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Unsolvable Explorer Rough Idle. Any OBD II experts?

Discussion in 'Under the Hood' started by Cashcrazy, October 26, 2016.

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    1. Cashcrazy

      Cashcrazy Active Member

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      I'll pull oil pan on my next oil change. The 4.0 intake is nothing like a 350. It's literally six orings and I replaced them less than 1000 miles ago. I don't know the material but it's a synthetic material not cork.
       
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    3. MostlyNewExplorer

      MostlyNewExplorer Member

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      Never pulled my intake, but O-rings shouldn't cost much.
       
    4. Autolabs

      Autolabs New Member

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      I'm sure you will be fine reusing the gasket if it doesn't get damaged in the process. Personally I would motor vac it before putting in higher mileage junk yard unknown condition injectors in it, but maybe something might change for the better or worse.
      If you feel the need to change o2 sensors go for the upstream. I'm not sure how much fuel trim authority the downstream has on yours, but I'm sure it is not much, mostly just converter monitoring.
      What is most important to you, fixing this with the least amount of money, or to be the one who fixed it? If it is the 1st one than I would start with getting it professionally analyzed or diagnosed that comes with a guarantee and then perform the work yourself.
      Obd data stream is great for starting the diagnostics, but far from the end. Your looking for the needle in the haystack and if properly interpreted, it can at least cut the hay stack in half if not more. Without us being able to see, hear, feel, and smell your complaint, it makes it impossible for anyone to accurately tell you what the root cause is here. A cylinder contribution test would also be money well spent.
      If you do decide to have a professional diagnose it, make sure they feel what you feel to verify your complaint and flat out ask them if they think they're skilled enough with the proper tooling to find the root cause. And please, please close this almost double digit page thread with a detailed fix. Nobody wants to watch a 3 hour movie to find out the ending has been cut out.
       
    5. Cashcrazy

      Cashcrazy Active Member

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      I just want it fixed. I took it to ford and they looked me in the eyes and said, "This generation just idles rough. There is nothing wrong with it." I know darn well this idle isn't normal and no explorer would have left the new car lot running like this. I am going to replace the O2 sensor and probably pull the intake again to get a better look at the injectors. If nothing changes I will send to another mechanic.
       
    6. MostlyNewExplorer

      MostlyNewExplorer Member

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    7. Cashcrazy

      Cashcrazy Active Member

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      MostlyNewExplorer- I hope my timing chain doesn't have that much slack with 58k.

      At this point I believe it's probably the ECM.
       
    8. Centaurus5.0

      Centaurus5.0 Elite 5.0L Fiddler

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      Are you sure it ain't the tires?

      I had a set of bad ones on an old Explorer and the the truck idled like a popcorn machine. Put some good ones on and Viola!, it ran good as new! I couldn't believe it!

      Then again, I changed the injectors on it the same day. But I think that was just a coincidence though...



      Tires.

      :popcorn:
       
    9. MostlyNewExplorer

      MostlyNewExplorer Member

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      If you do some research you'll find they're prone to going bad with less miles on them. I've been driving mine for 7 years with slack in the rear chain. It has a sporadic idle also. The guides crack and pieces break off. Pulling the oil pan is the easiest way to tell if that's the problem, because you'll find pieces of the nylon guides in the pan.

      If that's too much trouble, then good luck.
       
    10. MostlyNewExplorer

      MostlyNewExplorer Member

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      :crazy:
      I had a neighbor who said the same thing, but he was :drunk: and kind of :crazy:
       
    11. Centaurus5.0

      Centaurus5.0 Elite 5.0L Fiddler

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      Maybe he was sober and just being facetious?
       
    12. MostlyNewExplorer

      MostlyNewExplorer Member

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      Maybe he was, but he didn't have a 13 year old explorer with only 58k miles on it.

      I'm thinking that the speedometer head has been swapped out on that thing at some point, and who knows how many miles the engine actually has on it?
       
    13. Centaurus5.0

      Centaurus5.0 Elite 5.0L Fiddler

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      I bought a truck thats 20 years old with 58k on it.

      When vehicles sit for long periods, the fuel degrades and breaks down creating a varnish that will clog the injector's filters and nozzles.

      Refurbished injectors are $110 off ebay and they come with new O-rings. He had the flipping intake off and they were right there!

      But then again, maybe he should try putting a 3rd balancer on or drop the oil pan or check the voltage to his (inset random sensor here) or any other of the 8 pages of bullshit you talked this poor guy into, TO FIX A ROUGH IDLE!? :rolleyes:
       
      Last edited: November 25, 2016
    14. MostlyNewExplorer

      MostlyNewExplorer Member

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      The only thing I talked him into was pulling the oil pan.

