Wrong Part??

[jah81592]

All right let me approach this from another angle. Lets just assume the tuning is proper, stock-we know this will be close to the correct a/f's(Ford likes it a little rich). While testing the fpr Ford recommends removing the vac line (static pressure) and loading the vehicle,with the vac line removed it shouldn't loose much pressure if any. The fuel pressure should be within the 45-65psi range steady not varying between that range. Probably closer to 50ish stock. But with your 190lph pump I would say now closer to 60psi range. Now if you remove the vac line to test the vehicle even though you are at higher pressure the a/f's will not be so far off you will get a bog (aka rich condition)! I tune high performance vehicles all the time which run adjustable regs and no vac port and there is no adverse effects on the a/f's at all, even at the lower rpm's. I just refuse to believe this is your problem. I may be wrong and if I am I will say so but I don't think this is your problem. Please let me have your boxcode from your computer and I will ensure what fuel injectors you have-J

 

[Turdle]

Please let me have your boxcode from your computer and I will ensure what fuel injectors you have-J

Now why didn't we think of this before?



Now--what's this about adjustable regulator with no vacuum reference?
Shouldn't I be using one? Now you got me going James!!!

 

[jah81592]

I disagree with Fredness stating that the injectors are 24#'ers! I would be willing to bet your truck has 19# injectors. Something is amiss. Again I wouldn't replace the fpr! I don't believe this is your problem. I have my stock injectors you could try. I know they work.
BTW a fpr is a diaphram usually they are either bad or good. A pin hole or small tear in the diaphram would cause a little havoc but the range you have is not an indicator of a bad fpr.

 

[jah81592]

Now why didn't we think of this before?



Now--what's this about adjustable regulator with no vacuum reference?
Shouldn't I be using one? Now you got me going James!!!

Usually you will bump the pressure when you are almost "out of injector" it will give you a little more. I never recommend it as the components should be matched propery and a band aid should never be used. If you want to use a static pressure then plug your vac line and with the adjustable reg set to desired pressure.

 

[Lazzman]

My boxcode is CJJ1.

James, that is all well and good- what was stated above but this problem that I started before I even put any aftermarket performance mods on my vehicle.

I keep explaining that to everyone but no one is listening. I started putting all of the performance parts on to correct the original problem and none have.

The sympomts again:

Runs a lot worse when the ambient temperature is warm.

Terrible midrange throttle response (bogging) especially when the air is above 60f.

Vehicle is hard to start if you don't get it on the first turn of the key.

Gas smell from the engine bay after hard acceleration.

No engine codes.

Tuner was not able to adjust fuel curve easily when tuning on the dyno. No matter how many times he went and retuned the chip he still could not get to the results he wanted. That means there is an outside factor controlling fuel flow rather the the computer.

I have spent the last two years diagnosing this problem and this is the last thing on the list. The entire fuel system is new as is the electrical system. Cylinder Compression is excellent.

Everything on my vehicle is stock and correct, with the exception of parts suggestions from people on the board
i.e. Volant CAI, Demon coil, C&L MAF, 2.5" catback. Thats it, nothing out of the ordinary.

I will fix this and you will all see...

 

[aldive]

Runs a lot worse when the ambient temperature is warm.

Terrible midrange throttle response (bogging) especially when the air is above 60f.

Vehicle is hard to start if you don't get it on the first turn of the key.

Gas smell from the engine bay after hard acceleration.

No engine codes.

With all those "problems". its amazing that you made over 190 RWHP. There are a lot of Explorers in perfect running condition that can't make those numbers. Maybe your truck is not as bad as you think.

Tuner was not able to adjust fuel curve easily when tuning on the dyno. No matter how many times he went and retuned the chip he still could not get to the results he wanted. That means there is an outside factor controlling fuel flow rather the the computer.

As stated before, this tuner is not the superstar you think he/she is. Why not try James?

I have spent the last two years diagnosing this problem and this is the last thing on the list.

Lazz, why not drive to Alabama or fly James up there and let him tune your truck? It will be cheaper in the long run.

Everything on my vehicle is stock and correct, with the exception of parts suggestions from people on the board
i.e. Volant CAI, Demon coil, C&L MAF, 2.5" catback. Thats it, nothing out of the ordinary..

