Good deal?

RN2003AZ · 07-29-2012, 06:34 PM

At the dealer today and this is what we were talking... wondering your thoughts!

2013 Ex XLT AWD Kodiak Brown/Charcoal leather
Equip Group 202A
Options: Floor mats, power liftgate, dual moonroof, tow pkg, Navi system, 20" wheels.

MSRP $42,865
- $1000 Ford cash
- $750 coupon
- $720 dealer money (which I'm discovering now is the equip discount on the sticker so now I'm mad because I really think I'm getting screwed.)

$40,365

They are also including a $495 remote starter into this deal.

I walked out because they wouldn't come down another $1000.

Thoughts?

JUtecht · 07-29-2012, 06:50 PM

Go to Edmunds.com to get the True Market Value of the X, then you will know if you were in the ball park or not. It will also give you the Dealer Invoice for the X so you'll know what the dealer price was. I tried to look it up for you, but you didn't say whether it was AWD or FWD, and with the features listed your MSRP was a little high for what I looked up so you might try it yourself with your specific features.

RN2003AZ · 07-29-2012, 07:15 PM

It's a AWD... I fixed the OP. I had the True Car printout in the dealership today and they kept saying those numbers were just estimates and not true. Once I got home and pulled the sticker off their site, I realized where their $720 cash was coming from.

onaropus · 07-29-2012, 07:44 PM

The Edmonds printout was spot on with the x-plan prices my dealer showed me.

tiresmoke · 07-29-2012, 08:47 PM

I didn't even bother trying to buy a 2013 because I was still able to locate a 2012. I know for the 2012, I was $500 under invoice + $1500 rebate so I felt good about the deal. If I look at edmunds "true price", this was under what they said was fair for a '12... surprisingly, there didn't seem to be a substantial increase for what they said was fair for a '13. I knew it wasn't going to be that easy to get a comparable deal on the '13 so I took the '12.

spitfisher · 07-29-2012, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RN2003AZ

At the dealer today and this is what we were talking... wondering your thoughts!

2013 Ex XLT AWD Kodiak Brown/Charcoal leather
Equip Group 202A
Options: Floor mats, power liftgate, dual moonroof, tow pkg, Navi system, 20" wheels.

MSRP $42,865
- $1000 Ford cash
- $750 coupon
- $720 dealer money (which I'm discovering now is the equip discount on the sticker so now I'm mad because I really think I'm getting screwed.)

$40,365

They are also including a $495 remote starter into this deal.

I walked out because they wouldn't come down another $1000.

Thoughts?

No trade involved? If so you are only looking at one piece of the puzzle. Were these figures given to you in the parking lot? Or inside of an office or cube? Was this you first real visit?

Dealers usually do not talk real numbers until you prove to them you are serious IMO.

OzzieMike · 07-30-2012, 07:40 AM

I would ask your dealer to print out the Ford X-plan price for the vehicle, then compare their quote to that.

Having just purchased (10 days ago) a new Explorer, the price your dealer's offering doesn't seem out of line to me...especially if they're throwing in remote start.

RN2003AZ · 07-30-2012, 07:55 AM

Yes, there is a trade involved. It's a break even. We were in the dealership at the guy's desk talking numbers. Also after a test drive. This was after I called that morning to find out if they had what I was looking for on the lot.

What irritated me the most was they made it look like they were giving $720 off when in reality it was already the true MSRP of the vehicle. I wasn't looking directly at the sticker when we were talking so I knew the price was $42... But wasn't exactly sure of the number. So the only thing they truly gave me off was the $495 for the starter. They were selling the vehicle at MSRP (and the Ford incentives).

Edmunds is saying TMV is $39... For the exact vehicle. True car was similar. They wouldn't touch those numbers and insisted that they were only "estimates" and that the dealer price listed wasn't true.

VinceL · 07-30-2012, 08:50 AM

X-Plan for that vehicle, assuming I built it correctly is:

$39,745

So when you take off $1750 for the dealer cash and coupon you should be looking at:

$37995-ish

Then figure in $495 for remote start if you want that. Also, add back in X-Plan fees they can charge, which can go no higher than $375. So... worst case should be in the ballpark of:

$38,865, plus TT&L

It sounds to me like they are trying to make as much money off of you as possible, which of course they all do

As best I can figure, the deal they are offering you stinks, and I'd either call them on it, or go to a different dealership.

