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Will Be Blown Again!

Discussion in 'Modified 1995-2001 Explorers' started by Blown, December 14, 2017.

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    1. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      Well, I’m back to trying a similar build. Hopefully hood clearance works. 98 ranger 5.0 swap, powerdome hood.

      Just impulse-purchased a set of gen 1 lightning kenne bell manifolds on ebay. Hopefully pulley allignment will work with a 94-95 mustang drive.

      Running my explorer express x-charger at 10psi, I’m actually pegging a lightning IAT at 250* during WOT pulls. Its a time bomb even with the computer pulling tons of timing. I was planning on a large shot of water meth, but a kenne bell 2.2 should run much cooler.

      Chris
       
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    3. Blown

      Blown Active Member

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      10lbs was maximum without cooling for my KB blower.

      Meth/H2O injection is an added thing to go wrong and if it does there's a high likelyhood of blowing your engine.

      I am hitting the pick n pull this Saturday for an F150 Lower intake and accessories. I'll then get to bolt this up and see what's to be done with the blower snout length and anything that may be in the way.....................................excluding camping.....

      [​IMG]
       
    4. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      Are you switching over to F-150 FEAD? The explorer 5.0 engine bay is already super tight, I'm not sure the longer accessory setup will fit.

      The 94-95 mustang drive should be very close to correct length for the explorer accessories, and will have no interference issues. My Explorer Express kit with M-90 has the snout in the same position as the KB setup, and they just swapped the stock idler to a smaller unit and added a second idler for belt wrap on the supercharger pulley. Luckily for me, the main plate with idlers and the snout support are two separate pieces, so I'll be able to just fab a new snout support and keep the idler setup as is. I'm traveling for work currently, or I'd post some pics of my eaton setup for reference.

      Are you planning to add a bypass valve? It looks like your kit doesn't have one. My Lightning manifolds are also non-bypass, so I'll have to fab one in before install. I'm not sure if I'll use the Lightning inlet, or build a completely custom one. Your inlet looks much better suited to the Explorer 5.0 setup though, just need to make an easy TB adapter. These early KB inlets are stupid restrictive, but I'm not sure how firewall clearance will be for improving them. My M90 kit sits much farther forward, with the discharge actually slightly forward of the front ports on the lower. Inlet restriction is what causes so much of the heat in these superchargers, but if you're staying low boost, probably won't be an issue.

      I'm running a 2.1L Kenne Bell Flow/Blow at 10psi on my thunderbird. The IAT's are high, 200*ish, but still way cooler than this eaton is running. I'm just pushing the M-90 way too hard and out of its efficiency zone. I have a new motor built for that car, just need to get it dropped in. It will be running afr165 heads, a custom cam, and a heavily ported gt40 lower. Aiming for 12psi with 6.5" lower and 2 7/8 upper. Currently seeing 10psi with 5.85" lower. I will be spraying 16gph 50/50 water meth. You can keep water meth safe with the tune by pulling tons of timing with IAT. If the meth fails, your IAT will skyrocket.

      You'll probably get your build in progress before me. I need to put the that engine in before I tear into the ranger. My other truck cracked a head, so I just finished a HCI build on it and am dealing with tune issues. So I need to get my daily tuned, my fun car swapped, then I can pull the supercharger off the ranger and mock up my Lightning manifolds and my freshly rebuilt KB 2.2. Its nice to have projects, especially when I'm only home every other weekend this summer.

      Chris
       
    5. Blown

      Blown Active Member

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      cool stuff Chris

      I am using an F150 lower intake because that is what the blower manifold was made to for. This was an F150/Bronco kit. I will get the snout shortened to meet the existing accessory belt. I am not concerned with a bypass at 5 or 6lbs.
       
    6. Dono

      Dono V8 Limited turbo and retired SC 4.0 OHV Elite Explorer

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      pls detail the shortening of the snout.
      I'm curious as to the 'how'.
       
    7. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      I’ve seen a snout cut down before, but it was a large amount of machining required. In this case its probably going to be much cheaper to buy the correct snout from kenne bell, unless you have access to a machine shop and the skills to do it.
      Chris
       
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    8. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      I understand why you’re using the f150 lower. When you said accessories, i thought you were refering to using the F150 FEAD instead of dealing with the shorter Explorer FEAD.
       
    9. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Ditto, making the blower fit an existing snout will be easier hopefully.

      Chris, if you might have to fabricate any of the plenum/inlet parts, why not build it all around an intercooler? I've seen the Mustang chop up and divide a plenum to route the discharge to an A2A IC out front, that's almost old now.

      I need to locate the snout and idler bracketry for mine, all I have is the bare 2.2 KB. This picture below is the layout I'm shooting for. This is some Mustang from long ago on the Corral, I saved the picture to show the idea. Since I have to build the plenums, the GT40 is a bad choice for an intake, it's very restrictive. Another Corral member has a 92 Saleen Mustang with a 358 and KB 2800, it's a 9 second car, but uses the same flow layout. The blower discharges up, to the plenum leading over an IC, down to the TFS lower intake. That will fit easily under the hood, but the space around the back for the inlet plenum will be thin, a bit tall I think. I'll try to push(build) the IC plenum forward as much as possible at the back, which makes the inlet plenum bigger.