Except the 24 pound injectors? and the spark plugs?

Have you checked the plug wires yet?

Lazz, we all want to see your truck run to your satisfaction and make 210 HP.

Good luck ....

 

[jah81592]

What year is this? 1998? Just want to make sure. I have an extra computer I can send you which you could plug up and see it the comp has went haywire. I find the fuel smell from the engine bay wierd. Have you located that source? I would be willing to send you a stock maf and fuel injectors and computer to see if the prob goes away.
On a side note remember the maf controls all fueling I wish you had a excal2 so we could datalog what is going on with in this vehicle

 

[Lazzman]

Guys, from the bottom of my greasy back yard mechanic heart, really appreciate all the help.

Please read carefully. I do not have 24lb injectors, repeat I do not have 24lb injectors. The injectors in my engine are the exact same ones that came with the truck, same part number and everything is identical. I have no idea what lb they are. All I know is that they are the stock configuration i.e. what ever came with a 1998 V6 sohc motor.

My tuner was a waste of money, he could not figure out why he could not calibrate the vehicle. As I said he had a lot of trouble trying to re-program the chip. He would go to his laptop re-set the fuel, spark and air calibrations and it would not do anything significant to the a/f ratio, which is odd.

I WAS EXTREMEMLY DISAPPOINTED WITH THIS TUNER AND WOULD NEVER SEND ANYONE TO HIM.

Another mechanic had my truck running on the dyno for 2 hours with a brand new version of an $8k Snap on Scanner. He said everything checked out normal, except for the ETC which was failing at times. I have my doubts that the X-cal would reveal a problem if that test did not.

I would be willing to try the computer swap & MAF sensor SWAP James. You know how to contact me.

It sucks when you are trying hard to fix a problem and you turn to the board for help and get criticized. :thumbdwn:

 

[jah81592]

I don't believe that you are getting criticized I believe you are having a problem with too many people having thier own opinions. I have spent time trying to help you resolve the problem only to see that what I said taken with a grain of salt. Here is a perfect example:

Another mechanic had my truck running on the dyno for 2 hours with a brand new version of an $8k Snap on Scanner. He said everything checked out normal, except for the ETC which was failing at times. I have my doubts that the X-cal would reveal a problem if that test did not.

You have never used the ExCal for logging if there is a problem you will be able to save the log and send it to me for dissection. From there if I can't resolve it I have tech support at SCT look at it. But at this point you are so set in your ways that you won't even listen to anyone. I am not being harsh only trying to be a forum friend to help resolve your problem. I have taken everything you have into account and analyed it. Serious,not joking around.
He stated the ETC was failing at times,have you done anything to resolve that problem? The only ETC beknownst to me is Electronic Throttle Control (aka Drive By Wire), which your vehicle doesn't have. Or was he meaning ect which is engine control temp switch(sensor)? If this is bad the no wonder you have a fueling problem. If the engine is getting false signals thinking it would be colder than it actually is then it will fuel more.There are two sensors one for the guage and one for the computer so one can be right and one wrong. I wouldn't tell you to replace either. I would find the sensor or actuator which is suspect and perform the necessary test to see it the part is good. I wouldn't just go replace the part. Diagnosis is the key!

 

[Lazzman]

James, I would like to send a data log to you to analyze. At this time I do not have the resources to aquire a laptop computer, X-cal or Dyno Runs., so I have to do what I can to solve the problem.

You are correct it was the ECT sensor that was failing and it was replaced.

Your advice is not taken with a grain of salt, it is taken seriously. But this problem is not something that can be easily solved.

 

[jah81592]

James, I would like to send a data log to you to analyze. At this time I do not have the resources to aquire a laptop computer, X-cal or Dyno Runs., so I have to do what I can to solve the problem.

You are correct it was the ECT sensor that was failing and it was replaced.

Your advice is not taken with a grain of salt, it is taken seriously. But this problem is not something that can be easily solved.

