Wolf's '93 Sport Getting A '94 'stang 5.0 and 4R70W '99 v8 X tranny

[Savage Wolf]

Pre-note, now that I have confused everyone with a name change, took me a while to find my real login seeing I forgot what it was in the 2 years since I had last used it but I'm back!... now on with the show...

Ok, in the first thread I started (link here soon as I figure out how..) I was taking suggestions on what to use for the swap, well, now my mind is made up... and here is whats on it


Engine: '94 5.0lt EFI mustang motor, w/ all accories around 70k miles on it, need to get more info from the person I'm getting it from
-going with the '94 due to the shorter front for the much needed space in the X

Wiring:
Motor: '93 mustang harness, EEC-IV -going this route because of the EEC-IV adapts to mods much better then the post '94 computers
-going to wire the harness myself, that way its wired the way I want it, and run underhood the way I want

Trans: Baumann Engineering TCS, this unit will stand alone control the Aod-E/4R70W trans, unit using some of the EEC wiring for data to control the shift points and thottle kick down
-I dont think anyone else has gone this route, so I'll keep everyone up to date on how it works out

Trans/T-Case:
Trans: 4R70W, brand new '99 5.0 Explorer Trans *will not bolt up to the B/W 1350 t-case* also I dont know what the length is yet, still wating on them, if this trans is way over/under 29" overall its out and I'll be going with a Aod-E and a AA tailshaft kit

T-Case: Seeing that the 4R70W will not bolt up the b/w 1350 T-Case with out adapter, I'm looking to go with a Atlas T-Case, yeah it cost alot, but I'm already putting in a better motor/trans... why stop there *1 (see foot note)

Swap Adapters/kits:
This is the only part I cant make up my mind on =) I like the look of the L&L mounts, might end up going with duff for some of the other stuff also, I'll figure this out in the next 2 weeks

Overview: *1 (see foot note)
Reasons I have for going this route with this swap..
Well... I have a few reasons for going electronic with the trans, I really like the idea of being able to set the shift points, converter lockup, turning the OD on/off with a button. As for the hard parts of the trans, its a newer model year, parts should be easyer to find, from what i have heard its one of the stronger ones also, the lower gearing is a big plus, thats less $$ I need to spend on regearing the front and rear diffs untill I go over 31" tires and it should give the truck better highway/road performance. The T-Case... Atlas II 3.8:1 that speaks for itself , few of the hidden advantages to the atlas t-case is I can pull the ford t-case control box out of my rear sail panel which would give enough room probably for a onboard air compressor....
More info and PICTURES! to follow (I would have pics of the duff 2.5" stage 2 install, but I didnt want to kill my digital cam)


FootNote!
*1- results may vary on a person to person basis

General Disclamer: Most info I have I have gathered in the last 2 weeks, most people wont agree with the Aod-E tranny, if ya dont like it, pay me way too much money and do the swap the way you think it should be done :p
All reasons and overview are my opinion, Please try not to spam this thread with flames

[Jason_25]

Sounds very cool!

The wiring for that is gonna be horrible though......

The gearing in the 4R70W is great! Ever drive a late model V8 explorer? Very well suited to the engine.

[jimbo74]

SWEET!!! WE WANT DETAILED PICS ALSO !!!!!!!!!

[Savage Wolf]

wiring is going to be the same as a normal v8 swap, the TCS is 5 wires to hook up to the EEC-IV, that should be easyer then wiring the '93 mustang harness to the '93 X harness...


Todays Task: Try to find out the length of the '99 X 4R70W trans + Atlas, I really hope its all going to fit with no drive line mods

[Speedfreak]

An AOD is 20 1/2" in length without a tailhousing, with the AA adapter and output shaft P/N 50-8404 the tranny is exactly the same length of an A4LD at 29 1/2". The AODEW (4R70W) is 7/8" longer because there is a clutch in the torque converter that makes the converter larger. This makes the 4R70W 21 3/8" long without a tailshaft and with the AA adapter 30 7/8" long. This means that the transfer case will be 7/8" farther back unless the engine is moved forward. This isn't good though because then you lose valuable clearance to the rad.

