyone used these guys? "

NaviDVD replied back to my email that maybe in 2016 will have what is needed for the 2010 Explorer and "works or money back, best maps in the business."
And since they did have that too good to be true 13P for $45 + $6 shipping for my Expy, so I got it.
Here is what I got in the mail:
* a Verbatim brand DVD disc without any FLM logos, etc.
* a page long note explaining why no logos and how to install

Well I loaded it up and sure enough: now is 13P!

Note: their web site says this 13P disc will work for
* Ford Explorer (2006-2008)
* Ford Explorer Sport Trac (2007-2008

Happy New Year! :

 

[ESGWheel]

DVD Works Fine, Lasts a Long Time

Just took the new 13P Nav DVD for a spin in the 07 Expy.
Same sexy voice, same mispronunciation of our Indian tribe named roads.
And I checked out some map detail of places that have undergone major re-routing / construction along with new POIs and all is good!

 

[4FordFamily]

I love my pioneer nav in my 2012 f150 and 08 explorers. Sounds much better than the factory nav also. The '16 explorer sport and '13 fusion titanium have factory nav and its alright too.

 

[ESGWheel]

4FordFam:
Quite the Thoroughbred Stable!!!

 

[4FordFamily]

4FordFam:
Quite the Thoroughbred Stable!!!

If it isn't a Ford I don't want it!

 

[SixPonies]

After looking at some of the aftermarket options recommended above, along with some others that I found on my own at Crutchfield; and comparing them to OEM options, I think I've settled on a Kenwood DVD receiver unit. I don't really need a navigation unit because I use my iPhone/Waze app most of the time for that already. So I think that when I'm ready to pull the trigger, I'm going to go with the Kenwood Excelon DDX393 along with all of the required accessories to retain full SYNC capabilities from Crutchfield. Then I'll just buy a Ford OEM Tailgate Camera Kit from OEMAutoPartsCo to complete the package. This will be at least $1000 cheaper than going the full OEM route, which will leave me more $$$ for other mods, and with the Kenwood unit, I also have an option for adding a front camera if I so choose.

 

[ESGWheel]

Six,

Makes total sense. While I am now committed to the OEM route on this 2010 Explorer, for my next vehicle (wherever that will be) I think I will go 100% Aftermarket route. There is so much flexibility, options and lifetime map updates!

For this OEM route, I'll post progress and total costs along with experiences: Good, Bad or Ugly