Flowmaster vs Dynomax vs borla??? | Page 2 | Ford Explorer Forums - Serious Explorations

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Flowmaster vs Dynomax vs borla???

Jason-get the entire system, keeping the resonator/stock piping is not a good idea. If you don't want the "system" get a muffler and have a shop install it along with new pipe from the cat-back.
Rob-You may very well be correct, we do agree but seem to be putting on different "plains". You've mentioned the "race" or "optimized" side of things while I am trying to stay strictly with the "stock" side. You mentioned that components need to be matched. But you seemed to be focusing on the highest flow type of systems as being best. A vehicle with stock intake/heads etc... will very likely suffer(or not benefit as much) from a "straight-through" exhaust than it would from one with a different style. If you put a straight pipe on an Explorer it probably wouldn't make as much power as one with Flowmaster etc... The intake isn't matched to the exhaust. That was my whole point, we're talking about a stock vehicle this time. If he had perf. heads, hi vol. intake then "hell yeah" contemplate the higher flow exhausts. Flowmaster could hinder the performance on something like that. These trucks need low-end power though, definitely! That's the only reason I haven't switched from Flowmaster yet. I've questioned if my system could be putting a damper on my performance now. I have a Vortech huffer, 4.10 gears and a few other toys on my Explorer. Under full acceleration the exhaust almost sounds like it's a little too corked. My "sled" will keep up with mildly tinkered 5.0 Mustangs(to a point) then it loses some ground. It holds it own though and I haven't seen another one touch it in the 2 years I've had it.
I have more questions on your 351 but it's time to take off, 5:00 pm!! I'm in the final planning stages of a 427ci 351w and want to discuss a few ideas.
 



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Boys, Boys, Boys... Lets all zip up our pants now... Dead Link Removed Here is the way we should look at it. Adding a Cat-Back Exhaust is cool, some side affects from it are some more power, better sound, and you can route it higher up so it don't get smashed all the time. I happen to not have any kind of custom exhaust on my truck at the moment. I do however have the KKM filter which is said to gain 10-15hp. Now I have no idea if this is right or not, but after I stuck it in there, I did notice a little seat of the pants performance gains. I am estimating that it probably gained 5-10 hp. Now I also have some headers sitting on my garage floor right now that I will get around to installing someday, but when I do install them I will look into getting a cat back, and even look into replacing the cat with a hi-flow one. With this kind of setup I am sure that I could reach the 50 hp that summit is claiming. From what I know the stock 4.0l for my year (92) makes 155-160 hp stock those are Fords numbers I belive. So with the improved TOTAL airflow of your engine, I would guess that 50 hp is not a bad number.

As far as what Jornum1's latest question is, I would ask your muffler shop to show you the differnce. What they can do is put the cat back all on your Explorer, then start it up and let you listen, then they can stick the resonator on the end of it and again let you listen.

QTRMILE:
Since you are a dragster type person. Dead Link Removed I have a question for you about drag racing. I have been to the local drag strip here a few times. (Bandimere Speedway) What I have picked up is that on amature night there are a few newer Mustangs that can go pretty dang fast. These Mustangs have the 4.6l (I am assuming highly modified) and basically get in the low 14's and 13's. If this is the case with a fuel injected motor on a modern car, how come the "real" drag racers still all use Carbs? This is something I have not been able to get a answer too yet. Dead Link Removed

Anyways Lets not stain the floor here. Dead Link Removed



------------------
Ryan Penner
1992 Explorer Sport
 






I recomend the Borla, if you plan on keeping your explorer, It seems that most people on this board would give up their wives, husbands, kids, pets or homes before they would give up their explorer. And since you have a 99 spend the extra bucks now and not worry about it.

I'm not trying to enter this pissin match, BUT I agree that just adding a cat-back exhaust doesn't gain much, you can have all the un(less)restricted air you want coming out of the engine, but if you can't feed it enough air then what's the point. When I installed the Borla on my 93 navajo, I floored it up and down the streets and got nothing more than spark-knocks, until I added the KKM air induction and let the 4.0 breathe a little better. I now definitely see a HP/TQ increase.
Just my opinion and observation.

