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Tuning my 347 with rear mount turbo

Discussion in 'EEC V' started by Dono, January 29, 2016.

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    1. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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      which means you'll be driving the honda, and she'll be racing the explorer :D
       
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    3. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      MAF AD Counts?

      Did your max MAF AD Counts increase when the max boost increased for the same engine speed? If not, then your MAF sensor could be pegged or the restriction to air flow is not allowing the added boost to increase airflow for that engine speed. The max load will not increase unless the max MAF AD Counts increase for a given engine speed. Remember that load is comparable to the adiabatic efficiency of the engine. Increasing the boost may broaden the engine range of max load.

      The total airflow (MAF AD Counts) should continue to increase with engine speed but the max adiabatic efficiency occurs at 4556 rpm.
       
    4. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      MAF add counts do level off.
      Apparently that's common with a turbo application. They actually even drop ever so slightly The MAF is not pegging.
      I'll up the boost a hair more and we will have a direct comparison I can post.
       
    5. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I have a question on stoich.

      Based on a chart JD4242 posted.
      http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3507737&postcount=624

      Most (Say 90%) gasoline has close to 10% ethanol. I don't even know if we can get gas here without ethanol.
      Wouldn't it be better to tune slightly richer? Maybe 14.3:1 ?
      I mean, stoich is supposed to be max efficiency mixture of the fuel, correct?
       
    6. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      ethanol fuel economy

      Our local pumps are marked "may contain up to 10% ethanol". So the optimum fuel economy and emissions reduction can vary accordingly. With the ethanol subsidies that exist in the US the ethanol content probably stays near the maximum of 10% so 14.1:1 would probably result in better fuel economy. I can still purchase ethanol free premium fuel so I haven't changed the stoichiometric ratio in my tune. As little as I drive my Sport I really don't care about fuel economy.
       
    7. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Stoich

      Greg Banish says to shoot for 14.4, since it is kind of in the middle of 14.13 and 14.7 and most people wont be testing their fuel for ethanol content. That information is off his $250.00 DVD that can be purchased from summit.

      If you want to be exact then you need to measure the ethanol content, at every fill up. JD posted a picture of an ethanol test kit on his ranger thread.
      There are also ethanol sensors, Innovate has one and you can even get a gauge for it.

      I have 14.4 entered into my tune for stoich.
       
    8. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      And, with a few key strokes.....stoich is now 14.4

      Have I said how awesome it is to be able to make your own changes any time you want?
       
    9. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      While I wait for parts (My back is extremely unhappy with me, so its not the end of the world right now), I have been thinking about tuning some more. I know...seems like I have too much time on my hands.

      Anyway, Lean tip in when you step on the throttle quickly.....How do you adjust it?

      I was seeing it in my tune, and I'm pretty sure anyone with a power adder see's it. Problem is, I don't see where it can be adjusted.

      My parts are going to be slower coming than anticipated. I think flowtech inductions is running a bit behind at the moment. Its probably better to purchase from the guy that is really busy rather than the guy that isn't. He's probably busy for a reason.
       
    10. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Just the tip in.....

      The load with failed maf table is supposed to help with lean throttle tip in problems on certain PCM's so you could try that.

      I had lean tip in problems until I added the water/methanol, then it went away.
      I use -25 degree Rainx, it is 40% methanol. I did have to lean out the air/fuel mixture a tad during spray.
       
    11. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Ah, thanks!
      Tim's been a bit pre-occupied with another project. We need to get back on his tuning.
      Step testing is done, but there is still wot to go. Tim did mash the throttle once and Evil just bogged and back fired.
      I think a true wot is in order so that I get some usable log to see whats going on. Im betting it was a lean backfire. Boost comes on so fast with that SC of his, I can see having to richen the maf curve an awful lot.
       
    12. 2000StreetRod

      2000StreetRod Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Altering Open Loop Delay Blending Ramp solved my problem: tip-in blend
       
    13. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Thanks for the info.
      Unfortunately my strategy doesn't seem to have this variable. :(
      Tim's might though. I'll make a point of looking for it.
       

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    14. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      To set up the Failed maf transfer function, It appears it can be built based upon:
      RPM
      TP absolute
      load

      It's probably a good idea to do this anyway, just in case the maf does fail at some point. I think I can start this with some existing logs.
       
    15. vroomzoomboom

      vroomzoomboom Elite Canuck STOCK SUCKS! Elite Explorer

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    16. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Calibrator status

      You may have to have what's called Calibrator status to access stuff in your tune that may seem missing. Some things are blocked from you like VCT tuning and drive by wire if the vehicle had them. Your vehicle doesn't have them. Those two I just use for reference because you could ruin your engine or have the vehicle take off by itself if you screw them up, that's why they are blocked.
      To get calibrator status you are supposed to buy Greg Banish's CD or go to a 1500.00 class. I bought the CD.
       
    17. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Maf

      You have to dial in MAF first(because load is calculated from the MAF). Try not to do things out of order.
       
