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Won't start / Intermittent running / P1235 - 2005 Sport Trac

Discussion in 'Under the Hood' started by theluke19, May 7, 2012.

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    1. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      *** EDIT 5/8 - Please note that this issue started out as a misdiagnosis of Transmission issues - and now I"m thinking it is Fuel Pump issues.****
      ***EDIT 5/10 - Removed from 911 thread, no longer 911

      Well, after my excursion in the mountains this weekend, I get in my truck to drive to work (about an hour after getting home from mountainous drive where I used cruise control.. Hope this wasn't the main cause of the problem) get halfway down the road, and I noticed that the truck stuttered while at about 20 mph maybe 1st or between 1st / 2nd gear- Then the orange Transmission light came on.

      I cautiously popped it into reverse, and rolled right back up into my driveway (same noticeable jittery/stuttering- almost like the truck was starving for gas -


      Earlier this weekend, and a few times before, I've had it stall when putting it into Drive over and over - only to fix itself after a 2-3 minute engine-off, and restart. The last time this happened was Sunday driving up a ramp in a parking garage - it just stalled.. 5 minutes later, no issues it seemed and it started right up. I don't think it's related, but heck if I know!

      I'm at work now - didn't really have any time at all to attempt diagnosis, and I know this isn't enough information, just thought I'd get a posting up here asap. I'll likely begin with a simple fluid check/top off- maybe bust out with an all out pulling of the pan, fluid/gasket/filter replacement..

      Any thoughts?
       
      Last edited: May 11, 2012
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    3. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Ran home on my (short) lunch break and checked the fluid on it (cold though) and it seemed fine- A little black on the rag, but that may have been from the top of the dipstick.


      What would be my best course of action - obviously not drive it anywhere- Would I be able to pull a code for the transmission with a code reader if the check engine light isn't on but the transmission light is?
       
    4. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      From what I've read so far on the issue, I'm suspecting (and hoping) that the issue is only the EPC Solenoid.

      Does this sound like a logical suspicion, based on my symptoms? Again, I know I don't have much in terms of symptoms, but what kind of things can I do or try to further narrow down the issue?



      I also found a used transmission from a wrecked 2002 Sport Trac w/ 36k miles for a fair ~$800 - would that be the same transmission as my 2005? That is a decent price, no?
       
      Last edited: May 8, 2012
    5. PopRichie77

      PopRichie77 Well-Known Member

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      Yes Check engine light is for the engine, OD light flashing is for the trans. Pull the trans code and go from there.
       
    6. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      I haven't really noticed od light flashing but ill check again
       
    7. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Also, if the check engine light isn't on, but the transmission light is, it will still pull a code, right? I don't want to drive it anywhere, or trailer it quite yet - I think I'll run up to Advance and grab a obdII scanner.
       
    8. PopRichie77

      PopRichie77 Well-Known Member

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      Not all OBDII scanners can read manufacture specific trans codes. Sorry, got mixed up, some how I thought you said the OD light was flashing. If the OD light didn't flash then there won't be a code.
      After rereading your post it could be an engine problem, even though the check engine light didn't come on. As long as the trans doesn't slip, driving it should not hurt the trans.
       
    9. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Picked up a obdII tool prior to seeing your post, here's the code it provided:

      P1235 MOD$10 - which would explain my initial diagnosis

      Freeze frame information (Unsure if it's necessary since we now know there's something up w/ the fuel pump)

      Abslt TPS 20%
      Eng Speed 956 RPM
      Calc Load 43.9%
      MAF 6.47 (gr/sec)
      coolant 172* F
      IAT 66F
      IGN Advance 17.0 Deg
      ST FTRM1 12.5%
      LT Ftrm1 .7%
      ST Ftrm2 4.6%
      LT Ftrm2 -1.6%
      Veh Speed 13 MPH
      Rel FRP 134.22 KPA
      Fuel Sys 1 clsd
      o2sII .025v
      st ftrmII 12.5%
      o2s12 0v
      stftrm12 99.2%
      02s21 .045v
      st ftrm 21 4.6%


      At this point, I'm not saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with the transmission, but I'm thinking I may have misdiagnosed the issue in the first place.


