Lockers in the Snow

[CarFreak146]

I'm thinking of getting a locker for the rear end of my 94. Now, I'm wondering, how does a locker, like a Detroit, do in the snow, being locked all the time?? Will it give me better traction? Wow, that sounds like a dumb question, b/c it will, but it seems like if you have 100% power going to both wheels at all times, it may make me spin the tires more often. I hope that makes sense, and I hope someone can help me out b4 I think about buying one.

[Alec]

Yes, you need to be careful with an aggressive LS or auto locker in slick conditions. Too much throttle and you'll just spin. However, with proper throttle control you should be fine.

[Bored_2wd]

While some people may say it's worse, my personal experience on snowy icy roads is that it was a vast improvement over the open diff. My truck sees almost 100% road. With the open differntial in back, I had a hard time in 2wd starting from a stop, even in just 1/2 inch or less of snow or slushy goop. With a manual trans, I was always spinning a tire.
Now with a powertrax noslip in the back, I don't use 4wd much at all. I start out great from stops, and can get in my driveway much easier(it's sloped). It is enough of an improvement to make me say that I'll never own a pickup truck without one again.
That said, there are some definite effects on driving. When I initially drove it after I'd installed it, I couldn't stand it. It was horrible! Here are some tricks I learned that made a vast difference in drivability:
1) A rear locker is VERY sensitive to wheel diameter. On the road, I've found that my tires (325x60xr15 bfg) must be at the same psi, and at least 25psi. Due to their size, I used to ride with 18 or 19 psi in the rear tires when unloaded. Anything higher than that caused a harsh ride in my truck. With the new locker, less than 25 psi will allow the outside tire to compress too much in a turn, causing the locker to lock and unlock, etc. A slightly higher psi made it much better. It's very sensitive so tire pressure must be the same on each side. Very important!
2) Turning can be a problem until you learn how to turn. I was used to just tromping on the gas, accelerating through the turn. It caused horrible screaching of tires, bad control, etc. with the locker. The key is to give the locker a chance to disengage a tire. Let's say you're turning left in an intersection. As you pull into the intersection, ease up on the gas before you start your turn. The outside tire will 'override' the locker, and you can accelerate out of the turn. Keep in mind that with an open diff you're powering the outside wheel that the truck is leaning towards (weight shift to the outside). With the locker, you're powering the inside wheel, the one weight wants to shift off of. Taking it easy in turns will dramatically ease this issue.
3) With a right turn(very tight turn)from a stop, get a little momentum going, ease up slightly on the gas as you start your turn, then go through. As long as ease up the pressure on the locker, it will allow a wheel to override the other wheel. If you just gas it and cut the wheel, you're not allowing a wheel to release.
All this said, my wife drives my truck all the time and never noticed I'd put in the locker. It doesn't bother her at all, she doesn't know what I was talking about and can't see any change other than not spinning a tire in the rain as much. I guess I noticed it so much because 1) I knew that a change had been made and 2) I have a more aggressive driving style than her.
Hope this helps! Go for it! Lockers are for everyone, even if you never see off-road! Check out the powertrax web site, it's got some great material on it!
--Bob

[CarFreak146]

great info Bored....Thanks. I guessed I should have mentioned before that I have the LS rear end, but on the issue of only running 20 psi: I run 23/11.50 BFG's and the recommended psi is 50, so wouldn't only running 20 be dangerous?? and also, I thought that with the detroit EZ locker and the Powertrax LockRite, they are always engaged. Am i wrong on this?

[Alec]

The recommended psi for your tires is NOT 50, that's the max. I'd run them at 32-35.

Auto lockers are not always engaged, they automatically engage and disengage mechanically. A spool or lincoln locker (welded diff) is a fully locked axle.

[CarFreak146]

thanks alec, I was running them at 35, but then decided i should run them closer to max.... I will now change it back..... Thanks alec...... now, which do you recommend for mine...... Detroit EZ or the Powertrax Lock Rite. I DO going wheelin more than most, but not a lot (college interferes) and I have a two hours higway drive to get back home. Which do you think would be better??

[Alec]

Is the selectable ARB out of the question?

There are also the Eaton and Detroit electric selectable lockers which are LS when disengaged, but they're a bit pricey.

There's also the Aussie Locker supposedly coming out soon, but I wouldn't hold my breath for a close release date.

[CarFreak146]

I wanna put a slectable locker in the front, but am not doing that until I get my D44 Solid axle up there. and the aussie locker would be great also, but like you said, I'd like to get one soon.... This is also my daily driver, so I like that fact that the auto lockers are seemingly maintenance free.

[Alec]

seemingly....until they break

A properly installed selectable should be just as reliable as an autolocker.

If you can handle the bit of unpredicability with an autolocker go ahead, but if it were me I'd go selectable just to be sure I didn't end up in an unwanted situation.

[Bored_2wd]

50 psi is only for when you are carrying weight or towing at or near the maximum capacity for your truck. Normal psi should be much lower, normally around 30-35psi.
I've got a ranger, so there's very little weight over the back tires. With a tire 12.8 inches wide, it's not a problem. Actually now that I think about it I think I'm at 32psi in front, 25 in rear.