Lazz, do you have any friends or locals at the dyno willing to let you use the ExCal for diagnostic purposes. Maybe someone off these forums live near you and would be willing to come over and datalog with thier computer and ExCal2. Just because the ExCal is locked to a vehicle it will only be locked for flashing a tune to the noted vehicle, you still can datalog any FOMOCO vehicle or pulled trouble codes,etc.

 

[aldive]

I do not have 24lb injectors, repeat I do not have 24lb injectors. The injectors in my engine are the exact same ones that came with the truck, same part number and everything is identical. I have no idea what lb they are. All I know is that they are the stock configuration i.e. what ever came with a 1998 V6 sohc motor.

Lazz, I am confused now. In a thread you did awhile back ( http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150581&page=8&highlight=injectors post #142, #144 and others ), you raved about these 24 pound injectors you got from some guy on this board.

James gave you sage advise about datalogging; head it.

Good luck ....

 

[Lazzman]

Al, do you think data logging is the key to everything?

You know there are some problems in engines that a computer cannot pick up.

So data log says Aldive, lets see.

$399 for an X-Cal
$199 for a scan tool
$899 for a laptop computer
$150 three dyno pulls

After this ridiculous investment in a truck that is worth about $2500, there is no guarantee that it will expose any problems. Computers cannot expose fuel related problems i.e. fuel pumps, injectors, fuel regulators, clogged rails or filters etc..

I would rather take my avenue, going with intuition and buy a used FPR assembly for $105 install it an be done with it. Even if that does not fix the problem, I don't care. I will be picking up a new H3 Hummer with the 300hp Small block Chevy and sending this heap to the bone yard mid summer. This is the last ditch effort, if it does not work "oh well", either way this truck is outa hear before years end.

So its a case of spending $105 or $1650 and neither will guarantee the problem will be fixed.

My truck is 9yrs old, has 158k mi on the clock and I am tired of dropping money and getting nothing in return.

If this truck were newer I would consider investing and fixing it.


Thanks to Aldive this post has gone way off topic.

Thanks to James Henson for identifying the incorrect FPR and pointing me in the right direction. From my schematics of the Explorer upper intake I was able to look at the sohc fpr and see exactly what it consisted of.

Peace

 

[aldive]

Al, do you think data logging is the key to everything?

You know there are some problems in engines that a computer cannot pick up.

The key to all problem solving is to first diagnose the problem(s). And yes, datalogging is an invaluable diagnostic tool; not the only tool but an essential one.

$399 for an X-Cal
$199 for a scan tool
$899 for a laptop computer
$150 three dyno pulls

After this ridiculous investment in a truck that is worth about $2500, there is no guarantee that it will expose any problems.

Maybe if you had listened to folks on this board years ago you might have not wasted so much money and have a truck that runs right. But you continue to argue with all and do it your way.

You still won't post the latest dyno chart. Maybe some of the good folks on this board could see a problem there and offer assistance.

Computers cannot expose fuel related problems i.e. fuel pumps, injectors, fuel regulators, clogged rails or filters etc..

Once again, you are mistaken.

I would rather take my avenue, going with intuition and buy a used FPR assembly for $105 install it an be done with it.

Good luck.

 

[jah81592]

Al, do you think data logging is the key to everything?

You know there are some problems in engines that a computer cannot pick up.

So data log says Aldive, lets see.

$399 for an X-Cal
$199 for a scan tool
$899 for a laptop computer
$150 three dyno pulls

After this ridiculous investment in a truck that is worth about $2500, there is no guarantee that it will expose any problems. Computers cannot expose fuel related problems i.e. fuel pumps, injectors, fuel regulators, clogged rails or filters etc..

I would rather take my avenue, going with intuition and buy a used FPR assembly for $105 install it an be done with it. Even if that does not fix the problem, I don't care. I will be picking up a new H3 Hummer with the 300hp Small block Chevy and sending this heap to the bone yard mid summer. This is the last ditch effort, if it does not work "oh well", either way this truck is outa hear before years end.

So its a case of spending $105 or $1650 and neither will guarantee the problem will be fixed.

My truck is 9yrs old, has 158k mi on the clock and I am tired of dropping money and getting nothing in return.

If this truck were newer I would consider investing and fixing it.