      Does the fuel pump seem like it would be causing this?


      PS.. Also, all the times I mentioned a 'transmission' light... I think I was just an idiot..

      I think it's IS the check engine light... [​IMG]
       
    10. Wills05xlt4x4

      Wills05xlt4x4 Elite Explorer

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      Side note your and my 05 have the 5r55s prior to 04they were 5r55w i would never replace a s with a w(not as good)
      On th your code-
      P1235 - Fuel Pump Control Out Of Range

      0 Comments | Add Yours

      Possible causes

      FP circuit open or shorted. ETC system concern (check for ETC DTCs). Damaged FPDM. Damaged PCM.

      Symptoms

      - Engine Light ON (or Service Engine Soon Warning Light)

      P1235 Description

      The DTC indicates the FPDM detected an invalid or missing FP circuit signal from the PCM. The FPDM sends a message to the PCM through the FPM circuit, indicating this failure was detected. The PCM sets the DTC when the message is received. Note: For LS6/LS8 and Thunderbird, the FPDM functions are incorporated in the Rear Electronics Module (REM). Also, the REM does not use an FPM circuit. Diagnostic information is sent on the communication link.

      Possible solution

      The FPDM sends a 25% duty cycle (250 ms ON, 750 ms OFF) through the FPM circuit to the PCM while the fault is being detected by the FPDM. If the fault is no longer detected, the PDM returns to sending an all OK (50% duty cycle) message to the PCM. For ETC applications, check if ETC DTC P2105 is present. An ETC system concern could cause P1235, and should be diagnosed first.

      P1235 Information for specific makes

      P1235 FORD


      Sounds like a bad fuel pump..had one go in my 04 taurus and it worked 50/50 ended up discovering the recirculate valve was sticking causing intermittent lack of fuel pressure thus same symptoms you've had...
      Plus my x had a fuel pump put in under warranty for sending unit issues known to these explorers...
       
    11. PopRichie77

      PopRichie77 Well-Known Member

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      This is a fuel injected engine if the pump stops so will the engine. Not uncommon for a pump to be intermittent but also could be wiring or the fuel pump relay, I would bet on the pump but it's just a guess on my part.
       
    12. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Well I feel lucky...

      As a first costless troubleshooting step, and by suggestion on someone else having that same code, I swapped my fog relay with the fuel pump relay to test it, and cleared the code. Drove it around, and to a diner, where I sit now. No check engine light, luckily, so far- and it drives and feels normal.. Fog lights work too...

      Easy fix? Yes. Is that the only issue? I hope!
       
    13. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Thank you richie, and will for your suggestions- Hopefully I will not need to troubleshoot further!
       
    14. PopRichie77

      PopRichie77 Well-Known Member

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      Thanks for the reply, hope your problem is solved.
       
    15. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Well it drove flawlessly for about 20 miles total with no Check Engine light- then I went out to check on it during my first break here at work- Check engine light is back on, and it stutters when starting.

      Weird.. I'm thinking I'll look into fuel pump replacement I guess...
       
    16. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Can I go ahead and rule out the Fuel Pump Inertia Switch, since it starts and runs? Or would the FPIS also cause stuttering like what I"m getting (and cause a Check Engine light)?

      **EDIT made sure the connector was on good for the FPIS, and pushed it a couple times to make sure.. Nothing really clicks, its just a soft rubber button up top..
       
      Last edited: May 8, 2012
    17. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Ok - so I went and purchased another OBD scanner right next to my work here (since my truck is at work with me in non-running condition) to try what 'fixed' it earlier so I can drive it home.

      Cleared the code, started, and it died- turning on the CEL again

      Now, I can't get the obd scanner to read a code at all on it, so I'm thinking the fuse for it is popped or something, I"ll check when I get off.

      Also, the truck won't start at all at this point. I'm on the third floor of a parking garage, so I'm not sure what I"m going to do - (my dumbass...). There is a sears automotive if worse comes to worse right outside the parking garage.
       
    18. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      [​IMG]


      Here's a video of what happens when I try to start it. Also, I don't hear the fuelpump when I turn the key, but I do hear one small click (relay?)
       