DANO
 






I have a flowmaster cat back system on my 91 Navajo. It fit perfect, and I think it probably gave a little boost since I was running the original muffler and resonater with 130,000 miles on it. The real gains came with the addition of the KKM filter. I can tell I have more power because I can now glide up Vail pass and the divide at 65+ mph passing brand new trucks left and right, with 135,0000 miles no less! This proves something to me since I also put on larger tires also. Granted I keep it in drive and have 3.73 gears but I am verry happy. A qustion though, does anyone know what type of high flow converter to get from Dynomax. They are universal and come in a couple of different forms. Also, disregard qtrmiles comment on the chips. I built up my computer controlled Z28 and the chip is the only way to get the CPU to racalibrate certain power tuning essentials such as timing, air-fuel mixture, and nixing the rev limit. I plan on getting one for the old Navajo eventually,(after headers). Just my .02
 






Well I think that a custom burned chip made to your specs is differnt then going to a store getting one off the shelf and putting it in. I know for a fact that the chips raise the rev limit, and change the shift points on an automatic. Which could make it so you could rev higher getting more hp?

Ahh well.


------------------
Ryan Penner
1992 Explorer Sport
 






Ryan-
Just because the numbers are coming from the manufacturers doesn't mean they are accurate. Look at the '99 cobras; they are supposed to be Ford's best (they even have the engine builders sign the damn thing) but people have dynoed them and seen them come up 50hp short of claimed. It's even prompted lawsuits.


I've got a question here, too. Do the SOHC and OHV 4.0L engines get about the same gains off of a catback?

Also, who makes one for the SOHC besides borla? I haven't seen it from Gibson or flowmaster
 






the flowmaster says 15hp, but thats at the crank not rear wheel horspower. I think the borla gives you i think 7hp, but that is rear wheel horsepower which is a difference over the crank. I too have the flowmaster and had a the superturbo cat back from dynomax. I could tell a differnce between the two. I had better response with the flowmaster. Look at magnaflows. I have one sitting in my garage waiting to try it. The magnaflow has the same design as the borla. Its a S shape straight through design and should give about the same performance as the borla.
Brian
 






This discussion seems like too much fun to stay out of!

I wanted to give you guys a good example of a real test done to a real truck with real results done in the real world. This came out of the October issue of Peterson's 4Wheel and it is just to help people get an idea of what to expect from exhaust systems.

The test was done using a GM Goodwrench replacement motor. All tests were done in the same conditions and all results are taken from the motor and not at the wheels.

test (1) is stock motor
test (2) is with Flowmaster mufflers
test (3) is with Hedman Hedders & mufflers
test (4) is with H-pipe
test (5) is open Hedders

results: @ 4,500 rpm
test (1) 240hp
test (2) 246hp
test (3) 262hp
test (4) 264hp
test (5) 263hp

The article goes on to say that the mufflers alone are good for up to 8hp (on this motor)

It also said that the Headers are good for up to 14hp (on this motor)

I just wanted to offer some substantiated independant tests for you guys to have a look at. I know that this test was done on a bigger motor and an Explorer would get different results...just use the information as a benchmark. If you want I can send the article to you. Hope this helps

Eric
 






The bladders seem to be just about empty on this one...

First off, Scott, if you reread my original posts I say EXACTLY what you are talking about. On a stock system you are not going to gain much. That is why I said "focus on sound!" The discussion kind of took a tangent Dead Link Removed

Ryan, that's a pretty good question. And the answer is pretty simple. There are a couple reasons drag racers (myself included) stick with carbs:

1. Cheaper. On a efi car you have the mass air meter, the throttle body, the injectors, and the expensive upper and lower intake manifolds. Add a dyno session and custom chip burnt for your combo to get the a/f curves the way you need them and you are looking at a ton of cash...