As for the X-Plan, if you don't wanna fuss with bargaining, it is a fair deal. If you like to haggle, and enjoy the process, you should be able to beat it by a couple of hundred bucks or more depending on how hard you want to work the deal.

*peterk9* · 07-30-2012, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RN2003AZ

At the dealer today and this is what we were talking... wondering your thoughts!

2013 Ex XLT AWD Kodiak Brown/Charcoal leather
Equip Group 202A
Options: Floor mats, power liftgate, dual moonroof, tow pkg, Navi system, 20" wheels.

MSRP $42,865
- $1000 Ford cash
- $750 coupon
- $720 dealer money (which I'm discovering now is the equip discount on the sticker so now I'm mad because I really think I'm getting screwed.)

$40,365

They are also including a $495 remote starter into this deal.

I walked out because they wouldn't come down another $1000.

Thoughts?

I have always believed that a good deal is one that you, the buyer, is happy with. If you're not happy, walk away. What one person thinks isn't a good deal, may be a good deal to someone else.
You have to remember that it is a business. You are trying to save as much as you can while the other side still has to make a profit. It always comes down to your call no matter what.

As for the floor mats, if they are the all weather ones, I would forget those. There are much better ones available such as Husky or WeatherTech. Husky has a group buy discount and there is also a Forum sponsor who sell both. See if they would throw in the cargo mat instead.
Check out the following thread; http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=360407

Peter

plumbago · 07-30-2012, 09:06 AM

Ask to see the invoice price sheet. Offer them that price or maybe $100 over invoice. Then take your $1000 rebate off and that's a pretty fair price...The Dealer still has 2-3% hold over, but most won't dip into that, as it's their profit...If they are reluctant to show you the Invoice, simply figure it as 6.5% off the MSRP and you will be close....I just bought the new EcoBoost for $50.00 over invoice plus the $1000 rebate off.....best regards Plum

tiresmoke · 07-30-2012, 09:08 AM

I'm assuming that the MSRP you quoted was not the true MSRP because the package discount was not yet subtracted. Of course, you now realize that that wasn't really a "discount" any more than your local McDonald's is giving just you a special discount off a Big Mac meal because it's cheaper than if you bought the burger, soda, and fries separately.

Honestly, despite whatever kind of pricing they ultimately would or would not give you, I'd be quite leery of doing business with any dealership that is willing to be so shady. That's exactly the kind of nonsense that is an indicator of dubious intentions.

So let's look at the math:

$42,865 - $720 = $42,145 (true MSRP) - $750 (coupon) - $1000 (rebate) = $40,395 (dealer's asking price)

So basically, if they took NOTHING off the sticker, they are giving you a whopping $30 as a dealer discount. That is complete crap. If it wasn't for the fact that you were getting the remote starter, you'd basically be playing sticker for the vehicle.

Speaking of the remote starter, are they saying they are putting in the OEM starter or aftermarket? If you go to ford.accessories.com, you can see what full MSRP is for the kits that fit the Explorer. None of them are $500 so depending on which one they are installing, there is a mark up for installation (on top of the mark up for the starter kit itself).

For an MSRP of $42,145, you should figure about $3k+ over invoice. My guess is that your true discount over invoice that they offered you as described is probably only about $300. There should be absolutely no problem for them to come down much more than that.

I'm not sure what availability is in your area; but as I mentioned above, I was able to find a more substantial discount off a 2012. However, even on a 2013, you were wise to walk away.

*peterk9* · 07-30-2012, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tiresmoke

I didn't even bother trying to buy a 2013 because I was still able to locate a 2012. I know for the 2012, I was $500 under invoice + $1500 rebate so I felt good about the deal. If I look at edmunds "true price", this was under what they said was fair for a '12... surprisingly, there didn't seem to be a substantial increase for what they said was fair for a '13. I knew it wasn't going to be that easy to get a comparable deal on the '13 so I took the '12.

Welcome to the Forum tiresmoke.

As I said in another post, a good deal is one that you are happy with. What model did you get. It doesn't show anything in the profile or Vehicle Specs.
Happy motoring.

