Turbo on 2000 Limited 5.0

Well guys, I don't even have it yet and I'm looking at going turbo.

I think I'll be going STS style with the turbo underneath the the body. I'm hoping I can find room somewhere closer to the front to mount it. If not, I may just go classic style and cut the muffler out and install the turbo in its place.

Tim was kind enough to point me at a turbo for sale locally. I'm checking it out now. I sent the specs to James Henson to see what his thoughts are.

Here's the specs:
t4 F1-68 turbine .68 a/r housing 3" exhaust outlet with a 72mm compressor blade 4inch inlet, 2.5 inch outlet, journal bearing. Also, see compressor map attached. I have a vague understanding, and that concerns me.

Now, the next issue is oil routing.
Oil in to the turbo would be handled from a T off the oil pressure sending unit on the block. Return oil would need a scavenge pump to the top of the oil pan, or in the timing chain cover. The scavenge pump adds quite a bit of cost to the setup. I think saving a few bucks in this area would spell disaster. So, this seems to be the best pump out there:
http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html
Stainless steel oil lines will have to be used. As I read about under cab mounted turbo's oil issues seem to be a huge issue. This is going to require careful thought and routing.

My real issue is routing the air filter and compressed air up to the engine bay.
The frame rails will be the the way. I saw one guy notched out his frame for the plumbing and re-enforced the frame by welding metal around the plumbing line (3 inch or 4 inch hole). I'm concerned about running the two pipes and think this will be the biggest challenge. I really don't want that air filter under the truck.
See what this guy did on his ranger?


As for Maf? Pro-M all the way, in a blow thru design.

Fuel pump, injectors, sct go without saying. I'll be having James put together a care package for me along with the Pro-M.
Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump
Bosch uscar (EV6) 60lb injectors part # 108191

I'll recycle my boost gauge and wide band o2 from my supercharged 4.0 ohv.

I'll be using stainless steel for everything under the truck as rust always seems to be an issue.

Also. intercooling. I learned from my last project that cool intake air is incredibly important. People say on under cabin turbo's you don't really need it as the compressed air cools on the way up. Not good enough for me. Im going to go air/water so I have flexibility as to where I mount the intercooler. This could change, but intercooling of some form is a must.

My eye's are watering at what this is going to cost.

I see 02Limited turbo'd his, but he must have had quite a few issues and fell off the forum.

Not much info on guys completing something like this to be found. All input appreciated.

This will be a long process.

 

[thorney_5]

I have very little hands on knowledge with turbos, just what I've learned from research. That being said, I'm gonna throw out 2 thoughts.

1) turbo spool down. Especially on a rear mount turbo, spool down lubrication upon shutdown could be another issue. Accusump makes a 'turbo after oiler' that maintains oil pressure to the turbo following engine shutdown. Just a thought. You could also have a timer on the turbo oil pump that runs it for, say, 5 seconds after shutdown. The problem is, there isn't much feed without oil pressure from the engine.

EDIT: unless you were carful and didn't "use" the turbo for the last minute or 2 before shutting the engine down

2) You could again run the turbo oil pump momentarily after shutdown to push any oil that may drain back beyond a check valve. this would in theory, prevent turbo seal leakage/drainback. Disadvantage is, this wouldn't work with a spool down oiling system, if at all.

 

[CDW6212R]

Do look into all of this, with the many complications of the remote turbo system and the facts of where the oil source comes from, the turbo oiling is the most critical subject. It has to be right to keep the turbo alive, and control the oil from getting out or burnt, or in the wrong places.

If you did it all from scratch you could place an oil tap source low in the pan, and the turbo oil pump could handle everything. As mentioned about losing pressure with the engine off, getting oil to the turbo for a short time needs careful thought.

 

[Dono]

Yeah, all these subtle things that could mean the difference between success and being plagued with issues are making my head hurt. I've even been reading about STS systems having oil seal smoking issues. I don't think STS puts a valve on the oil inlet side either, and it solved one guys issue.
Honestly, I don't think I'd have an issue letting the truck idle for a minute or two after getting in to it. The turbo probably won't spool up unless I'm harder on the gas and at 2000-2500 rpm. Normal driving (to me...maybe not to someone like Tim )just isn't going to make it spool.
I might look in to a timer to keep the scavenge pump on an extra minute after shut down if I am seeing any oil in the exhaust. I think the check valves will be a great start though.

 

[Dono]

I never really even thought about taping the oil source from the pan, and just using the scavenge pump. Fantastic way of doing it.

