Water pump failure leads to dead engine

[sheltonfilms]

Ford used to have coolant sensors in their vehicles. 1996 Mustang had one. They even had a oil level sensor that drove me absolutely nuts. If you parked on an incline for more than 5 minutes it would turn the light on for the whole next drive cycle.

Here is my plan on this since I plan to keep the vehicle to 250k miles:

Pressure test cooling system periodically (like as often as I check tire pressure).
At 150k miles, just do a preventative water pump, chain, tensioner, idler replacement. (I do 100% of maintenance myself so costs don't worry me).

 

[peterk9]

My guess is that Ford is not the only auto company that has an engine with an internal water pump design, but is probably the largest auto company that mass produces this design. From an older post in this thread: “The internal water pump has the potential to affect all model year 2007-2014 Ford vehicles containing a Duratec 35 (3.5 liter) engine, including: 2007-2014 Ford Edge, 2007-2010 Lincoln MKX, 2007-2014 Lincoln MKZ, 2008-2014 Ford Taurus, 2008-2009 Ford Taurus X, 2008-2009 Mercury Sable, 2009-2004 Ford Flex, 2012-2012 Ford Fusion Sport, and 2011-2014 Ford Explorer." The year 2014 could now be replaced with 2017 on some or all of these vehicles. As you can see the internal water pump engine design is not that old, about 10 years old.

I'm guessing again, but I think the Explorer owners might be more sophisticated owners from a mechanical/maintenance perspective than let's say other Ford vehicle owners, plus many of the 5th generation Explorer owners have owned previous generation Explorers and know how past Explorer engines performed and understand the costs to maintain them.

It seems that the design must have changed in some of these vehicles since they end on different model years. I and I'm sure the majority of owners were not aware of the internal water pump design. In any case, mine is not on the list nor will it prevent me from getting another Explorer. The nice thing is that my vehicles are leased and always under warranty.

Peter

 

[RandyH2]

<Not directed at anyone in particular, just an observation.>
You don't think Ford is in business to make cars last forever, do you?

 

[Sixonemale]

Here is my plan on this since I plan to keep the vehicle to 250k miles:

Pressure test cooling system periodically (like as often as I check tire pressure).
At 150k miles, just do a preventative water pump, chain, tensioner, idler replacement. (I do 100% of maintenance myself so costs don't worry me).

Sheltonfilms, What will be your exact procedure that you will use to conduct a pressure test of the cooling system?

 

[Ck83]

What we see and read on this board are generally posts from males that take care and look after their vehicles. What we don't have is true sample of overall population that owns these vehicles, more specifically we are missing a lot of female owners. Also, those who lease or sell these vehicles before 90,000 miles or so, will probably never see this issue, with the exception of a few cases which we have read about. With that said, it will be interesting to see how both the water pumps and turbos perform over time, especially once the vehicles get into the 125,000 mile plus category. My bet is that you will hear much more about both of these components.

Bought my 2011 Taurus just a year ago it now has 120,000 miles on it so I understand that's high but I'm experiencing the same issue with the water pump failure right now, low end estimated cost is $1500 and that's just hoping that's the only damage! There are other forums out there now with people complaining of this problem. I understand things go wrong but $1500-$2000 to replace a water pump is just absurd.

 

[NCStatePack]

Bought my 2011 Taurus just a year ago it now has 120,000 miles on it so I understand that's high but I'm experiencing the same issue with the water pump failure right now, low end estimated cost is $1500 and that's just hoping that's the only damage! There are other forums out there now with people complaining of this problem. I understand things go wrong but $1500-$2000 to replace a water pump is just absurd.

It is very absurd. I'm still upset about my repair and it was in January!

 

[Ck83]

It is very absurd. I'm still upset about my repair and it was in January!

I'm working on a trade in quote, I know we will take a huge loss but at least that's not straight out of pocket right now, I'm afraid of getting the bad news that my engine needs replaced as well, they said they wouldn't know until they take it apart and start working on it. It's actually sitting at a Buick dealership right now cause they were the closest to me when it started acting up but they won't touch it said I need to take it to Ford

 

[JAPeterson]

The problem that I see is that people are used to a water pump being out in the open where you remove 6 or so bolts and pull it off. That isn't going to happen on these engines. You have to figure in all the time that it takes just to get to the water pump and then the time to put all these parts back on.

I am sure that if the pump was still exposed and easy to get to then the cost to replace them would reflect it.

 

[SimonW]

Do we know if Ford has done anything to improve the design of this water pump to make it less likely to fail, or is a 3.5 built in 2017 just as likely to see this issue as a 3.5 built in 2011?
Thanks
Simon

 

[peterk9]

Do we know if Ford has done anything to improve the design of this water pump to make it less likely to fail, or is a 3.5 built in 2017 just as likely to see this issue as a 3.5 built in 2011?
Thanks
Simon

Can't say for sure but the part numbers are the same. Even for the 3.5L Ecoboost. Note that I compared 2011 to 2016 as there was no listing yet for 2017's.