Peter

*peterk9* · 07-30-2012, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzzieMike

I would ask your dealer to print out the Ford X-plan price for the vehicle, then compare their quote to that.

Having just purchased (10 days ago) a new Explorer, the price your dealer's offering doesn't seem out of line to me...especially if they're throwing in remote start.

Congratulations on your recent purchase and welcome to the Forum.

Always nice to see new members on board.

Peter

tiresmoke · 07-30-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterk9

Welcome to the Forum tiresmoke.

As I said in another post, a good deal is one that you are happy with. What model did you get. It doesn't show anything in the profile or Vehicle Specs.
Happy motoring.

Peter

Thanks. It's a '12 XLT, red candy / charcoal leather, 205A / nav / 20" wheels.

blwnsmoke · 07-30-2012, 10:12 AM

Keep in.mind a $495 remote starter is really a $100 bundle of wires and $395 in labor.. the equipment is dirt cheap so I would only say that really costs the dealer $150 installed their cost.

Readmeli · 07-30-2012, 10:58 AM

Do what we did - print out all of similar vehicles in the area from AutoTrader or similar online and then know what you can get when you go in there. Many of them show the price they "offer" that includes all incentives and discounts. We paid $35,500 for same type/package of vehicle, no power liftgate/moonroof/20" wheels/remote start, but we got voice nav. Are those options you have worth $5,000 more?

spitfisher · 07-30-2012, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Readmeli

Do what we did - print out all of similar vehicles in the area from AutoTrader or similar online and then know what you can get when you go in there. Many of them show the price they "offer" that includes all incentives and discounts. We paid $35,500 for same type/package of vehicle, no power liftgate/moonroof/20" wheels/remote start, but we got voice nav. Are those options you have worth $5,000 more?

or tell them you are ready to buy but you want 2 grand more for your trade and a competitive finance % rate.......then make a move to the door. They''ll call you the following day....

RN2003AZ · 07-30-2012, 11:27 AM

Thanks all! We walked and I found a dealer to honor the edmunds.com price of $39,520 for that exact vehicle. They are willing to try to get it for me from that dealership yesterday. The guy I spoke to was shocked when I told him what happened. Sad thing is, the original dealer is also part of edmunds and didn't want to talk about it.

The availability of the Kodiak Brown is slim pickings around here. That's why we went where we did yesterday.

I'll keep you posted as to what happens. I'm waiting for phone calls back with exact numbers.

blwnsmoke · 07-30-2012, 03:12 PM

Don't forget to find out all fees involved and negotiate those. If they say they are not negotiable, walk.

My local dealer that got my Ex from sells all vehicles at $XX,X95. He rounds the invoice up to the last 2 digits to be $95. So if invoice was $37,542.. you pay $37,595 plus title fee only. He doesn't charge ANY other fees but title. Great place to do with because you always pay within $100 of invoice.. no games.. no negotiating.

There is no reason to pay more then $100 for fees plus title.

07-29-2012, 06:34 PM	#1
RN2003AZ Wannabe Elite Explorer Massachusetts 2013 XLT Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 38 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Good deal? At the dealer today and this is what we were talking... wondering your thoughts! 2013 Ex XLT AWD Kodiak Brown/Charcoal leather Equip Group 202A Options: Floor mats, power liftgate, dual moonroof, tow pkg, Navi system, 20" wheels. MSRP $42,865 - $1000 Ford cash - $750 coupon - $720 dealer money (which I'm discovering now is the equip discount on the sticker so now I'm mad because I really think I'm getting screwed.) $40,365 They are also including a $495 remote starter into this deal. I walked out because they wouldn't come down another $1000. Thoughts? Last edited by RN2003AZ; 07-29-2012 at 07:15 PM.

07-29-2012, 07:15 PM	#3
RN2003AZ Wannabe Elite Explorer Massachusetts 2013 XLT Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 38 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Thanks! It's a AWD... I fixed the OP. I had the True Car printout in the dealership today and they kept saying those numbers were just estimates and not true. Once I got home and pulled the sticker off their site, I realized where their $720 cash was coming from.