Thanks to Aldive this post has gone way off topic.

Thanks to James Henson for identifying the incorrect FPR and pointing me in the right direction. From my schematics of the Explorer upper intake I was able to look at the sohc fpr and see exactly what it consisted of.

Peace

Again another example of not listening to what I have tried to help with. You will go to parts swapping on the fpr another $105.00 and it may or may not repair the problem just adding to your anguish. I mentioned in post #51 of trying to find someone local which can datalog the vehicle to find what you need. You don't need a dyno you need real world driving logged with a WO2 to determine what your problem is I guarantee if you went to your local dyno and hung out you could find a SCT pro-racer or dealer who wouldn't mind hooking up to help you find what you need. I have been approached several times about similar stuff and always help because just maybe they'll remember and purchase something later. And usually I will get to retune and sometimes they'll send one of thier friends to me. I always approach it with an opportunity to help.
Secondly- You mention you have 158K on the truck and it isn't worth fixing. Mine has the same amount of miles and I feel it would be very worth fixing. I don't understand you can't afford tuning or computer or even to fly me up to fix/repair the vehicle for you but you can afford around 12-14mpg and a car payment to boot? I don't get it. How much do you want for the Ex-send pics and complete mods I would almost be willing to purchase it from you. If you are trading it in they would only give you around $1000 anyway. Hell I'll give you that now as it sits.

Secondly, I have went as far to offer to send you a computer and a stock MAF and you mention that I know how to get a hold of you. Well- it isn't my truck if you are serious about repairing the truck you will contact me. I was willing send the other computer and MAF under good faith you would return them to me(not even charging for them) and was going to pay for shipping out of my pocket to help-no other vendor would even be willing to do this.

Third, Finger pointing at Aldive is not going to get your problem corrected. He is right you have wasted dollar after dollar and not even given any concrete evidence of what is wrong. Aldive is right and datalogging can determine about 90% of what the problem is. Datalogging will reveal problems such as clogged filters and such you just have to know what you are looking at. For example if you have a clogged filter you will be lean on your wideband and the injector pulsewidth will be commanding a hell of alot more than usual (computers way of regulating the a/f), MAF #/min will be high,etc... Being a tuner I have the resources to get correct information from members of these forums on airflow just through getting a few to send me thier datalogs to compare.

Thanks to James Henson for identifying the incorrect FPR and pointing me in the right direction. From my schematics of the Explorer upper intake I was able to look at the sohc fpr and see exactly what it consisted of.

Peace

Finally, You are welcome for the information provided about the fpr. I still say this isn't your problem. Contact me if interested.-J

 

[Lazzman]

Thanks for all the help James and all the other folks who gave credible suggestions.

I am about done with a truck that has this milage on it. I have a demanding job that I spend 10hrs a day at and a 35mi drive each way to work, not to mention a wife who does not understand why I spend all of my time and money on a 9yr old beater truck.

She is right it is not worth it. I could be out having fun instead of under this thing busting my knuckles every weekend.

I just replaced the tie rods and I still need to replace the Torsion Bar insulators which have worn away. After that it will be the brakes, and the oil pan is rusting out, as is the rocker panels etc, etc...

My hopes for posting threads was to get a little good advice without so much crap (Aldive & Spindlecone) from other members about non sense. This is a thread about identifying the correct FPR, not posting dyno charts or listening to others advice about what they think my problem is.

Aldive's sole purpose on this website is to sit around and criticize other people, he believes he is king dog but he is really king nothing. Al lurks in the shadows silently, patiently and when he see's an opportunity to critcize something, he jumps at it.

I am done with the headaches.

 

[jah81592]

understood.

 

[Jakee]

The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know.

 

[Jakee]

Lazz - If James is sending the MAF and computer, I'm willing to send you my X-Cal. all you have to do is find a lap-top.

It's frustrating, but just take a step back from the truck for awhile. Give it some time.....

The offer stands, I'll send the X-cal. I don't even know you, and I'm going out on a limb here. i trust you'll send it back to me once datalogging is complete.

PS - You can rent a laptop from rent-a-center for a week.

 

[aldive]

I was going to offer an Xcal2. an AF meter and a laptop.