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Turboexplorer's Full Width SAS Build Thread

Discussion in 'Offroad Projects' started by turboexplorer, March 7, 2012.

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    1. turboexplorer

      turboexplorer Elite Explorer

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      Yes it was tight, no in and out play at all or even any run out on the flange but its all that is left so replacing it all. Fun Fun, this issue has been terrible to track down. (Crossed fingers) Last place to look.
       
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    3. turboexplorer

      turboexplorer Elite Explorer

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      Got all my new parts today! :) Nice new gears, shiny Ford racing pinion flange, install kit. I'm set to set this thing up again this weekend. I also took apart the locker and inspected, its perfect not a single issue not even a scratch. Can't believe there isn't even a single sign of it wearing at all with it having to turn 37's through 5.13's.

      Anyways I am both really excited to get this all done and fix the issue and nervous at the same time if it doesn't. Positive thinking, can't wait to have the truck back!!!!!!!!!!! :D
       
    4. turboexplorer

      turboexplorer Elite Explorer

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      Well quick update, got the gears installed on Thursday. Was excited and then went to drive it and any guesses?
       
    5. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Torsion Bar Free Elite Explorer

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      I want to say the best thing possible, and say the vibration/clunk is gone.

      But with all you have been thru with that drive shaft, and everything else, I'm afraid to !!
       
    6. turboexplorer

      turboexplorer Elite Explorer

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      Yeah I hoped for the best as well. Sadly no luck :(

      Still the exact same no change. I am so frustrated and bummed by this issue. I have now spent a $ grand chasing this issue. And am no closer, sad part is that is just parts. That doesn't count the time and labor involved in drive shafts, transfer case, rear diff, no use of the truck. I'm past being upset by it and am just wanting my truck back. I'm also bummed because the money spent on fixing it isn't an issue if it fixed it. But since it hasn't I'm upset because my wife has been wanting a new bed or dining room table that I could have bought with it.

      I am all out of ideas. I don't now what else to do for now. So since the truck is being naughty I stuck it outside for 2 days and nights in the rain. (Did my brothers big turbo swap on his 2014 Focus ST this weekend, that's why I had to set gears on Thursday) Truck is now tucked back inside in the garage tightly off to the side. Will leave it for now I think as to get other projects done around the house so I can feel productive about something for a bit.

      Wish I had a lift so I could safely run it at speed and check things or on a dyno and check things. Still feels like a drive shaft vibration so I'm lost.

      Guess I could just drive it until whatever has the issue just let's go lol. I'll try and think of a few other possibilities and guess keep looking. :(
       
    7. gmanpaint

      gmanpaint Torsion Bar Free Elite Explorer

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      All I can guess would be the drive shaft is still messed up causing the vibrations.

      As far as the clunk, have you re-torqued the U-bolts since you installed the new leaf packs? I mark mine against the axle tube and check for movement every now & then. Just a thought.
       
    8. Kirby N.

      Kirby N. Well-Known Member

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      This! Drive it man. If it's something important it will get worse or break.
       
    9. sirhk100

      sirhk100 Well-Known Member

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      I run our race truck up to pretty crazy speeds in overdrive parked on jackstands in my garage on occasion. Just make sure it's sitting very secure on LARGE stands and go for it. I haven't made the blooper reals yet...
       
    10. j_mazala

      j_mazala Member

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      Haven't read through the whole thread but are your drive shaft angles still in check? Pinion/tcase in relation to each other and max operating angle?

      Try removing front drive shaft and putting tcase in 4hi to see if it may be a shift fork related issue

      Also try removing rear drive shaft and putting tcase in 4hi to see if noise changes
       
    11. turboexplorer

      turboexplorer Elite Explorer

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      I really hope the drive shaft is out as being a possibility since It has been redone 4 times now. Not even a change with any of them so with 2 shafts 1 being redone 3 times and 1 100% new one I don't think that is the issue.