07-30-2012, 08:50 AM	#9
VinceL Wannabe Elite Explorer Spring, TX 2013 Explorer Limited Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 2,164 Vehicle Specs	X-Plan for that vehicle, assuming I built it correctly is: $39,745 So when you take off $1750 for the dealer cash and coupon you should be looking at: $37995-ish Then figure in $495 for remote start if you want that. Also, add back in X-Plan fees they can charge, which can go no higher than $375. So... worst case should be in the ballpark of: $38,865, plus TT&L It sounds to me like they are trying to make as much money off of you as possible, which of course they all do As best I can figure, the deal they are offering you stinks, and I'd either call them on it, or go to a different dealership. As for the X-Plan, if you don't wanna fuss with bargaining, it is a fair deal. If you like to haggle, and enjoy the process, you should be able to beat it by a couple of hundred bucks or more depending on how hard you want to work the deal. __________________ We just bought American! She got the 2013 Ex Meet the Gray Ghost HERE Check out the Gray Ghost on Fuelly.com Average Mileage: 21.3 Best Tank: 26.5

07-30-2012, 10:58 AM	#17
Readmeli Wannabe Elite Explorer Rhinelander, WI 2013 Ford Explorer XLT Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 27 Vehicle Specs	Do what we did - print out all of similar vehicles in the area from AutoTrader or similar online and then know what you can get when you go in there. Many of them show the price they "offer" that includes all incentives and discounts. We paid $35,500 for same type/package of vehicle, no power liftgate/moonroof/20" wheels/remote start, but we got voice nav. Are those options you have worth $5,000 more? __________________ First time Explorer owner!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Is this a good deal? 2011 Explorer Limited	explorernoles	Stock 2011 - 2014 Ford Explorer Discussion	11	01-05-2012 01:07 AM
Good Deal?	RockinExplorer	Stock 1995 - 2001 Explorers	2	03-03-2011 06:50 PM
Is this a good deal?	chaser87	Stock 2002 - 2005 Explorers	3	08-27-2010 12:14 PM
Good Deal?	hunter31	Stock 1995 - 2001 Explorers	10	12-20-2009 01:02 AM
Buying another Ex...Good Deal?	tsilney	Stock 1995 - 2001 Explorers	8	09-27-2009 09:32 PM

07-29-2012, 06:50 PM	#2
JUtecht Wannabe Elite Explorer Awaiting 2013 XLT Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 80 Vehicle Specs	Go to Edmunds.com to get the True Market Value of the X, then you will know if you were in the ball park or not. It will also give you the Dealer Invoice for the X so you'll know what the dealer price was. I tried to look it up for you, but you didn't say whether it was AWD or FWD, and with the features listed your MSRP was a little high for what I looked up so you might try it yourself with your specific features.

07-29-2012, 07:44 PM	#4
onaropus Wannabe Elite Explorer Houston, TX 2013 Explorer Limited Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 64 Vehicle Specs	The Edmonds printout was spot on with the x-plan prices my dealer showed me.

07-29-2012, 08:47 PM	#5
tiresmoke Wannabe Elite Explorer 2012 Explorer XLT Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 56 Vehicle Specs	I didn't even bother trying to buy a 2013 because I was still able to locate a 2012. I know for the 2012, I was $500 under invoice + $1500 rebate so I felt good about the deal. If I look at edmunds "true price", this was under what they said was fair for a '12... surprisingly, there didn't seem to be a substantial increase for what they said was fair for a '13. I knew it wasn't going to be that easy to get a comparable deal on the '13 so I took the '12.

07-30-2012, 07:40 AM	#7
OzzieMike Wannabe Elite Explorer Broken Arrow, OK 2013 Ford Explorer XLT Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 42 Vehicle Specs	I would ask your dealer to print out the Ford X-plan price for the vehicle, then compare their quote to that. Having just purchased (10 days ago) a new Explorer, the price your dealer's offering doesn't seem out of line to me...especially if they're throwing in remote start.