    19. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Found this.. dropping it here for later refererence:

      KB30 DTC P1235 OR P1236: IS DTC P1235 OR P1236 PRESENT IN KEY ON ENGINE OFF OR ENGINE RUNNING SELF TEST?
      Note: Refer to the PCM connector pin numbers in the beginning of this pinpoint test.

      Note: For LS6/LS8 and Thunderbird, the FPDM functions are incorporated in the Rear Electronics Module (REM). In the following steps, if directed to perform an action with the FPDM, complete the action with the REM. Refer to the pin numbers in the beginning of this pinpoint test.

      Is DTC P1235 or P1236 present in Key On Engine Off or Engine Running Self-Test?
      Yes No
      A hard fault is present. GO to KB31 to check the FP circuit. DTC P1235 or P1236 is intermittent.

      For LS6/LS8 and Thunderbird :

      GO to KB42 .

      All others :

      GO to KB45 .

      KB31 CHECK FOR OPEN FP CIRCUIT BETWEEN PCM AND FPDM
      Disconnect FPDM.
      Disconnect PCM.
      Measure resistance of FP circuit between PCM harness connector pin and the FPDM harness connector.
      Is resistance less than 5.0 ohms?
      Yes No
      GO to KB32 . REPAIR open circuit.

      KB32 CHECK FP CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO POWER IN HARNESS
      Key on, engine off.
      Measure voltage between FP circuit at PCM harness connector pin and ground.
      Is voltage less than 1.0 volt?
      Yes No
      KEY OFF. GO to KB33 . REPAIR short circuit.

      KB33 CHECK FP CIRCUIT FOR SHORT TO GROUND IN HARNESS
      Disconnect scan tool from DLC.
      Measure resistance between FP circuit at PCM harness connector pin and ground.
      Is resistance greater than 10,000 ohms?
      Yes No
      For LS6/LS8 and Thunderbird :

      GO to KB36 .

      All others :

      GO to KB34 . REPAIR short circuit.

      KB34 CHECK FP CIRCUIT IN FPDM
      Reconnect FPDM.
      Key on, engine off.
      Measure voltage between FP circuit at PCM harness connector pin and ground.
      Is voltage between 4.5 and 5.5 volts?
      Yes No
      REPLACE PCM (refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM)). REPLACE FPDM.

      KB36 CHECK FPF PID
      Key on, engine off.
      Access the FP and FPF PIDs on the scan tool (the FP PID may be used in the next step).
      While viewing the FPF PID for 20 seconds, check if the FPF PID will indicate YES. The FPF PID may read NO in the 20 seconds, but will change back to YES.
      Does the FPF PID indicate YES within 20 seconds?
      Yes No
      GO to KB40 . GO to KB37 .

      KB37 CHECK FP PID
      Does the FP PID indicate between 70 and 80%?
      Yes No
      GO to KB38 . TURN KEY OFF then back ON. Wait 5 seconds. REPEAT test step. If result is now YES, follow YES result. If result is still NO, REPLACE PCM (refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM)).

      KB38 ACCESS REM PIDS AND CHECK PWM_DC1 PID
      Access the PWM_DC1 PID from the REM menu (the PWM_DC1 PID indicates the signal sent to the REM from the PCM on the FP circuit).
      Does the PWM_DC1 PID indicate between 70 and 80%?
      Yes No
      KEY OFF. No fault indicated. Disregard DTC P1235 or P1236. RETURN to Section 3 where DTC was received and proceed as directed. REPLACE REM.

      KB40 CHECK REM CIRCUITRY VOLTAGE ON FP CIRCUIT AT PCM
      Key off.
      Disconnect PCM connector A.
      Key on, engine off.
      Measure voltage between Pin A58 at the PCM harness connector A and ground.
      Is voltage greater than 8 volts?
      Yes No
      REPLACE PCM (refer to Section 2, Flash Electrically Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory (EEPROM)). REPLACE REM.