I agree with Jason, I think the 4R70W gear ratios are perfect for the 5.0L conversion. I used an AOD modified with 4R70W internals in my truck and I love the results. I was planning on regearing to 4.10 or 4.56 but now I think I will stay with my 3.73's.

[Savage Wolf]

well, I know the length on the bare aod/aod-e/4R70W...
but how long is the 4R70W out of a '99 v8 explorer? seeing it has a factory tailshaft for a X on it...
If I can save the $$ and not need a adapter I'll be set
and going with the tranny I found, if not its back to hunting for a aod-e plus a 4R70W core, and needing to buy the adapter and out goes the cash for the atlas then (got a insane deal on a brand new '99 4R70W)

[Speedfreak]

I don't know the length for sure but I can guess knowing a couple of facts:

1. The driveshafts used in the '96 Explorer 5.0L are the same as the '91 Explorer 4.0L.

2. The transmission case and transfer case used in the '96 X are exactly the same as all other years of 5.0L X's and Mountaineers.

From this I would say that the output shaft and the power take-off housing are shortened 7/8" to use the factory shafts and make the truck a little cheaper to produce. Of course in '97 the u-joints were dropped in favour of the cheaper CV style driveshafts.

[Savage Wolf]

Well, lift is mostly done on the front now, tossed a 33x12.50x15 on a stock rim and fit it, somehow I dont have much rub at all on the suspension I have no clue how I pulled that off
Note about the James Duff Kit I installed, I love it, looks great, strong.... BUT.... I had to modify alot of the parts to fit, grinding, bending and alittle fit trouble shooting but I really dont mind, they are mod parts so I wasnt expecting a OEM fit, I guess I have a weird X with a diffrent sized frame or something


33 vs 31 on stock rims


Modded druff radius arm flame cut washer to clear weld

[Savage Wolf]

I agree with Jason, I think the 4R70W gear ratios are perfect for the 5.0L conversion. I used an AOD modified with 4R70W internals in my truck and I love the results. I was planning on regearing to 4.10 or 4.56 but now I think I will stay with my 3.73's.

This is a good thing =) I was planning to go to 4.10 gears but now I think I will hold off and just pick up a front diff from the salvage yard to fix my front end =)
less money to spend is music to my ears, I'm more worryed about just getting the truck back on the road right now then getting everything 100% only short cut I'm taking is not bothing to fix my front end for a few more months and just going to leave the front drive shaft off untill I do get around to fixing it, and I want to get the motor and electrical 100% before I even think about taking the truck off road. hehe plus I get to try to figure out where I want to program my shift points at

what do you guys think? 3.73 gears with the 4R70W +33" tires should run alright? (for on-road performance, off road the 3.8:1 atlas should cover the gear diffrence)

[Savage Wolf]

Well, 33" are all on, looks great, some cutting is going to be needed when I put the motor in for them to clear all the way around though

[Speedfreak]

The truck looks good. This is how I came my decesion not to swap gears. A Mustang with 3.73's and a stock AOD has an overall(first 2.48 * final 3.73) gear ratio of 9.25 in first gear. My truck with 3.73's and the wide ratio gear set works out to be 10.59 overall in first. Now if you divide this by 2.48(the stock ratio) you get the equivelent final drive ratio of 4.27. But this is of course only in first and you still get perfect gearing at highway speeds because of the overdrive. You will cruise at a slightly lower RPM with the 5.0L as compared to the 4.0L but that will not affect power because the V8 makes way more bottom end torque than the V6.


Another nice thing is the crawl ration, your original crawl ratio is 2.47x2.48x3.73= 22.85:1 with A4LD in 1, transfercase in low and stock gearing. The 4R70W gearing will work out to 2.84x2.48x3.73=26.27:1. Not too bad of an increase.