      KB_Cooler.jpg
       
    10. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      I bought the lightning manifolds for the discharge. The intake just might work as well, but would just be a minor convenience. Building a discharge requires a ton of precision and strength, as it controlls pulley alignment and angle, and also serves as the mounting for the kit. The inlet just needs minimal restriction and put the TB in the right location. These early KB inlets have terrible restriction issues, but Im not sure if firewall clearance will allow for much improvement.

      The f150/lightning kits appear to use the fox mustang 315mm drive. If OP could confirm, that would be awesome. If so, the 94-95 mustang 270mm drive will be a very close fit on an explorer, since they are basically sn-95 mustang FEAD length, using same timing cover and water pump.

      An air/water setup would be cool, but not clearing stock hood unless you build a custom lower. In the mustang config, like your pic, you run into brake booster and power steering hose clearance issues, but can be made to work by going slightly taller. I know there was an explorer running a 94-95 KB kit. The mustang kit is designed for much less hood clearance, hence the blower almost touching valve cover. Thats actually why I went with afr-165’s instead of 11r190’s on my car. The old KB kits had the distributer to avoid both on mustang and F150, nice advantage the explorer has.

      I actually think water/meth is a better solution for a pushrod KB than air/water, especially on 91 pump gas. Both simpler and able to add more timing. My ranger will still get water/meth if I like it on the thunderbird, or I cant keep IATs reasonable.

      Building yer own kit discharge, I’d push the blower way forward, using the 185mm dodge drive, or the 141mm termi cobra drive. It will offset your discharge port forward of lower intake, but will make the inlet much easier and less restrictive. This was my plan with modding my explorer express discharge, but the KB lightning manifold was too nice to pass up.

      To the OP, really watch IATs at cruise with no bypass. I’ve seen 200* plus logs even with low boost. Remember, intake restriction causes much of the KB heat issue, and a closed TB is one hell of a restriction.

      Chris
       
      Last edited: June 1, 2018
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    11. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      The saleen mustang 2.8KB build is the successful drive shortening I’ve seen, IIRC. However, the machining and fabrication in that build is insane. Way over the top of my skills and funds
       
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    12. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      That's a good description of his skills of fabrication. He was building for the potential of much more boost, and he's been running 20ish psi and working out other car issues, fuel etc. I know he's on some small/narrow tires, but with the right traction he could be even more scary fast. I hope he keeps it reliable and safe all along the way.

      Thanks for the details of other snout lengths, I knew there were just a few choices available. I do want the blower forward as much as needed to clear things the best.

      The hood room is plenty in the Explorers, for a large blower, or an IC beside it, but not for them stacked. It lacks a good 3" to be able to fit a decent IC under the blower(like the EE kit setup).
       
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    13. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      Made it home this weekend. Snapped a few pics of the EE kit belt setup while I was fighting with the tune on my dakota. The drivers side pulley is a smaller pulley in factory idler location. The passenger side is added with the front plate. This pulley setup gives decently good belt wrap, even with the minuscule pulley my eaton runs.

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      My lightning manifolds should show up Monday, so hopefully I'll get some time to play with mockups next time I'm home.

      CDW6212R, my KB2.2 currently has a dodge 185mm drive on it. I'll take some pics showing where that will put the compressor in relation to the firewall and the discharge relative to lower. If my lightning manifold doesn't work out, that will be my second option anyway.

      Chris
       
    14. Blown

      Blown Active Member

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      The blower snout idler pulley bracket. It bolts to the top two water pump bolts and this is the height it should be at. No problem with hood clearance.
      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      This has a 270mm snout and they come in 314, 270 185, and 141. Cut away of blower snout. I do not see such difficulty in machining? We will see.
      [​IMG]
       
      Last edited: June 4, 2018
    15. Blown

      Blown Active Member

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      Snout and idler pulley bracket.
      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      I will cut away the stock idler and part of the stock bracket to fit it.
      [​IMG]

      The Exploder stock crank pulley is 6", F150 is 6.5". It will spin about 8% slower. I hope I got a good pulley size to get the boost I want................................
       
    16. Blown

      Blown Active Member

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      ((14.7+Boost) / 14.7) x (engine liters / 2)) / Supercharger Size liters = Theoretical Pully Ratio*
      Shooting for 6lbs

      ((14.7 + 6lbs/ 14/7) X 5.0/2)) / 2.1liter = 1.68 :1

      I got a 3 5/16" blower pulley = 1.85 :1 should be about 8lbs of boost at sea level.
       
      Last edited: June 5, 2018
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    17. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Is that a good equation for the KB target blower speed/ratios? I hadn't seen the math in years, and I figured I would need just over a 3" pulley for mild boost. That looks like I'll be closer to a 3.5" pulley in the end, they don't go much bigger do they?
       
    18. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      Should be about right. I was 8psi with 5.85 lower and 3” upper on my car. Thats a 2.1 though, not sure how the 2.2 compares.

      Is that snout support for a 302 or 351?