07-30-2012, 07:55 AM	#8
RN2003AZ Wannabe Elite Explorer Massachusetts 2013 XLT Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 38 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Yes, there is a trade involved. It's a break even. We were in the dealership at the guy's desk talking numbers. Also after a test drive. This was after I called that morning to find out if they had what I was looking for on the lot. What irritated me the most was they made it look like they were giving $720 off when in reality it was already the true MSRP of the vehicle. I wasn't looking directly at the sticker when we were talking so I knew the price was $42... But wasn't exactly sure of the number. So the only thing they truly gave me off was the $495 for the starter. They were selling the vehicle at MSRP (and the Ford incentives). Edmunds is saying TMV is $39... For the exact vehicle. True car was similar. They wouldn't touch those numbers and insisted that they were only "estimates" and that the dealer price listed wasn't true.

07-30-2012, 09:06 AM	#11
plumbago Wannabe Elite Explorer 2013 XLT EcoBoost Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 138 Vehicle Specs	Ask to see the invoice price sheet. Offer them that price or maybe $100 over invoice. Then take your $1000 rebate off and that's a pretty fair price...The Dealer still has 2-3% hold over, but most won't dip into that, as it's their profit...If they are reluctant to show you the Invoice, simply figure it as 6.5% off the MSRP and you will be close....I just bought the new EcoBoost for $50.00 over invoice plus the $1000 rebate off.....best regards Plum

07-30-2012, 09:08 AM	#12
tiresmoke Wannabe Elite Explorer 2012 Explorer XLT Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 56 Vehicle Specs	I'm assuming that the MSRP you quoted was not the true MSRP because the package discount was not yet subtracted. Of course, you now realize that that wasn't really a "discount" any more than your local McDonald's is giving just you a special discount off a Big Mac meal because it's cheaper than if you bought the burger, soda, and fries separately. Honestly, despite whatever kind of pricing they ultimately would or would not give you, I'd be quite leery of doing business with any dealership that is willing to be so shady. That's exactly the kind of nonsense that is an indicator of dubious intentions. So let's look at the math: $42,865 - $720 = $42,145 (true MSRP) - $750 (coupon) - $1000 (rebate) = $40,395 (dealer's asking price) So basically, if they took NOTHING off the sticker, they are giving you a whopping $30 as a dealer discount. That is complete crap. If it wasn't for the fact that you were getting the remote starter, you'd basically be playing sticker for the vehicle. Speaking of the remote starter, are they saying they are putting in the OEM starter or aftermarket? If you go to ford.accessories.com, you can see what full MSRP is for the kits that fit the Explorer. None of them are $500 so depending on which one they are installing, there is a mark up for installation (on top of the mark up for the starter kit itself). For an MSRP of $42,145, you should figure about $3k+ over invoice. My guess is that your true discount over invoice that they offered you as described is probably only about $300. There should be absolutely no problem for them to come down much more than that. I'm not sure what availability is in your area; but as I mentioned above, I was able to find a more substantial discount off a 2012. However, even on a 2013, you were wise to walk away.

07-30-2012, 10:12 AM	#16
blwnsmoke Wannabe Elite Explorer Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 783 Vehicle Specs	Keep in.mind a $495 remote starter is really a $100 bundle of wires and $395 in labor.. the equipment is dirt cheap so I would only say that really costs the dealer $150 installed their cost.

07-30-2012, 11:27 AM	#19
RN2003AZ Wannabe Elite Explorer Massachusetts 2013 XLT Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 38 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Thanks all! We walked and I found a dealer to honor the edmunds.com price of $39,520 for that exact vehicle. They are willing to try to get it for me from that dealership yesterday. The guy I spoke to was shocked when I told him what happened. Sad thing is, the original dealer is also part of edmunds and didn't want to talk about it. The availability of the Kodiak Brown is slim pickings around here. That's why we went where we did yesterday. I'll keep you posted as to what happens. I'm waiting for phone calls back with exact numbers.

07-30-2012, 03:12 PM	#20
blwnsmoke Wannabe Elite Explorer Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 783 Vehicle Specs	Don't forget to find out all fees involved and negotiate those. If they say they are not negotiable, walk. My local dealer that got my Ex from sells all vehicles at $XX,X95. He rounds the invoice up to the last 2 digits to be $95. So if invoice was $37,542.. you pay $37,595 plus title fee only. He doesn't charge ANY other fees but title. Great place to do with because you always pay within $100 of invoice.. no games.. no negotiating. There is no reason to pay more then $100 for fees plus title.