[Savage Wolf]

Originally posted by Speedfreak
Another nice thing is the crawl ration, your original crawl ratio is 2.47x2.48x3.73= 22.85:1 with A4LD in 1, transfercase in low and stock gearing. The 4R70W gearing will work out to 2.84x2.48x3.73=26.27:1. Not too bad of an increase.

So with the Atlas 2 T-case I'll be running 2.84x3.8x3.73=40.25 crawl.... wow

Curent Status on Swap:
picking up my motor, '93 mustang harness and '93 manual EEC-IV this weekend I cant wait

More Pics also:
4.0 v6 motor

A4LD + T-Case

[Savage Wolf]

Well, I got my 5.0 for the swap, now the fun starts (first being how to get it out of the bed of the truck)
Note: most of the time when you buy a motor from someone it WILL NOT come like this, the person who pulled this, took time and thought in to unhooking everything that I could possibly need for my swap, Only one line on the whole motor was cut (one powersteering line) I also now have a '93 5.0 harness and manual tranny computer which I will be using for the swap (pics coming soon)

94/95 Mustang v8 with all the trimmings




Even got the starter

and the Mass Air/ Filter box


this was a nice supprise to open up and find

more Pics of the motor coming soon when I open it up some to see what it looks like in side

[asp84]

Well, you've got a complete engine. Note.......if you are planning to install a 1989-1993 EEC-IV computer system, the only thing you will need to swap is the distributor. (I used the same engine as you, and also installed a 89-93 EEC-IV computer system on it)
89-93 uses a TFI module that is attached to the distrib.
94-95 uses a remote mounted TFI

you'll need to find a distrib from an EFI stang 5.0

[Savage Wolf]

yes you are right, to use the '93 wiring you need the '93 distributor, but do you need the '93 coil also?
they guy I bought the motor from gave the option to trade any of the intake/ignition parts off for '93 so I did get a '93 distributor with it, in fact just got done reseting the timing what should the timing be set at btw, I have it set to 0 TDC right now

Project Status:
Cleaning and painting motor, all plugs unfouled, looked in each cylinder (through spark plug holes) and all look clean and oil leak free, motor has no leaks at all

[Speedfreak]

The coil is the same. The timing from factory is set to 10 degrees BTDC. You can move it to as high as 14 degrees for a little more power though.

[fatboy0186]

How hard is the wiring part of the project? I am planning to get a 5.0 for my '91 XLT, and it sounds like the wiring is the hardest part.

[Speedfreak]

I would consider the wiring the hardest part, simply because there are several different wiring options. Once you have the wiring that you feel will best siut your needs then you have to modify it to work with your truck. I have seen it done a couple of ways and have done it 2 different ways myself.

From my own experience I recommend finding a T-bird/Cougar wiring harness. I found this to be the easiest harness to modify for the conversion.


If you have done a conversion before then this part of the conversion is just time consuming and not really difficult.

[410Fortune]

One minor note if I may:

The L&L motor mounts are sweet! However they let the 5/0L sit lower on the frame, which can lead to clearance problems with the exhaust headers. Dont use the Duff long headers, they wont fit with any tranny other then the C-4 and they wont fit without the Duff motor mounts.

The Duff radiator is about the only good Duff conversion part "we" have seen, of course I have only seen one 5.0L HO go into a 93 X.

Oh and the upper intake on that HO can be flipped around to point over to the drivers side, you may find this works better with the underhood layout of your X. Some "minor" throttle cable bracket modifications/welding were needed to make it work.

Good luck and keep those pictures coming!!!!!

The wiring is "tricky" to say the least.....

[410Fortune]

Sorry forgot to add the Ford Motor Sport 5.0 Explorer headers are by far the best fit, they are very trick and if I was to drop a 5.0L into an X, Ranger, or BII I would not look at any other header, especially when price is considered.

Now the Y pipe is another story, my friend had to have a complete Y pipe custom made to clear his AOD with the "trick" FMS headers, so that can get expensive....true duals may help, but thats no good for off road if you ask me