The New Car Computer: CAN I & II

[Glacier991]

Well those of you who know me understand that I am one of those guys that is just geeky enough to think that computers and cars were a match made in heaven. They run longer, faster, get better mileage, have better shift feel, even tell you what's upsetting their tummy. Those who complain and long for the old days are doomed to extinction, so better keep up with it. Too cheap to buy a $50 code reader ? Good news they are down to $25 these days!

[Ok confession time I broke something on a Auto diagnostic PC board tonight... so I may like em but they do not like me tinkering with em... anyway]

The times are a changing. For the better.

The auto folks liked what computers did to their cars. So did the EPA. (And recently at $3 a gallon so did *I*!) So for Ford EEC 1 was born in the 80's, soon EEC (Electronic engine control) 2, then 3. But it really started off big time with EEC IV.... Explorers were born about this time.

The computer had 60 wires going to it. Soon EEC-V came along with over 100 wires. Oh and OBD-II... a genius way of having the vehicle interface with computers and talk to them....

Can you imagine the cost and complexity of the wiring bundles? If you ever burned up a car you can. It can total a car. They are a HUGE expense!!

Meanwhile.... on another front, something new was being born. Bosch was pushing the idea of a computer network in a car. Where all the sensors and things share a small set of wires, taking turns communicating with the computer on the "party line" if you will. Computer Area Networking - CAN for short. It was very similar to how a PC works, except a PC also had parallel connections as well as serial, this was designed to be serial. Data sent a bit at a time (at an incredible speed) over a couple wires instead of a set number of bits all at once on 16/32 wires. Geeky stuff, but stay tuned.

Bosch designed what it called CAN 1 in the late 80's ! and CAN 2 soon followed. Mercedes was the first auto manufacturer to use it.

In 2003 FORD formally adopted CAN 2. In December 2005 , FORD is moving to CAN BIG TIME. I mean really big time. A huge changeover. Wiring harnesses will go from tree trunks to just a small bundles of wires that run common everywhere... the serial bus CAN. Entirely new areas of troubleshooting will arise, as will strategies to solve them. Interesting times.

But wait..... the Feds still want OBD-II availability. Ford has more and more independent shops working on their vehicles.... and CAN is inherently PC built...

SO for those with the exotic FORD NGS testers (I hope to own one someday) Ford is building backwards compatible connectors and modules.... same with their new Worldwide Diagnostic System (WDS) but FORD has ALSO announced their new system.. (well more or less)... and it is:


LAPTOP COMPUTERS RUNNING PROPRIETARY SOFTWARE

They plan to license it. It will provide full readout of everything, even allowing a graphing snapshot digital oscilloscope function (trust me guys this is BIG time HUGE....)

Well you have heard of the future... remember Dick Tracy wristwatch TV's?

Automobile wise for us FORD freaks, the future has arrived. Who'd a thunk it... laptops are the workhorses of the future. (see the ancient thread on Computer Control I did a couple years ago... I made a lucky guess).

Feel free to add your thoughts, more news, and/or stay tuned for more as this thread evolves.

If you are not a computer car junkie, no time like the present to become one. The shade tree better have juice for a computer... tomorrow is here.

 

[MalcolmV8]

Speaking of laptops for diagnosis have you seen these

http://www.scantool.net/

My local auto parts store wants about $800 for a scantool. I like the laptop idea for $100. I already use my laptop for the Baumann tranny controller.

Networking all the sensors on a serial bus makes perfect sense. Should have done it a long time ago. Do you have links to articles or something with more info?

Thanks for the update
Malcolm

 

[Glacier991]

Here is a start...
http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vdirs/retail/default.asp?pageid=wds_retail&gutsid=wds&menuIndex1=16

and then there is this as well (this site is awesome btw.. FORD did well)

http://www.motorcraftservice.com/vd...s_retail_ngs_top&gutsid=ngs_top&menuIndex1=45

Someday I will own a NGS.... it is like a distant dream.....

Anyway I'll post more, and others feel free to add to this thread. It is going to happen fast and some folks will say it seems like it was "sprung on em"....

 

[Glacier991]

I guess I should have expected this... here are the old threads....

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80707&highlight=computer+sensor

and then

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80692&highlight=computer+sensor

and finally...

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80910&highlight=computer+sensor

 

[Rhett]

CAN sounds really neat. I wonder how difficult it would be to convert an OBD-I/II system to a CAN setup?

 

[wired_af]

CAN sounds really neat. I wonder how difficult it would be to convert an OBD-I/II system to a CAN setup?

Probably extremely difficult/expensive.

 

[410Fortune]

"Can you imagine the cost and complexity of the wiring bundles?"

hahaha all toooooooooo well.

