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U.S. Expands Probe Into Ford Explorers Over Carbon Monoxide Concerns

Discussion in 'Stock 2011 - 2018 Ford Explorer Discussion' started by Sixonemale, July 28, 2017.


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    1. dragonexplorer12

      dragonexplorer12 Active Member

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      This is a very good observation. I'm from the Philippines and we drive with AC on all the time. We also use AC under RECIRC since air outside is not so pleasant unlike in the US.

      That exhaust fume smell comes in most noteworthy when all windows are up and AC on RECIRC. Before the TSB 12-12-04, you can get a whiff of that smell right away when you suddenly accelerate from 2500RPM to 3500RPM.

      My dad has a 2017 Chevy Suburban and that SUV does not get any SMELL whatsoever even under WOT. So yeah, MR. GUBING, it's right of you to say you have no idea about their design but you do on the Explorer.

      Another Explorer owner here has a CO meter in his vehicle. It registered 30 ppm. I googled 30 ppm and here is what it showed: "30 ppm - Earliest onset of exercise-induced angina (World Health Organization)".

      If you have that exhaust fume smell, then it would be best to register it with the NHTSA. We don't have that kind of agency here in the Philippines, but if a considerable number of complaints have been filed there then it would reach here. All the Explorer units we have here are completely built units (CBU) from the US. Any recall there would also be applied there.

      For the record, I have not modified my Explorer at all and yes my unit has that smell.
       
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    3. Dfred

      Dfred Active Member

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      I got my Explorer back from the dealer late last night it took longer than was originally planned because Ford added a procedure to the latest TSB and they had to wait on the parts which was some kind of new sealant. I saw the Explorer in the shop and the entire back of the vehicle was taken apart, including the lift gate. I could make the vehicle get the rotten egg smell almost on demand before the TSB was done. So I will see in the upcoming days if it is fixed or not.
       
    4. peterk9

      peterk9 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      I believe the "rotten egg smell" is a different issue. It is linked more to the catalytic converter and/or possibly the level of sulphur in the gasoline you use. That smell has been around ever since the catalytic converter was introduce. It is not isolated to the Explorer. Since the cabin is not a sealed unit, some of that smell is bound to make its way into it but it is not something that should linger. There is a separate thread on this issue.

      Peter
       
    5. Michael W

      Michael W New Member

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      This is making me rethink my plan to buy a MY'18 this October. I am now considering a Yugo or Trabant.
       
    6. peterk9

      peterk9 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      This Yugo would be nice. Have you looked at the VW Atlas?

      Peter

      yugo.jpg
       
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    7. Dfred

      Dfred Active Member

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      Well put 200 hard miles on the Explorer after the TSB....... tried as hard as I could to get the smell and the co2 detector to go off..... nothing..... and last week I would have had to roll the windows down........ I'm not saying it's fixed, but in my case it seems to be so far.....
       
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    8. Michael W

      Michael W New Member

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      VW's are "mom" cars.
       
    9. Jack Daniel

      Jack Daniel Guest

      People say that about the Explorer also.
       
    10. Michael W

      Michael W New Member

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      Explorer es mas macho!
       
    11. Jack Daniel

      Jack Daniel Guest

      Todo en la mente mi amigo
       
    12. blwnsmoke

      blwnsmoke Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      More upfitter issues..

      B99563072Z.1_20170809094440_000_G3H1JKOIA.1-0.jpg
       
    13. timoconn

      timoconn New Member

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    14. aznkidlee

      aznkidlee Active Member

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      I drive a 2012 with 82500 miles. The only time I have noticed the exhaust smell is when I'm sitting in Boston traffic with my windows open. Knock on wood, I have set to smell anything with windows closed and AC on. This type of news gets me nervous. I purchased my 2012 Explorer brand new and it is used daily to haul the family.
       

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    15. Tom Howard

      Tom Howard New Member

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      Thank you very much for your reports. I'm going to schedule mine for the TSB update. I've measured as high as 19 ppm CO along with the smell after hard acceleration.

      By the way, were you really using a co2 detector or a co detector? They are often confused. CO is what you want to detect in this case.
       
    16. 1995E

      1995E Elite Explorer

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      I think I have actually suffered some sort of brain damage as a result of the carbon monoxide fumes over time. I have trouble communicating and it's getting worse when I commute with the Explorer. Who else lives in the MD area? I'd like to meet with other owners and possibly get a whole private investigation going and possible litigation because Ford has known about this issue for a long time.
       
    17. KayGee

      KayGee Member

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      What type of equipment were you using? I was looking at the Pocket CO 300, but at $149/ea, it's a little pricey to buy a few of them.

      I want to get a decent battery operated CO detector with display to check all of my vehicles, but the exposure limits seem to vary greatly as to what is acceptable.

      OSHA says Maximum permissible exposure in workplace is 50ppm.

      EPA has set two national health protection standards for CO: a one-hour TWA of 35 PPM, and an eight-hour TWA of 9 PPM.

      Kidde says "For a person to begin feeling the effects of carbon monoxide poisoning, they would need to be exposed to a carbon monoxide level of 50 parts per million (PPM) for eight hours.". According to Kidde it takes 10 hours to set of their alarms at levels of 40ppm.
       