The thing that concerns me about doing something like that with the motor in the truck is that it only takes 1 F-up and the motors coming out.
Like you said Don, if I were doing it from scratch that would be a fantastic idea.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Normal driving (to me...maybe not to someone like Tim )

hey, what? :shifty_ey

 

[CDW6212R]

hey, what? :shifty_ey

Me too, if I don't see the tach hit 3000-4000rpm, then it's not me driving it.

 

[Dono]

Ok, nothing real to report here, just lots of money going out the door.

I made a visit to the exhaust shop to make sure we were on the same page. No problem there. I just ordered my flanges, gaskets and a chunk of 3" mandrel bent 90 degree for the tail pipe. seemed to be a good selection here: http://www.mandrel-bends.com

I have my BOV and wastegate.

Also, I uploaded my really crude drawing of what I see the cold side to be (At least I ordered the stuff corresponding the the diagram, so I hope its pretty close). The only issue I see is that James wants the slot style maf welded in to the middle of a straight 18" pipe so the maf reads correctly without too much air turbulance.
This concerns me. I'll try for up top in the engine bay. A possible solution would be to run a 18" length of 3" aluminum under the truck with the maf in it. The issue with that plan is that ther will be an electrical connector not very well protected there. Thats not a good thing.

If I get some 'me' time this weekend, I want to pull my front bumper off and mount my intercooler. I can tuck it low since my intercooler will be even lower. Filling the rad will be a bit difficult, but as long as there are no leaks, it wont be a big deal. I can get rad and pump mounted in preparation of things to come.

Lets see....Oil return..Im whimping out and going to go thru the oil add cap with a oil line quick disconnect. I closed my eye's and pushed the 'buy now' an the turbowerx scavenge pump as its rated for continuous duty. Still made my eyes water spending that much money on a pump though.

I ordered a F-150 gauge pod for my steering column (boost gauge). It came in, and its a piece of crap. It doesn't even have any screw holes to bolt it on. I think I'll cut the pod off of it and glue it on a factory column top from the auto wreckers. I can use glue to glue it on and fill cracks, sand, then paint it. Hopefully it turns out ok.

Whats left to order? James is next. Fuel pump, SCT xcal3, injectors, slot maf, and slot maf adapter. I'll do a removal of the factory cold side and spend a weekend roughing in the new cold side to make sure everythings correct before heading to the exhaust shop.
Then the plan is to have the oil lines roughed so the exhaust shop can install the turbo and plug in the oil lines. Then I'll drive home with the turbo just blowing exit air.
Once home I can install my already sorted out cold side and injectors. Then...Base tune!

Lots of work ahead of me. Maybe the family will go on a holiday with out me.

 

[2000StreetRod]

MAF sensor stress

From the looks of my Lightning MAF sensor I doubt it is metallic. I would be concerned about mounting it in a location where there is a lot of flex stress.

 

[Dono]

Im not going with a lightning maf on this one.
Its going to be a slot maf
http://www.promracing.com/mass-air-meters/pro-m-slot-style-mass-air-sensor.html

Looking under the hood, its not going to be easy getting that intake tube up in to the engine bay. I can see this is going to take a few rounds of part ordering to get it right. Maybe once I pull my stock air intake box I will see a better path.
Loose my washer fluid reservoir? http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169060
Maybe a smaller coolant reservoir tank? http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147582&page=2

Once I have the piping, I'll pull the whole side off and see what fits the best.
Always challenges.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

eek! im getting a nose bleed just thinking about this stuff. your the one that going threw with it!
remember, if you need a hand, you have my number. i am getting my throttle body elbow tomorrow, and putting it on. i might go to gimli this weekend....maybe, but if you need a hand, that place isnt going anywhere.

 

[Dono]

Thanks Tim,
I'll chip away at it, one step at a time. Most of it won't be difficult (I don't think, anyway). Once I have all the right parts, it should be easy.

I might take you up on another eye when trying to route that intake tube though. I really don't want it rubbing on the tire.

Any thoughts on braided oil lines? I really have to question if its worth the expense, an its just the rubber underneath the braiding anyway.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

http://winnipeg.kijiji.ca/c-cars-ve...er-to-trade-for-20-22-rims-W0QQAdIdZ515326050

 

[Dono]

Tim, it's you that's Evil.

Hahaha..

I think I'm on a road that will make more top end power. Those smaller twins would probably spool faster, but make less higher rpm power.

I didn't get anything done on my truck today.

 

[Dono]

My turbowerx scavenge exa-pump showed up today.
First impressions are its a heavy duty pump and looks great.