      Clunk while turning hard was the drive shaft bumping the tank. The trans mount has enough play for it to shift over to the side and bump the tank. Takes a fair bit to get it over there but again was cornering very hard. I have since clearanced the tank but haven't driven it hard enough to check it. But when pryed off to the side the case hits the tank support bracket before shaft can bump the tank so should be impossible for it to hit now.

      I am about to that point! It is terrible and something will let go for sure, it really wouldn't take long for it to show itself but dont want it to damage anything else in the process.

      I only have lame small ones that aren't even high enough to leave the tires on the truck. Then I have those really big ones that even at the lowest setting are way higher than I can get the axle and would be 3 feet off the ground even if I could.

      Yes all the angles are perfect and don't have an issue. They have been gone over thoroughly and even changed several times and still not a single change in the vibration.

      I have ran it in the 4 hi without front shaft and vibration is the same. Run it in full 4WD with hubs locked and with them unlocked and vibration is still the same.

      Vibration is not in there when the rear drive shaft is removed but is there when either drive shaft is there. With load with/o load doesn't matter. Just redid the rear gears 100% new bearings and races and a full new gear set and new rear pinion flange. No change in vibration at all.


      So its not in the rear diff, rear shaft has been done enough times to eliminate that, ran it without a ring gear locker axles brakes tires etc, I have been through the transfer case and it looked great.

      I'm lost.
      Only thought I've had the last few days that would be consistent is what if the rear output shaft of the transfer case is bent? It would explain why no matter what I have done it has stayed the same. Would also explain why it doesn't vibrate with/o the rear drive shaft as it would just be wobbling without anything so it just spins there free. But when the drive shaft it on it it forces the shaft to wobble slightly and the yoke then rubs on the tail housing bushing causing the issue. I looked online and found a few on F-150 forums that have had similar issues. vibration at 50-60 the no matter what they redid was still there. Ended up being the output shaft, also a few similar scenarios with the jeep guys before they do the slip yoke eliminator kits.

      It's my only thought. Also couldn't tell when the case was apart since there is so many different heights of machined surfaces its impossible to really tell.

      Any thoughts? Think this week I'll pull the rear drive shaft again and watch the rear output shaft spin, as I haven't personally watched it yet.
       
    12. BKennedy

      BKennedy Elite Loser Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      All I can say is I'm sorry, and I wish I could think of the solution. I'm stumped. If it is the output shaft, is it cheaper to get a whole new case? If so, would be a good time to change to a NP231 or 241. I have the 231 and really like the gearing and the Teraflex 2 low conversion. I got mine with a AA slip yoke eliminator already installed for $300. The NP 241 has a 4:1 low range. The junk yards are full of them, and there is a lot of aftermarket stuff.
       
    13. 4wheeltom

      4wheeltom Member

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      might be a long shot, but if your tranny mount has that much play in it maybe it has something to do with it. Might be exaggerating the normal function of the u-joint
       
    14. Maginley

      Maginley Member

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      wow just killed some time this evening reading through this thread. what a great write up and documentation of this build!! seriously dude you really own the phrase built not bought. probably one of the nicest EXs ive seen on here. inspired me to start working on building up my ex again. keep on building and wheelin man!!!
       
    15. boominXplorer

      boominXplorer Elite Ranger Elite Explorer

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      Is your new shaft a double cardon also? I swear my old vibration was just the fact of a double cardon joint on the 4406 slip yoke. A D/C joint has a much greater rotating mass and any play in the slip could cause a vibration. All slip yokes have some play, its the nature of the beast.
       
    16. Accarguy

      Accarguy Active Member

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      Can you tell me where you got these headlights and the HIDs from?
       
    17. turboexplorer

      turboexplorer Elite Explorer

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    18. turboexplorer

      turboexplorer Elite Explorer

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      I have the 4R70W trans so it would be a bit extra work for either of those cases I think from the little I looked on them, not positive though.

