Trailmaster '98-'00 update...

[Paul Gagnon]

Sorry to hear that Ray

I will say a prayer for you. I am not very good at praying so please bear with me....

Dear god please let Ray be lifted in time for (insert name of trail here) run in (insert number of days) days so that he can be a bad ass like the rest of us! LOLOLOLOLOL


Seriously though that sucks that everything happened at once but there is a bright side to it. You won't have to worry for quite a while now.

 

[Rick]

I understand why you're that situation stinks. I hope the shop can get to your truck quickly so you can get on the road er... off-the-road.

 

[felsmann]

Response from Trail master's president

Guys, I sent an email to Jim Chick, President of trailmaster last night, quoting Gerald's excelent dexcription of the TrailTrasher, I mean master saga. Here is what I sent him, responding to an email he sent me earlier regarding the release of the "new product"

Jim, I could not wait any longer, and went ahead and paid to have one custom made. It works and looks great. However, hundreds of people are really frustrated and wondering what's going on. So you are aware, and perhaps
able to provide a response to your "want to be customers", I'm sending you the following caption from the message board in Rick's site. This is the level of frustration these guys are in right now:
Then I quoted Grald's post.

He responded:

Your choice. Based on the message below, makes me sorry I got involved with your group. You know, we weren't really going to finish developing the system for the Explorer because it there was absolutely NO noise about it from that Explorer we had at the SEMA show. I also know exactly what Ford is rolling out on their 2001 Explorer, so there is no future for our system or anyone else that develops one. Product development is a tough thing to project, and I'm sorry this kit is taking so long to roll out. We take our
business VERY seriously, and its an affront to have my company depicted as playing games. It is available now, but our customers need to place orders. Time will tell
if the development costs were worth it.
Jim Chick.

There you have it!

 

[RPheezy]

Great job Juan! But his message has left me in a state of confusion. So, what the heck do we do now? Do we call them up? Place an order at our local shop? Order it online?

Also, did he just punk out by saying that he's sorry he got involved with us? That's really shady.

Can someone clarify what we're supposed to do now. It sounds like the kit is ready to go.

Thanks

 

[Guerilla Biscuits]

What about a price? Not that I could use it....

 

[Paul Gagnon]

Sounds to me like they really couldn't care less about the ...what would it be?... close to three million '95-2000 Explorers out there on the roads already that are getting older and cheaper to buy used so that they are more attractive to modify. Great business sense that these guys have... NOT!!!!! I was going to buy Trailmaster shocks but now I will not. It means nothing to them if I boycott Trailmaster but it sure means something to me.

Oh yeah, one more thing...

We take our business VERY seriously, and its an affront to have my company depicted as playing games. It
is available now, but our customers need to place orders. Time will tell if the development costs were worth it.

Jim Chick

Jim your company IS playing games and you are right, that is a very serious thing. I hope that time shows that the development costs were not worth it. I hope all of those people that you strung along go elsewhere for their lift kits. I also hope that others stop buying your stuff simply on principle.

[Edited by Paul Gagnon on 08-11-2000 at 10:32 AM]

 

[leebo]

All I'm thinking is that several companies(not just trailmaster) are missing out on a HUGE platform for some aftermarket parts. Ford did a good job of building the Explorer, but the did leave some room for improvement. With all the Explorers out there you'd figure that at least ONE company would realize this and come out with a line of aftermarket parts. What do they do instead, they turn their backs on the Ford drivers and continue to flood the market with cheap parts for those damn J:fire::fire::fire:s. I'm sick and tired of looking on the net, in mags, in the store and finding out that these parts are only for the other brand.

And to the pres of Trailmaster
Dead Link Removed
everybody else get in line....I'm first

[Edited by leebo on 08-14-2000 at 07:34 PM]

 

[leebo]

I saw something about giving the middle finger =

it's a good thing that one wasn't a smilie.....

sorry about the double post....been a while since I've done that

[Edited by leebo on 08-11-2000 at 11:02 AM]

 

[felsmann]

Well, I know that there seems to be some attitude in his message, but let's look at what we care about: LIFTING YOUR TRUCK. He said he is waiting for his customers to place orders, to me that sounds like you need to call your local dealer and have them order the kit. Then see what happens.

 

[Paul Gagnon]

This is more than about lifting a truck now. He made an attack on the people who use this message board. The very same people who have been asking for the lift and as he implies, the only reason that this lift is being produced. I think there needs to be a very PUBLIC apology from Trailmaster.