Peter

 

[sheltonfilms]

Sheltonfilms, What will be your exact procedure that you will use to conduct a pressure test of the cooling system?

Use a cooling system pressure tester like this. Just pump it up to like 15 psi and check for the gauge to drop in pressure and also listen for hisses and leaks at the weep hole.

 

[Sixonemale]

The problem that I see is that people are used to a water pump being out in the open where you remove 6 or so bolts and pull it off. That isn't going to happen on these engines. You have to figure in all the time that it takes just to get to the water pump and then the time to put all these parts back on.

Fully understand that you have to figure in all of the labor for the total cost to replace the water pump, but the real problem is that the water pump can fail with sometimes no indicator of it doing so and then leak coolant into the engine oil causing catastrophic damage to the engine.

Use a cooling system pressure tester like this. Just pump it up to like 15 psi and check for the gauge to drop in pressure and also listen for hisses and leaks at the weep hole.

Shelton, It seems as though you are very mechanically educated and will be proactive to ensure that if your water pump fails it will not cause catastrophic damage to the engine. I simply don't view you as the normal owner of an Explorer and think that most people assume that some sort of indicator or engine light will flash before any damage has been done to the engine.

 

[JAPeterson]

On all the engines that I have looked at or worked on that have a internal water pump or what is considered to be a internal pump there is no way for water to enter the oil system if they fail. You can however overheat the engine causing a head gasket to blow which will allow coolant into the oil and with a blown head gasket you can ruin the engine. I have also seen a lot of engines that are running with quite a bit of coolant in the oil. It isn't good but that alone will not take out a engine.

Without reading through 11+ pages on this thread I will be willing to bet that the water pump went out or started to fail which took out a head gasket which in turn cause other problems that took out the engine.

 

[Sixonemale]

On all the engines that I have looked at or worked on that have a internal water pump or what is considered to be a internal pump there is no way for water to enter the oil system if they fail. You can however overheat the engine causing a head gasket to blow which will allow coolant into the oil and with a blown head gasket you can ruin the engine. I have also seen a lot of engines that are running with quite a bit of coolant in the oil. It isn't good but that alone will not take out a engine.

Without reading through 11+ pages on this thread I will be willing to bet that the water pump went out or started to fail which took out a head gasket which in turn cause other problems that took out the engine.

From the Ford Taurus forum regarding water pump/engine issues associated with 3.5L Duratec Engine:

https://www.fordtaurus.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19060

 

[JAPeterson]

To get that much coolant into the oil you need to find a place that coolant and oil come together. And without seeing a diagram of the oil and coolant flow in the 3.5 engine to see where they come together I would still say that the main problem isn't the water pump. However one place that they do come together would be the oil cooler.

Also just because there is coolant mixed with the oil doesn't mean that is what caused the engine failure. I am more familiar with diesel engines and when a oil cooler fails on them there is usually quite a bit of coolant in the oil with no engine failure. You just change the oil a couple of times and flush the engine coolant a couple of times and you are good to go.

 

[Janineidk]

I'm new here, and I don't know how long it has been since you posted, whether you've fixed your vehicle, or have gotten assistance. What I did find is that there are a few ongoing lawsuits for this problem. I found the issue detailed here:


I also believe I saw the attorney's info there, as well.

 

[reserved50]

The internal water pump design is silly especially since these are timing chain engines and cannot be easily replaced compared to a timing belt engine which is meant to be accessed easily, plus I've read a few people have said engine coolant has leaked into the oil and destroyed it. Meaning there is no separation from the coolant to the oil, just bad design. *shakes head

 

[Odrapnew]

I'm new here, and I don't know how long it has been since you posted, whether you've fixed your vehicle, or have gotten assistance. What I did find is that there are a few ongoing lawsuits for this problem. I found the issue detailed here:



I also believe I saw the attorney's info there, as well.

A "plug" for an attorney this post feels like, hmmm?

A failed water pump could cause the vehicle to overheat and damage engine? Ya don’t say.

A water pump could fail without warning? Ya don’t say.

A replacement engine could cost thousands? Ya don’t say.

It can cost thousands to replace the water pump? I agree, that is ridiculous.

What they should be touting is that a failed water pump could leak coolant into the engine oil and cause internal damage.

 

[blwnsmoke]

Was speaking to someone within Ford about this and the answer I got is that the 3.5s in FWD vehicles have an internal pump because the motor would not fit in with an external.

That is why all RWD 3.5s have an external since the motor is facing forward instead of sideways.

 

[Sixonemale]

Was speaking to someone within Ford about this and the answer I got is that the 3.5s in FWD vehicles have an internal pump because the motor would not fit in with an external.

That is why all RWD 3.5s have an external since the motor is facing forward instead of sideways.

Are you saying that some Explorers with the 3.5 engines have external water pumps?