      Not thrilled to hear the 270mm drive is used on F150. In that case, I’ll be quite interested with how the drive mods turn out. Much of the difficulty is due to the shaft being hardened.
      Chris
       
    19. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      Equation has worked well on my thunderbird. Theres an efficiency factor not listed there, dependent on setup. Believe mine is in the .9-.95 range

      Pulleys go up to 4” on the 10mm 6rib. Hood clearance is the issue there.

      Chris
       
    20. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      From Cougar5.0 on corral:
      Formula has been within 1psi on my kenne bell and on the EE magnusson. Gives a very good idea of what to expect

      Chris
       
      Last edited: June 4, 2018
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    21. CDW6212R

      CDW6212R Hauls the mail. Elite Explorer

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      Okay good, so that should be close, with the efficiency adjustment of about .92. I'll be starting with a 6-rib pulley and changing to 8-rib with an engine swap and 7" crank pulley. I'll use the first combination to guess at the next pulley ratio, that should be very close. Thanks,
       
    22. Blown

      Blown Active Member

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      Thx for the addition of efficiancy to the formula....

      I ran my calc based on a 5.85" crank pulley, I think that's right though I posted 6".

      I got a 4 1/8" pulley I won't be using and a 2 1/4" I will save to blow it up!!!
       
    23. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      Actually 6.0” crank is correct for explorer 5.0. 5.85” is stock fox mustang. 6.5” is fox thunderbird and F-150.

      Yeah, those pulleys won’t help you much. I’ve never seen a 4 1/8, low boost with the 6.5 crank I guess.
      2 1/4 is more for KB 1.5 or just being stupid, lol.

      Chris
       
      Last edited: June 5, 2018
    24. Blown

      Blown Active Member

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      ahhhh, altitude is 5400' here.

      ((12.05 + 7lbs / 12.05) X 5.0 / 2)) / 2.1liter = 1.88:1

      Pulley ratio is 1.85, so a little under 7lbs boost!
       
    25. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      I think your boost will be higher. I’m at 3500 feet, and the formula works with the 14.7, not 12.9.
      Chris
       
    26. 77'cj7

      77'cj7 Member

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      Well, I'm throwing in the towel on my attempt. I spent all afternoon and evening tearing the M-90 off my ranger and mocking up with the kenne bell setup. The lightning lower manifold just isn't going to work for my intentions.

      Issues:
      On my 97 motor, the fuel regulator is actually in the way of the blower casing itself, not to mention the inlet. I believe I might be able to swap in a set of 5.0 F-150 rails to fix this. The schrader valve is touching the discharge as well, but thats minor.
      There is no room to expand the inlet rearward as much as I'd like. Its pretty tight to the firewall.
      There is effectively no room to build a bypass setup. The explorer fuel rails block a good portion of the discharge manifold, so I don't see a way to plum the bypass without some goofy fab work.
      I just bought the lightning manifolds and a 270mm drive, so that was an expensive failure.

      Now for the good news, for the OP: Blown.
      Your 2000 explorer motor runs a returnless fuel system IIRC. That makes tuning harder, but should completely avoid the clearance issues I was running into.
      The inlet will clear the firewall. Its tight, and the main harness to the transmission is gonna be really snug, but it will work.
      Hood clearance is awesome. I was worried about the IAC motor, since it sticks way above the throttle body. Even with the TB level with the top of the compressor, theres at least an inch or more clearance above the IAC. The drive pulley had plenty of clearance as well.
      If you don't want to swap to a F-150 lower, I'll sell you this lightning discharge for half of what I paid. (I'm keeping the inlet to cut up for my build, it actually will work perfectly.) The GT-40 flows better, plus saves you the work of swapping a lower.
      It looks to me like shortening the drive will be the only significant work required for your build. The TB adapter should be easy.
      I was going to knock apart the drive today to see what would be required for shortening, but I have now realized I'm not pursuing this route, so I'm hoping I can return it. You're on your own for that part of the mockup.

      And the good news for me:
      The 2.2L Kenne Bell IS getting installed on my ranger.
      The explorer express discharge manifold setup can be modified relatively simply to work.
      A 141mm termi cobra drive will put the discharge of the kenne bell roughly lined up with the M-90's discharge, and give me plenty of space at the rear of the compressor to open up the inlet and add a bypass valve.
      The lightning inlet will be sectioned, and expanded 1" rearward to make it larger than the Flowzilla inlet on my car. The TB mount will be cut off, EGR provisions cut out and opening enlarged to 90mm, and reattached facing forward. Basically, I'm making an explorer Flowzilla manifold, even larger than the mustang version.
      There's just enough space behind the expanded inlet for a bypass valve to fit perfectly, no goofy u-bends required. Straight shot from inlet to outlet, with a 90* fitting added to the back of the inlet. Again, basically mustang Flowzilla setup.

      I took quite a few pics of the mockups and part comparisons, let me know what you want to see. I was really frustrated by the fuel rail clearance issues, so I actually didn't get any of the compressor on with the lightning lower. Let me know if it would help you and I can toss it back on tomorrow. For now the KB is sitting on the X-charger manifold.

      Thanks,
      Chris
       

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