      KB42 CHECK FP CIRCUIT FOR INTERMITTENT CONCERNS
      Key on, engine off.
      Access the REM PID access menu on the scan tool.
      Access the PWM_DC1 PID from the REM menu (the PWM_DC1 PID indicates the signal sent to the REM from the PCM on the FP circuit).
      Observe the PWM_DC1 PID for indication of a fault while completing the following (the PID value will change when a fault is detected):
      Shake, wiggle and bend the FP circuit between the PCM (Pin A58) and REM (Pin J2-19).
      Is a fault indicated?
      Yes No
      ISOLATE fault and REPAIR as necessary. KEY OFF. Unable to duplicate or identify fault at this time. GO to Z1 with the following data: PWM_DC1 PID (REM menu), FP PID (PCM menu, the FP PID is the signal the PCM is sending to the REM).

      KB45 CHECK FP CIRCUIT FOR INTERMITTENT OPENS OR SHORTS
      Key on, engine off.
      Access FPM PID.
      Note: With no fault detected, the FPDM will send a 50% duty cycle signal (all OK) to the PCM on the FPM circuit. Depending on scan tools, the FPM PID may display 50%, or a random value that is fluctuating between 85 and 115%.

      Observe the FPM PID for an indication of a fault while completing the following (look for the FPM PID to change from the 50% value, or to stop fluctuating):
      Shake, wiggle, bend the FP circuit between FPDM and the PCM.
      Lightly tap on the FPDM (to simulate road shock).
      Is a fault indicated?
      Yes No
      ISOLATE fault and REPAIR as necessary. KEY OFF. Unable to duplicate or identify fault at this time.GO to Z1 .
       
    20. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Tomorrow, plan is to replace the relays for the Computer / Power-train control module / fuel pump and hope for good news.

      Beyond that, I am going to look into the Fuel Pump Driver Module - Where will this be located in my Sport Trac?

      If no luck on either of these, I'm taking it into the shop. I might even just leave it outside sears tonight, and let them diagnose it in the morning (although who KNOWS what they're gonna tell me.. seems to be hit or miss with sears)
       
    21. PopRichie77

      PopRichie77 Well-Known Member

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      Don't forget the fuel filter, replace one thing at a time and test, I would do the fuel filter and fuel pump first. The PCM drives the fuel pump relay.
       
    22. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Ended up getting it started last night by doing the same thing I did before leaving for work, swap fog relay w/ fuel pump relay - clear code - and it worked..


      Replaced the relays for fuel pump and pcm entirely with china's :( Let's see how it works today

      Let's see how they hold up! Hopefully I don't have reoccurrence.
       
    23. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      For regular maintenance, and good measure, I replaced the fuel filter today too.. WAY easier than I initially thought, I'd never done it before on any vehicle.

      Still running ok, I'm hoping that I can make it to work without issue :)

      wish me luck ;)
       
    24. k-pendow

      k-pendow New Member

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      Most likely with having a p1235 it is the fuel pump driver module-fpdm, thats what it normally would be on an F-150 ( same crappy driver set up). I can't get the website to work right so all I can find about it's location is near fuel tank unit. Before you put that in check the connector under truck running back to it for damage or green corrosion. Most of the time p1235 and p1233 won't turn the check engine light on but will be there in memory. Just put a fpdm on a Navigator today, I keep a spare but my toolbox so I can drive cars into shop. If you look at backside of fpdm and see how rotten it is, most of the time they have holes rotted through the case allowing water to fry circuit boards. Also I heard recently that regular parts stores are selling these, used to be dealer only. Good luck hope this helps, sorry I can't get a better description for locations.
       
    25. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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      Thanks K-pen -

      Made it to work on time, and without an issue

      HOWEVER

      Went the truck took a few seconds longer to start on my break tonight, and then stalled before pulling into a parking spot. Couldn't get it started, and when I did, it just died while putting it in gear...

      Finally got it started a few minutes later, and tossed it into 1st gear just to see if it had any other affect, and it worked without issue to pull into a spot. No check engine light at this time.

      Hoping I can drive it home tonight (at least get it started and going, it seems to work OK once I get it going), and likely look to replace or diagnose the Fuel Pump or Fuel Pump Driver Module in the morning.
       
    26. theluke19

      theluke19 Elite Explorer

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