2. Carbs are easier to tune (at least in the opinion of the carb owners...) The eeciv is a pretty complex system that requires a lot of knowledge to conquer. You either have to trust the computer's ability to manage your engine, or tap into it somehow to manage it yourself. I built a Vortech supercharged motor for a guy and we use an Anderson Motorsport "Programable Engine System" or PMS. It allows us to adjust injector pulse width, fuel pressure, read O2 sensor data, retard the timing, etc. Really works trick. But the thing is expensive and reallly takes a skilled tuner to get it right. I don't pretend to be that tuner, we actually enlisted another guy to help us with that.

3. So many of the drag racers you see are kinda "old school." They have been racing for a long time and have always known carbs. Technology scares a lot of people, I know it scared me for a while before I discovered efi is just a fancy carb Dead Link Removed

There are a ton of "real" racers out there using efi. Jason Betwarda had the fastest 5.0 in the country before he perished testing earlier this year. If you go to one of the major events you'll see a lot of the fastest guys with carbs and nitrous, but you'll see a lot of others with efi and superchargers or turbos. If I had the money I would build a turbo car to replace the carb'd 351 I have now. The guy who helped us tune that PMS has a single turbo Mustang that ran 9.40's at 140mph. And it was quiet like a stocker. That is a sleeper!

Later, Rob

------------------
no Explorers, but plenty of Fords:
'82 Mustang GT 351W
'82 F250 351W
'91 Mustang LX 5.0
'78 Mustang II pro street
 






Jason,

I installed a Flowmaster cat back system three days ago.

I have a K&N filter and a 4 sq. inch cut out in the airbox.

I agonized over buying the "system" or just the muffler for a couple of weeks, but finally decided to get the system for two reasons. 1) Easier and surer installation. 2) Mandrel bent pipes (smoother inside surface.) The cost for my 96 4.0L was $181 with handling from Summit. The exhaust shop charged $35 to install. Took 45 minutes. If you've got the time and place to do it, it's a pretty simple swap.

The guy who manages the exhaust shop where I went is a dragster, and he noted he has Flowmaster on all his cars, personal and competition. He also felt the Flowmaster pipes were worth it, as did a hot rod builder friend of mine who uses them.

As far as power changes go, i can tell you that even with the K&N and the cut out air box, there are a couple of hills i take that cause the tranny to downshift about 2/3 the way up. When I took them after the Flowmaster on, no downshift. The truck sure feels quicker out of the hole now, too...but that could just be wishful thinking on my part.

As far as the sound, I am completely satisfied. Not obnoxious at all, but definitely not stock. Excellent rumble on hard acceleration, especially in lower gears. Not sure what the comment about "Flowmaster drone," meant...but every car I've ever had with a "custom" exhaust had some sort of low note rumble at cruise. Anyhow, I find nothing objectionable about the sound this thing emits.

Final analysis: Rightous sound and obvious power increase...in my opinion, good value for the $$$$s. However, if you haven't done some intake mods, such as a K&N filter and opening the airbox up some, you really need that too.

ERIC
 






My question takes a different turn. I know what type of muffler to put on (thanks to all the posts). But what I'm not sure of is how to route the exhaust pipe? The stock sytem as you all know comes out behind the right rear tire. All the ones I see running Borlas are routed out the back under the bumper. I have read posts that the tail pipe rattles against the bumper. The muffler shop that is going to install the cat back system says to route the tail pipe behind the rear tire for the simple reason that exhuast gasses will come in through the tailgate. Is this true or a bunch of BS. Please help!

Thanks,
Mike
 






I would have it exit to the side to avoid that possibility. I've heard the same thing from different sources and it could happen. Look at how quickly dirt can build up on the rear window due to the lack of good airflow.
 






Hey i wonder about the exit route as well, i am considering a snorkel and would like to route my exhaust high. i plan on having my exp for a long time and modifying extensively and was thinking i would like to run my tip or dual tips out level with the bumper or a little higher but in cutouts in the lower rear quarter panel. just a thought.

dodger
 






Hi gang... Great msg board for a great vehicle. My '92 Sport with 105K miles replaces a Chevy S-Tin Blazer, which replaced a '72 Scout. We've come a long way! Have been following, with mild amusment, the discussion, but I'd like to get more info on the modifications to air filters and airboxes (4-inch hole???!) What's the scoop? (Ouch!)
 