You are correct, a locker is engaged all the time to at least one wheel.

Here's how it works. Lets say you are going straight, the drivetrain is engaging both wheels. Now you turn left. Wheels in a turn must travel at different speeds due to different turing radius's. in an open differential when one wheel goes faster the other wheel must go slower. The drivetrain ends up powering the outer wheel since it's going faster, this helps turning since it's pushing you through the turn from the outside edge. If one wheel is on ice and spins though , no force is left for the other tire on the dry road, so you're stuck. So you're going straight in a parking lot at 15 mph on cruise control with an open differential. you turn. The outside wheel wants to go faster, the inside wheel wants to go slower. you end up with the outside wheel going at 16mph and the inside wheel going at 14 mph. Since you're powering the outside wheel, it assists in the turn, and it's easy to turn the steering wheel.

With a locker of any brand, the differential is set up to have both axles turn all the time. At the same time, it's set up to allow any wheel to go faster than the current rate of speed. Think of it as a large socket wrench. The rachet is designed to push in one direction and rachet back to push in the same direction again. That nut you're turning is actually able to turn faster than the rachet is turning, right? That's what a rear locker does. It forces both wheels to turn at least at the speed the gear is turning, but allows either wheel to turn faster than the gear at any point.
So you're going straight at 15 mph in a parking lot on cruise with a locker rear diff. You turn. The gear is going at 15mph, so no wheel can go slower than 15mph. Inside wheel is going to want to go slower than the outside wheel, but it's being powered at 15mph. That outside wheel is going to have to go at 17 mph, effectively freewheeling faster than the differential. The vehicle is being pushed from the inside wheel, not the outside wheel, so it takes a slightly higher effort to make the same turn. This is called understeer - the car will feel like it wants to resist the turn slightly. No big deal, just something you might notice.

Here's when it can get interesting. Let's say you have a lot of body roll, and the inside wheel, which is being powered slips. the truck slows down slightly, until that outside wheel speed drops to 15 mph. Then with a sudden thud, the outside wheel is the one being powered. you'll get a shift from understeer to regular steering. you inevitably slow down, the inside wheel catches, and you shift back to an understeer condition again.

This sounds horrible but it's not. The less aggressive you are with the gas pedal the less likely it is to happen and the less noticable it would be if it did happen. Just a slight change in driving habits makes it just fine. As I said, my wife never noticed it at all, even in bad weather, until i said something to her. It's all about driving style.
Hope this all helps!
--Bob

[CarFreak146]

Will do, hey Alec.... thanks for all your help, I can count on you for knowing your Stuff. You shoulda sold your X to me though.

[CarFreak146]

and Bored_2wd, what I just said about Alec..... goes to you too... Man you know your lockers. I think what I may do in go with an auto locker now... b/c I NEED a rear locker off-road for the stuff I'm doing now, and then when I swap in my 9" rear-end ( Someday ) I'll switch back to a selectable.

[Alec]

Where was your great offer?

Splat has disappeared, no one has seen it since it got sold on Ebay the last time.

[CarFreak146]

i think you sold it before I even joined the site..... I thought for the longest time that you still had it.

[RFR2212]

I haven't had problems in the snow with my lock right... If theres snow, I'm in 4x... and that's locked front and rear, and if ya follow normal snow driving rules, ya do fine. I have

[Alec]

It sold this summer.

[CarFreak146]

oh ok then, maybe not, I probably didn't even think about buying a new X at the time..... What's the difference betweent the regular D35 and the Reverse rotation D35 in the X's?? i'm guessing i juest spins the opposite direction, but do I need certain gears and lockers for the RR D35 or do i just get them for the regular D35??

[Bored_2wd]

Regular dana 35 gears are different from the reverse rotation dana 35 gears! I encountered this when I had gears changed. They couldn't get thegears anywhere close to correct, and then found out they were the wrong ones. The ones that came were not for the reverse rotation dana35. They sent them back and got the correct ones. Make sure you order the right ones!
--Bob

[GJarrett]

Originally posted by Alec
A properly installed selectable should be just as reliable as an autolocker.

I don't mean to tick off Rick and all of the ARB worshippers and others, but I disagree. It seems that almost every single time I have wheeled with others who have selectable lockers, at least one of them has a failure of some sort and doesn't work when needed, and most (if not all) were professionally installed. If it's not the airline it's the wiring or it's the compressor fitting or the cable or calibration or it's the etcetcetcetc. In Moab 2000 almost all of the ARBs grenaded, then ARB improved the design to fix that, so that part is okay. But later in Colorado at altitude on one run, none of the (improved ones) engaged on any of the vehicles that had them. I could go on and on. In Tellico MuddWhore travelled a thousand miles to wheel the tough trails and then couldn't get his OxTrack to engage once he arrived. Several times I've wheeled with various J**pers, all of whom swear how great their lockers are, and then watch them malfunction on the trail the very same day, mysteriously working again later on.

I prefer having one that I know works when I want it to.

[CarFreak146]

GJarrett. Thanks for your $.02. I will definietly keep that in mind when I go to buy.