      You bought a truck that's 20 years old that had only 58k miles on it. What a coincidence.:rolleyes:
       
    15. Centaurus5.0

      Centaurus5.0 Elite 5.0L Fiddler

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      You must be new here...
       
    16. Cashcrazy

      Cashcrazy Active Member

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      I'm back to it. The injectors are clean. I was hoping to see carbon buildup but they are spotless. I was going to have them cleaned, but rockauto had a closeout on the OEM Bosch replacements for less than having them cleaned so I'll be adding new injectors to the list. The resistance on the new ones are lower which is a good thing since the old ones were all just under the upper spec.

      [​IMG]

      Just a note for anyone that may replace explorer injectors. The injectors sit in a hard rubber "adapter". I have replaced injectors before and the oring went directly into the block. The adapter pulled out with every injector and was hard, brittle, and four cracked in half. I highly recommend anyone replacing the injectors go ahead and order a set of the adpters in advance so you don't end up stranded. Part number below.
      [​IMG]
       
      Last edited: December 2, 2016
    17. Cashcrazy

      Cashcrazy Active Member

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      All of the new adapters and fuel injectors are installed. The injectors clicked right into place with little effort with everything being new. I'm glad Rockauto decided to put these injectors on closeout so I could rule out the issue. However the idle is still rough. My idea bank is exhausted and I am going to accept that this is an unsolved mystery. I did gain knowledge on fuel injection and modern sensors that I never learned as an old school V8 hobbyist. I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions along the way!
       
    18. Cashcrazy

      Cashcrazy Active Member

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      Just for humor here is the current list of items I have replaced.


      New fuel cap

      New Air Filter

      New Motorcraft fuel filter

      Sent to dealer and they could not find a problem and claims it has the latest software installed.

      New spark plugs and wires

      New IAC

      New PCV

      New MAF

      New bank 1 and bank 2 downstream o2 sensor

      New intake gaskets(I have changed these twice. No change either time)

      New valve cover gaskets

      Tested EGR valve with vacuum pump. Holds pressure and stalls when too much vacuum applied

      Fuel pressure at 65 PSI

      Swapped out fuel pressure damper on fuel rail with junk yard replacement(no change)

      New crank position sensor

      Swapped cam position sensor with Motorcraft branded one from junkyard (no change)

      Swapped out coil pack with Motorcraft branded junkyard replacement (no change)

      New Bosch fuel injectors (originals were spotless but wanted to rule out trash inside an injector)

      Ran Marvel Mystery Oil with engine oil for about 200 miles (no change).

      Tested Compression
       
    19. Cashcrazy

      Cashcrazy Active Member

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      I have a new set of questions relating to the ignition system. I am not overly familiar with the 4.0 SOHC ignition system, but from my reading it looks like spark is sent to two cylinders at the same time. Has anyone ever had the spark become weak on just one side? Does the coil pack contain just one ignition coil or does it have three(one for each leg)? Is there a way to test the switching signal from the ECM to make sure something isn't off here? I assume I do not have a separate ignition module since this is controlled by the ECM?

      I ordered a spark tester (OTC 6589) that I hope will diagnose a weak or inconsistent spark. I swapped the coil with a junkyard Motorcraft coil and did not have a change so I do not think the coil is the issue.
       
    20. MostlyNewExplorer

      MostlyNewExplorer Member

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      Does your explorer have cruise control? Sometimes the linkage can get out of adjustment and make the idle wonky.
       
    21. Cashcrazy

      Cashcrazy Active Member

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      Yes it has cruise, but I believe that is electronic.
       
    22. MostlyNewExplorer

      MostlyNewExplorer Member

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      Well, nothing ever goes wrong with electronics.

      Anyway, there has to be a mechanical connection to the throttle for the cruise control to operate, there is an adjustment there, and it can cause idle problems.
       
    23. Cashcrazy

      Cashcrazy Active Member

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      I had to replace a sensor that would not allow the cruise control to work about a year ago. I have disconnected the two mechanical cables with no change. The only other part I know of is the TPS sensor which seems to be operating properly by looking at its voltages.
       
    24. MostlyNewExplorer

      MostlyNewExplorer Member

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      Can you make a video of the vehicle idling, with the hood up looking into the engine so we can hear it?

      I'm too lazy to go back and read the beginning of this post, so; is the engine rough only at idle or do you notice a miss anywhere else during acceleration?
       
    25. Cashcrazy

      Cashcrazy Active Member

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      It's only at idle and I don't think you will be able to hear it on a video but I can try
       
    26. Cashcrazy

      Cashcrazy Active Member

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      Last edited: December 13, 2016

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