    18. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      My maf is close, so I started with the data I have. I know it will take a re-adjust. Its obviously a million miles closer than it was now.
      I spent some time with Vroomzoomboom on some remote tuning last night. I doubt he will get out for a drive tonight. The snow's flyin around.
       
    19. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Quick question:
      When working on the load with failed maf table, should I be using TP absolute, or TP relative pid? I was thinking about this and shouldn't I be using tp relative?

      I'm pretty much dialed in on the low load area's, and its raining. I thought I'd focus my attention on failed maf a bit.

      I am still struggling with warm starts. I first added crank air, and hear the motor spin faster, but not start. Now I'm adding crank fuel in 10% increments. It's slow going as testing takes time (motor must be warmish, and have sat for a while).
       

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    20. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      Tp

      I believe it is TP relative for that table, my reasoning is because it has 0 at the bottom and Real TP voltage never hits 0 volts/counts unless there is a problem.
       
    21. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I moved my wiring over to my iat sensor in my lower intake manifold tonight.

      Strange thing is, it reads 100 degree's F with the motor cold. That's not right. It's 70 degree's in the garage, and the motor feels cool. Umm......

      I measured the sensor in my Maf, 28.76k cold. No ambient heating from the motor for sure. Looking at previous data logs, I can see the sensor is reading correctly in livelink.
      I measured the resistance of the sensor in the lower intake, and its just over 5k and reading 144 degree's F with livelink.
      Tomorrow morning, before I leave for work, Ill measure the resistance of the manifold iat sensor.
      Here's a chart that shows what temp to expect the pcm to read at different resistances.
      http://www.aa1car.com/library/air_temp_sensors.htm
      The curve isn't exactly linear, but adding a resistor might make the slight difference where required.

      I'd ignore the manifold sensor and just go with the maf sensor, except I want to spray w/m and I keep reading that this is very bad for your maf, but at the same time I want the sensor to read the cooler temps when spraying. Problem currently is that the manifold iat sensor will cause the pcm to pull timing almost all the time. This just won't do.

      Maybe there's a reason why the iat sensor is no longer installed in a lower intake? I'll log while driving and compare 2 logs, one being with the iat sensor in the maf.
       
      Last edited: June 7, 2016
    22. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      There seems to be about 10k ohms difference between the two sensors when cold. The manifold iat sensor reads higher when cold.
      I don't think this is a problem though. At the temperatures that count, it seems to be accurate.

      I completed a 12psi pass on the highway today. I was logging, so I was looking for an opportunity to do this. iat hit 158 degree's. Not horrible, but they will still climb higher over a full wot pull.

      I'll be able to look at what temp the pcu pulls timing and how much. Maybe some light tweaking there will be a good thing as I think at 158 I have already retarded timing 3 degrees. I could probably move that number up and adjust my borderline knock accordingly.

      There was no detonation heard. Pulled nice and hard. I don't have much timing up top right now. I think I'm at about 19 total, and if the pcu pulls 3 degrees due to temps I'm at 16 total. I'd rather be conservative till my combo if set up perfectly and then inch the timing up.

      I'll be interested what happens with the new faster spooling turbo as far as load at lower rpm goes. I may need to pull more timing in the upper mid load areas.
       
    23. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      Not to beat this iat sensor topic to death, but I'm going to beat this to death. Looking at the wot log, as I ran in to boost for the pass, my iat's kept dropping. They wen't from 126 degree's to 112 in boost. I'm not sure why. I know its colder out, but I am surprised. At 12lbs boost, I expected temps to be going up.

      Oh, and I might very well be re-normalizing my tables. In the tables, max load 1.2 I hit a load of 1.17 during my 5 second pass.

      I don't think it would be wise for me to go much past 12lbs boost. I think this is well past the safe zone of a stock block. If the new turbo can have the boost come on much earlier, and hold 12lbs to red line I'll have a monster on my hands.
       
    24. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I have another odd issue.
      My stft's quit updating at idle, and my wideband reads about 11.
      The smell also tells me Im way rich.

      My initial thought was that since I was tuning via stft, the last time they report is almost 1, then the afr's do so rich that the narrow bands are out of range.

      So, I started tuning idle via wideband, targeting 14.4
      Now, the last time my stft's report thay are at .89 trying to richen up the mixture even though Im running just over 14 afr on my wideband.

      These logs are taken immediately after going for at least a 10 minute drive, and my temperature reads fully warmed up. I was hoping to find some crazy setting like 'idle fuel inrichment', but havn't.

      Anyone have any thoughts on this?
       
    25. 4pointslow

      4pointslow Explorer Torture Tester Elite Explorer

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      I am not getting emails when new postings are happening sometimes. Just saw this.
      Can you send me the datalog?
      If STFT stops adjusting it went into open loop, maybe due to a fault or false temperature readings.
      What were you adjusting in the tune right before this started happening?
       
    26. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      I'm not even sure when it started. my open loop lag is still zero when this occurs. It might have something to do with the oat sensor in the lower intake. the fact that iat's are so much higher, and fall under wot/boosted conditions makes me really question its accuracy in that location.

      I'll send you a log.
       

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