 

[JAY]

I don't mean to stick up for TrailMaster, but I feel I have to. They went ahead and made a lift theay had admitted they were not going to produce. Sure it took longer than expected (way longer) and I agree that they should not have kept giving out dates if it wasn't set in stone. The bottom line is, we asked for it and they prodiced it.

I can agree with Jim Chick's disgust and attitude tward us. He can't fully control the R&D of a kit. He made a company desision to produse this kit, and now he feels like he has been attacked by us, the same people he was trying to help.

If everyone decided to boycot this lift now, what would that say about us. Other companies would take note and see that there is no reason to help us out. All they would see is that we talk big but won't commit to anything after the fact.

I have talked to some friends at ford and this lift is adaptable to the Sporttrac and I think the Explorer Sport (I can't remember that one for sure), so that makes it applicable beyond the origional 2000 model year they developed for.

Bottom line is if we keep acting like this, we are no better than Trailmaster. If anything we need to show tham they made the right decision, and that it would be in there best intereast to keep us (explorer owners) on thier side.

Sorry this took was so long. I needed to get this out befor people started acting like big babies, who have always had everything go there way. I know that isn't true,we are better than that, which is why we get attention in the first place.

 

[GJarrett]

Paul, I couldn't agree with you more, but I for one am at their mercy. I HAVE to buy one if I want a lift. It's the only one. Since my post is the one that ticked him off, I may send him an email in a day or two after I have cooled off and figured out a professionally courteous way to word it. The bottom line is at least we DID keep screaming long enough to get this done and his company IS the only one that responded, though in a very inept manner. So we should be grateful for what he has committed to and done, though understandably put off by how it was handled.

I am also frustrated because I, like you, have figured out an awesome way to lift these things, but it's my daily driver and I cannot give it up for a longterm project to fab my own lift. I wouldn't drop the control arms; I'd have "Super-CV" joints manufactured to handle extreme angles and do a 4" torsion twist. That would leave real gonzo clearance up front, just like a Hummer's. There would be no drop bracket or front diffy hanging down at axle level. Just clear air under there. Is that sort of what you had in mind?

PS / to answer another question that was mentioned, I am getting quotes in the $1500-$1600 range in the Dallas area for the kit. If I have a CV front driveshaft instead of a U-joint, I'll have to get that replaced for extra $$$.

[Edited by GJarrett on 08-11-2000 at 12:37 PM]

 

[Paul Gagnon]

Gerald what I had in mind was a long travel IFS with replacement control arms that would be about twice as long as the current ones and be mounted on the opposite side of the frame. Also I was thinking of using longer torsion bars or possibly coils (make it SLA suspension rather than torsion bar) but without a vehicle to use as a prototype I can't really decide. I won't go into all the little details but basically I was thinking that the whole drop bracket thing for IFS (be if Ford, Chevy, Toyota or what have you) only exists because it is cheap and easy to produce. Long travel IFS will work and can be mass produced. There is just nobody out there that does it. My plan was to try it out on all sorts of trucks. Hmmm... Maybe I can buy an old Toyota pickup for a couple hundred bucks and at least test my ideas that way.

 

[GJarrett]

Paul, what an AWESOME idea. That setup would have incredible travel. You'd outdo the "Zimmerman mod" with that deal. Go buy yourself a cheap Ranger and have at it. I'd be one of your first customers! It would be called the "Warthog" lift, right? :smoke:

 

[Paul Gagnon]

Originally posted by GJarrett
Paul, I couldn't agree with you more, but I for one am at their mercy. I HAVE to buy one if I want a lift. It's the only one. Since my post is the one that ticked him off, I may send him an email in a day or two after I have cooled off and figured out a professionally courteous way to word it. The bottom line is at least we DID keep screaming long enough to get this done and his company IS the only one that responded, though in a very inept manner. So we should be grateful for what he has committed to and done, though understandably put off by how it was handled.

I don't really see why you need to apologize. The response from Trailmaster seems to have always been "yeah, yeah, whenever I feel like getting to it" If they had a good reason for the delays (which by the way, it seems they did) then they should have been straight up with everyone and told them why. Keeping everyone in the dark just frustrates people. These days it is so much more about customer satisfaction than product. They have to start realizing that.