    18. Tom Howard

      Tom Howard New Member

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      KayGee: I have a Sensorcon Inspector, and I see their website now mentions the Explorer on their home page. This is a meter with a response time of 5 seconds, which is necessary because the results from hard acceleration dissipate quickly. Like you note, a home type CO alarm (as opposed to meter), averages levels over several hours. It won't work for a quick spurt like this. I have used a meter like this for several years, testing around the water heater and furnace at home, and in several automobiles. I've never registered any CO in a vehicle except for this Explorer. The Sensorcon is the cheapest I'm aware of with acceptable response time.

      I agree, different agencies list different acceptable exposure limits, but no exhaust fumes should get inside the cabin with windows up and doors closed. I've confirmed that in other cars.
       
    19. KayGee

      KayGee Member

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      I should have specified CO meter vs. detector. I looked at several meters including the Sensorcon unit you mention, which is a little better price than the Pocket CO 300.

      Since all vehicles have fresh air intakes and body vents that allow outside smells (skunk/exhaust/other) to make their way into a car, I guess I assumed that there were plenty of opportunities for some levels of CO to make its way into all vehicles, especially if in heavy traffic/congestion or other areas of poor air quality.

      I have also heard that cars are less susceptible to CO intrusion from rear body vents because they have a trunk separating the rear of the vehicle and cabin. I wonder if things change when rear seats are folded down and the trunk is exposed to the passenger cabin. I guess I'll have to do some tests on all of my vehicles when I get my meter.

      What kind of readings were you seeing after hard acceleration and how quickly did it dissipate? Did your meter provide total and average exposure over a longer time period of driving? If so, what kind of total and average results did you find after some longer periods of driving.
       
    20. Sixonemale

      Sixonemale Active Member

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      In the following video they measured 9 PPM in front and 30 PPM in back once the Explorer went over 40 MPH:

      http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/l...Making-Them-Sick_Washington-DC-443133203.html

      There is unquestionably a problem that has been overlooked for six years and needs to be globally addressed IMO.
       
      Last edited: September 13, 2017
    21. Tom Howard

      Tom Howard New Member

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      KayGee> "What kind of readings were you seeing after hard acceleration and how quickly did it dissipate? Did your meter provide total and average exposure over a longer time period of driving? If so, what kind of total and average results did you find after some longer periods of driving."

      The highest I have seen is 19 ppm. It takes several minute to dissipate. Sometimes there's no smell or CO after hard acceleration. I always have the climate control on auto. The meter has a max mode to keep the highest reading in the display, but no total or average functions. I see maybe 5 ppm sometimes under normal driving, but usually 0 to 3. The meter is accurate to about +/- 5 ppm, so that doesn't necessarily mean there's CO, but I have used it in other cars and never saw anything but zero.
       
    22. 4ksk416

      4ksk416 New Member

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      Does anyone know what are the acceptable PPM readings inside a vehicle when being driven? I am about to purchase a CO Pocket Meter and would like to know. Thanks.
       
      Last edited: September 14, 2017
    23. KayGee

      KayGee Member

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      Do you recall any of the readings from your home furnace or water heater? Have you directly measured CO levels at the tailpipe or near streets with varying levels of traffic for an idea of the CO levels you may be exposed to throughout your day for comparison purposes?

      I would think it would vary greatly depending on what traffic conditions are, what outside air quality is like, and other factors. If you are in stop and go, rush hour traffic in an area with air quality issues and the HVAC system is pulling in fresh air, I would expect it to be worse than being in a rural setting with good air quality. My meter is supposed to arrive in a few days and I'll be running some tests around my house, workplace, all of my vehicles and when I'm out and about to see what kind of readings I get.
       
    24. peterk9

      peterk9 Staff Member Moderator Elite Explorer

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      Welcome to the Forum.:wave:
      I know that it has been discussed in the forum but it can also be easily found by doing an Internet search. That is how I initially found it.

      Peter
       
    25. Tom Howard

      Tom Howard New Member

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      I got zero at my furnace and water heater. They have exhaust stacks so should be zero. I have measured CO in the garage after I started a car (garage door open) and got around 30 ppm.
       
      Last edited by a moderator: September 14, 2017
    26. KayGee

      KayGee Member

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      Assuming there aren't any issues, I hope my furnace/water heater are also 0 or very close to it. My furnace had developed some flame rollout issues likely due to a cracked heat exchanger, so it was replaced not long ago with a new one, but it hasn't been tested.

      I guess where I was going with things was that if I can expect to be exposed to varying CO levels on a daily basis because:
      of my proximity to cars that are started/idling (garage or parking lot)
      I am around a campfire or cooking on a gas grill or gas stove
      I am boating/tubing/etc...
      I am cutting the grass or using other gas powered lawn equipment
      I am exposed to other sources of CO, like being around smokers or a smoking area

      I guess I'm not sure what levels of CO I may be exposed to in a given day or for how long, so hopefully I will find out when my meter arrives and see if any of my vehicles are adding that exposure level/time. I don't typically accelerate hard or WOT at all, so I hope CO levels in my vehicles are low/close to 0 for the majority of my driving.

      If it turns out that any of my vehicles are regularly emitting higher levels of CO (say 9-30ppm or more) and occupants are being exposed for long enough durations to cause issues, or I find out that any other daily activities are exposing me to more CO than I'd like, than I will be concerned. Hopefully my meter shows up on schedule so I can do some testing in my vehicles, home, work, etc... to see if I have any issues that need to be addressed.
       
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