Upon closer examination, I'm not too happy with the manufacturing quality control.

The inlet and outlet were tapped, and not cleaned up. There is metal shaving bits stuck on the inlet and outlet of the tapped threads. This can't be a good thing. I have an email in to them asking if there will be a warranty issue if I pull the gears out and clean up the inside of the threads. This has to be done before installing the pump. Those metal shavings will end up locking up the gears on the pump or going in to my motor.

 

[Dono]

Well, here's the response from turbowerx. They seem to think those loose pieces of metal are normal. The one picture really shows the loose metal from tapping the threads, I thought. Its actually even worse than the pics show.

"We've never observed nor had an instance of a customer reporting loose metal shavings. The photos appear normal - I would not be concerned about it too much. If on the off-chance the pump has any manufacturing defect we will always cover it under warranty."
...So, turbowerx is very quick to respond, and do stand behind their product.

Any way, I'm cleaning up that aluminum hanging loose. I don't want a pump failure, or aluminum bits being recycled in to the valve cover of my motor. I'm sure a few minutes of work will take one more thing that could go wrong out of the equation.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

was going to say, what about putting a remote oil filter?

 

[Dono]

One of 3 things would happen
1. They stay where they are.
2. Pulled from the inlet side in to the pump gears, possibly jamming the gears
3. The aluminum shavings go right in to the valve cover of the motor

A filter would have to go before, and after the pump, even then the pump could still seize if the inlet side aluminum was drawn in to the pump.
I don't get why turbowerx highly recommended a filter (for $70.00) and then sends me a product that contaminants are just waiting to be pulled in to the pump gears, even if I did use a filter. Something isn't right with this picture. Anyway, it will be a very small project to clean that up.

 

[Dono]

More parts in today.
The flanges for the turbo, and the 2 1/2" L for the tail pipe came in today.
Also, the intercooler and cold piping. My butt's sore from customs. Notice the pictures are taken with me standing up.

I can already see I will need to place another order with Silicone intakes for more cold side stuff.
The intercooler has 3" in and out, so I think I'll go 2" to the intercooler, then run a 18" length of 3" pipe after the intercooler (Still under the truck) where my slot maf will be welded in. This will give plenty of straight pipe so the air won't be turbulent and James will have a fighting chance of tuning.
Then, just below the wheel well, I'll go back to 2" pipe. The 2" pipe is really quite small (Looks really small) and should be easy to get around the wheel well without it hitting the tire anywhere.
Once up in the engine bay, i'll expand to 2 1/2" for the bov, then to 3" the rest of the way to the throttle body.

That intercooler is massive. The heated air is going to spend a ton of time in it cooling off. I'm scratching my head on how to mount it. Between mounting the rad, and the intercooler there will be some issues, Im sure.

 

[jd4242]

More parts in today.
The flanges for the turbo, and the 2 1/2" L for the tail pipe came in today.
Also, the intercooler and cold piping. My butt's sore from customs. Notice the pictures are taken with me standing up.

I can already see I will need to place another order with Silicone intakes for more cold side stuff.
The intercooler has 3" in and out, so I think I'll go 2" to the intercooler, then run a 18" length of 3" pipe after the intercooler (Still under the truck) where my slot maf will be welded in. This will give plenty of straight pipe so the air won't be turbulent and James will have a fighting chance of tuning.
Then, just below the wheel well, I'll go back to 2" pipe. The 2" pipe is really quite small (Looks really small) and should be easy to get around the wheel well without it hitting the tire anywhere.
Once up in the engine bay, i'll expand to 2 1/2" for the bov, then to 3" the rest of the way to the throttle body.

That intercooler is massive. The heated air is going to spend a ton of time in it cooling off. I'm scratching my head on how to mount it. Between mounting the rad, and the intercooler there will be some issues, Im sure.

That a water cooled ic? Thing looks slick.I've always wonder why people go with air to air ones and not water cooled

 

[Dono]

The water adds more complexity with the pump for sure.
The beautiful part is that you can place the intercooler anywhere. In my case, this makes the cold side piping way easier, and there is huge efficiencies gained as there is no boost pressure lost (only like .1 of a lb) as compared to 1 to 2 lbs using an air to air.

The rad I have already says its good for 600hp, so I'm sure it will keep the coolant cool. Reality is the heat is mostly generated under wot, and the air will be cooling on its way from the back of the truck anyway. I'm sure I'll be fine for 1/4 mile pass, or the dyno. This also means I'm more than fine for street use also.