 

[ExplorerDMB]

The NGS won't be able to work on anything 2005+! Atleast that is what our tech guy told us. Ford is going to the Laptop/PDA and so is GM. We (my shop) is spending about 15-20K this year to become a factory level independent shop. We will be factory level with GM, Ford, and Toyota (but we may go further). We are getting laptops soon, I believe the Ford software is suppose to hit out before the end of the year. It is some real cool stuff. I also heard of the "virtual scan-tool" which will allow you to download the software you need to interface with a particular vehicle (BMW, GM, etc.) and be factory level using a laptop. It's some very cool stuff just around the corner -- glad that I'll be a part of it.

-Drew

 

[351wExplorer]

shoot i downgraded my wiring system, i mean with the carb you got like 6 wires. to tell you the truth this scares me... the days of the backyard mechanic are dying

 

[410Fortune]

Dont be scared

 

[ExplorerDMB]

the days of the backyard mechanic are dying

Yes, but in my mind (a technician) it helps me out because it will prohibit people from going "Oh, shoot I can do that"..and then getting it half way apart and then giving it to me to finish it. A guy at work had a perfect example -- it was a '97 Mazda that had the engine half way out and then they decided to have it towed to our shop. Well, he had the fun time of putting a puzzle back together. I mean, all in all, take it to someone who knows how to do it -- most of the time you get the work warrantied, and you will probably end up paying for it in the end if you do it yourself anyway. Also, backyard mechanics can still do maitnance stuff, some brakes, changing the oil, and other fluids -- but the engine replacements, air bag systems, so on and so on should be handled by a certified technician. And most of the manufacturers are trying to have it so that you can't work on your vehicle, so there is more money in their pocket. Just my opinion though.

-Drew

 

[Rhett]

Probably extremely difficult/expensive.

Well, I don't know if it would be any more difficult than any other direct engine and wiring harness swap...imagine in the year 2007 taking some engine/drivetrain with CAN PCM and wiring out of a donor vehicle, then dropping it all (CAN PCM, CAN wiring and all) into a 94 Explorer. What a fun project!

Should be FEWER wires, if what they say is true about CAN.

 

[TheJMan]

I like where automakers are going with electronic powertrain controls. When I got my 2000, I was at first disappointed that it had OBD-II because it was supposed to "learn out" engine mods. I discovered that it did not "learn out" the mods, and is an engineering marvel.

On my 1993 Explorer, I left the MAF unplugged once after changing the air filter and the truck ran like crap. The CEL came on, and black smoke started pouring out the tailpipe. I tried the same thing on my 2000 Mountaineer, and nothing happened. The CEL illuminated after a drive cycle, but it ran fine. I read that when certain sensors such as the MAF and IAT go out of range, the computer will input a predefined value, such as 75F for the IAT. The computer will use results from other sensors to make up for the missing input and the computer will go into "limp home" mode.

I find it amazing at how flawless this technology is.

 

[hermitrl]

I could work on my old 350. Could actually reach the spark plugs. If something was wrong I knew exactly what it was by the sound or feel of the car. If I happened to break down---chances are I could rig it to limp home.
I will always buy older "antique" vehicles if I can find them.
Antilock brakes? I used to know jut what would happen if I had to slam them on and steered in expectation of a skid.
Guess I am just old school.

 

[351wExplorer]

i actually work at a shop, AutoTech Service, and im training to be a tech. BUt it isnt the career i wanted, i want to learn as much as i can then just do auto as a sidejob out of my garage someday. thats why i said the backyard mechanics are dying. there is no way i would be able to justify spending so much money on all the computers and diagnostic equipment. So i guess i will stick to the simple, front ends and brakes.

 

[Rhett]

Antilock brakes? I used to know jut what would happen if I had to slam them on and steered in expectation of a skid.

I hear you, brother!!

 

[exploded99]

There is also the new Bose electronic suspension coming out - I think 2009 is the first year (just three more model years!) which replaces the springs and shocks in the suspension system. It keeps the car flat thru any corner - no body lean. You can drive over cobblestones or washboard dirt and the suspension will compensate to keep the ride smooth.

It uses "linear acceleration motors" to do the work, and will of course be controlled by the onboard computer.

I just wonder if you will still be able to put in chips to increase performance - I have a feeling that the electronic systems will be very interdependent and the manufacturers will make them difficult to modify.

 

[Rhett]

There is also the new Bose electronic suspension coming out - I think 2009 is the first year (just three more model years!) which replaces the springs and shocks in the suspension system. It keeps the car flat thru any corner - no body lean. You can drive over cobblestones or washboard dirt and the suspension will compensate to keep the ride smooth.

It uses "linear acceleration motors" to do the work, and will of course be controlled by the onboard computer.

I wonder how robust that system would be, espcially for carrying loads. The question is will we see that on framed trucks? Or just cars?

 

[MONMIX]

My Matco MD-1000 is CAN ready

 

[ExplorerDMB]

Btt