Until just this week I was very upset at Superlift because of the problems that I have had with my lift. After I phoned their tech support line I was so impressed that it changed my feelings about the company 100% Service is the key and I myself will go where the service is over price and availability. Every time!

 

[Paul Gagnon]

Originally posted by GJarrett
It would be called the "Warthog" lift, right? :smoke:

That was the idea and also where that name came from.

 

[felsmann]

I agree with you Jay. Perhaps Jim has been fighting an internal battle of his own trying to get this thing going. Maybe that's why he had to drive himself to T-Haven. But whatever the reason, I agree with the fact that providing a reason as to why the delay, is not too hard.

Go out and buy the darn thing, 6 months from now you'll be enjoying your truck and won't even remember about this!

 

[rpenner54]

Originally posted by Paul Gagnon

Originally posted by GJarrett
It would be called the "Warthog" lift, right? :smoke:

That was the idea and also where that name came from.

Would you have cool stickers like that Massey lift?
LOL

 

[Ray Lobato]

Jay,
You know the thing that pissed off most everybody,including me, was the July 17 announcement that didn't happen. This after a year of promises didn't settle real well. Take a look at the promise list that Gerald had in his post. Yes I understand that Trailmaster invested alot of money into developement of something that they thought wasn't really going anywhere, He's talking about he knows where that 2001 Explore is going, but he's not looking at the millions of 95-00 trucks already out there. He's mad because he thinks he got screwed by Ford because they are changing the rear end. He's also mad because some of us are not waiting any longer. There are plenty of people who will buy their lift. I bought their Ranger lift. I would take it back but I also special ordered some rear springs from Skyjacker to go in the back since I want to continue having a SUA set up, and the Ranger kit is SOA. I can't do it now. I still supported Trailmaster. Hell if he wants to take back my Ranger lift, I'll go ahead and get the Explorer lift kit. I'm sure I could sell the skyjacker springs. After reading his responce to Juan, I don't think he will be reading anything from this board, but you never know.
Chip,
We all got our feathers ruffled on this on both sides, but let's get over it and get along with business at hand.
I didn't want to wait any longer so I bought a Trailmaster Ranger kit instead. At least I bought from Trailmaster. There will be plenty of people who will buy your Explorer kit. Besides you didn't make your kit for my year Explorer anyway. I would still have to modify it.

Gerald,
Geez, and you tell me to chill out. Our likes and temperments are just too alike. No wonder we get along so well. So you tweaked his bean alittle too much. eh? At least we got a responce from him and we now know that the kit is ready.
ALL YOU PEOPLE WITH 95+ MODELS. IT'S TIME TO PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS AND GO OUT THERE AND BUY THIS LIFT KIT.
Remember that those with 95-97's you will have to modify it. As the Ranger kit is pretty much the same thing as far as the front is concerned I hope to have pictures of how it is modified, plus Juan has some picture also. Check them out

 

[GJarrett]

Well, hell... more of the same ol' same ol', Ray

I have written an email to Jim Chick that I have not sent yet, offering him an "olive branch" to reconcile our differences. I have not sent it yet; I am still trying to figure out the proper thing to do. The facts are that at least he was the only one to respond, and we are grateful for that. However, he handled it terribly wrong concerning the info released concerning the release date of the kit. His last response to Juan makes it clear he considers us a troublesome bunch to deal with.

What a concept. He's a manufacturer, and we're a bunch of customers banging on his door trying to buy stuff from him, and he's pissed off that we are bothering him trying to send him money.

Today I tried to order the lift through not one but three sources in the Dallas area, and all of them say they cannot get anything from Trailmaster right now while Trailmaster's move is still going on after their buyout by Lund. They will take my order if I prepay up front and then wait to see what happens. Duh. The new date quoted to me was August 28th. That feels kinda like the date quoted back in May of 1999 promising it by the end of the month.

We are STILL where we always were. It is NOT available right now, unless we are willing to prepay untrusting retailers who won't stock them and only will use our capital to fund an order for a ghost-lift that still has not happened despite over a year of promises. I can't say I blame the retailers on this one.

And don't let Mr. Chick's concept of customers slip by you... "It is available now, but our customers need to place orders...."

That is his customers, as in his retailers. In other words, we are not his customers (reference his preceding comment that he is sorry he became involved with us). His concept of the market is what his retailers decide to stock. We are a troublesome afterthought, merely the end-users who actually want to utilize his product. He must be a Democrat.

[Edited by GJarrett on 08-11-2000 at 09:17 PM]