Oh boy, I have entered a good one. Mine is rather short (compared to some here). My honest opinion...... Flowmasters: Too loud (came from the Mustang crowd and know just what the Drone is that has been discussed) Dynomax: Inexpensive, sound stock at idle and have a nice agressive sound off idle (ran them on my Mustang, and now on my Explorer) Borla: Expensive, great sound and quality. If you live in states where salt is used on the road...... the only way to go. I didn't have that concern, so couldn't see spending the money.

As far as placement goes. As long as you have the pipe that curves over the rear axle, and you wheel hard with extra rear travel, you are going to have exhaust problems. First muffler had the back torn out from this. My solution was to run right under the body..... rigidly mount the muffler and run flexible tubing in between. Exits under the body, before the bumper (was melting the plastic top on the bumper before we moved it back). I know this sounds silly to some, but exhaust, with extreme wheeling does not get along. The flexible pipe is easy to replace, both on and off the trail. Also run headers, and will be getting a hi-flow cat (which will also be rigidly mounted). Think about what you will be doing with the truck, and design accordingly. Talk to the people who are doing the same as you want to do. As has been said, most any muffler will offer minimal gain on a stock engine..... however, if you are going to modify the engine further, you can plan on the whole picture. This avoids making mistakes (and wasting money), on mods that do not work together. Have fun modifying your truck...... that is part of the fun of ownership. JMHO Dead Link Removed)
 






The muffler I use on my Explorer is called a "Vortec." I had never heard of it before, but supposedly its a good brand, and the people at the parts store said its comparable to Flowmaster in sound. I use one of these on my V8 (plus I bypassed the resonator in the tail pipe) and its got a nice deep tone to it. I once saw a V8 Mountaineer with a Borla system. But I am not sure if this was cat-back...it has the Borla muffler and tips but the resonator in the tailpipe was still there. Honestly, I wasnt totally impressed with Borla. It definatley sounds better than stock, no doubt, but the tone just didnt compare with mine.

As for V6 engines, I used to have a 94 with the 4.0. I had a Dynomax catback on that, and it definatley gave a better tone than stock, but wasnt TOO loud. You could hear it under acceleration, but that was about it. After a couple of years or so, I threw one of those red Thrush "glass packs" with the straight through design (I think DYnomax makes these?) I really loved the sound of this. It didnt 'blat' and it didnt sound ignorant. It had a nice deep tone to it, but didnt annoy you on long trips.

Well, those are my Explorer exhaust experiences. Its hard to choose a muffler for your rig without being able to hear it first. I think some website had a bunch of exhaust sound clips for all sorts of makes and models....exhaustsoundclips.com I believe it was. It may be of help. While we are on topics of exhaust....can anyone tell me if there is a thread about building a dual exhaust? I'd like to try to fabricate one on my 96 5.0, but I'd like to see some pics if anyone has some. Thanks!
 






my exhaust is quite simple and effective
where the stock pipes come off the engine and go into a single pipe my stock exhaust was cut off there cats and all from that point back i have 2 1/2inch piping stright back to a 40series flowmaster with a 3inch turn down tip on it the turn down is right in front of the rear axle on the passenger side
its not super loud its has a very deep powerful tone to it everybody tells me it sounds very good ive even had some people ask me if i swap in a V8 at idel it does sound very much like a V8
this exhaust was put on by the previous owner who happen to be my best friend so its been on about 3years now still sounds mean as the day it was put on maybe a lil louder tho

well theres my 2cents worth hopefully it will help somebody out

btw according to the dyno my exhaust and K&N air filter alone i gained 19.4hp and 11.8HP at the rear wheels
 






I have the Gibson too and love it, my brother got his from ebay but I wanted a valid warranty(the winter salt here destroys metal) so I got it here. gibson 14403, or you can try one of the vendors here on the forum, they are always having sales/specials. Either way its a great system and very easy to install and for the price you give it a look.
 






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