      It really isn't weak I would have to show you a picture to see how tight the 4406 is in there with a Double Cardon and its just a fitment issue not really a weak mount issue. But however I have corrected that so shouldn't be an issue moving forward.

      Thanks I appreciate it! Can't wait to get out wheeling again. Been far overdue.

      Yes it is a Double Cardon. In theory it should be the better and smoother option. I do agree that the weight would exaggerate any issue and if the mass would be less would be better as well since it is a very fast rotating weight. Ford did run several versions with the Double Cardon on the 4406 and didn't have an issue. I also ran it for 7,000 miles and never once had an issue until the issue lol. Been a crazy few weeks so Explorer has just been left alone since its fully together and it can be moved. I am really wanting to get it out and stretch its legs. Wish I had a better drive to get it repaired but don't look forward to further headache chasing things down.

      I did go to several junkyards 2 weekends ago looking for cases that I can swap over so its 100% a different case to eliminate all possibilities. But each manual shift case I found had been moved by a forklift and the fork had lifted the trucks by the rear drive line and they where badly bent so if that's a reason for my issue I didn't want to chance it so didn't end up pulling any of the cases, wasn't interested in swapping possible issues for the same issues.

      May go look again this weekend if I have some time.
       
    19. Accarguy

      Accarguy Active Member

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      Awesome thanks. Do you think you can post some pictures with the hids in? We're they a direct fit or did you have to do some modifications?
       
    20. FR-425

      FR-425 Used to be a road here. Elite Explorer

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      So, bent shaft, had rebuilt, vibrates, rebuilt again, vibrates, rebuilt again, vibrates, on and on.

      Did not vibrate before the damage. All other possibilities eliminated.

      And still I have to say it's the drive shaft. I hope you have another choice for a shop near by.
       
    21. Kirby N.

      Kirby N. Well-Known Member

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      In disagree. If tom woods sent you one that's money. Nothing but good things heard and experienced from them everytime.

      On the chomos for the fw 8.8, they are available I have seen them on full size broncs. I almost bought an fa bronco axle with a set of mosers in it. I bet if you call yukon or another manufacterer they would have them.
       
    22. turboexplorer

      turboexplorer Elite Explorer

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      I have had the first drive shaft redone 3 times and then ordered the 100% new Tom Woods shaft and the vibration didn't change at all so between all the changes including a 100% new shaft I hope that is eliminated.

      Maybe I will have to look further for full width 8.8 shaft options when I get this issue figured out.


      Think I have no choice but to do a new transfer case for the truck. I pulled the rear drive line and ran it and cant see the rear transfer case output shaft bent visually so really I am completely stumped. No idea, now I need to go to bigger changes I guess (as if new gear sets, rebuilt detroit, new shaft, went through case isn't enough) So will swap out the whole case and go from there. If it is still there I will follow the path of [MENTION=12558]boominXplorer[/MENTION] and go to a standard rear drive line and see if that's an issue. for that I REALLY wish I would have kept the Expedition rear shaft I had in it before the SAS as I could swap that in and change rear pinion angle and see if that's an issue. I no longer have that shaft as I figured I wouldn't need one.

      :(
       
    23. sirhk100

      sirhk100 Well-Known Member

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      I would think with the speeds your output shaft, driveshaft and pinion are spinning, even just the slightest bend that you can't visibly see would still be felt. I know my local driveline shop balances their driveshafts at 4000 rpm. Seems your shaft is not the issue though with all the replacements you've done of it. Very slightly tweaked output shaft or pinion though maybe?
       
    24. turboexplorer

      turboexplorer Elite Explorer

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      I installed a new gear set and there was no change so it isn't the pinion shaft. Only thing left is the transfer case.
       
    25. MidnightRebel07

      MidnightRebel07 Elite Explorer

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      Time for an atlas II.
       
    26. sirhk100

      sirhk100 Well-Known Member

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      Yup, there it is... Atlas 2 is your only solution! LOL
       

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