Never towed before, have some questions

thebrakeman · April 7, 2014

Can't open that link.
Most vehicles will only allow towing something at max tow rating (in your case, 5000 lbs) if the truck is empty except for the driver. So for every lb of passenger or cargo you want to put in the Explorer, you need to subtract that from your tow rating.

A more accurate way to approach this is to look up (owners manual) your GCVWR (combined weight rating). This is the max combined loaded weight of both vehicles. Subtract from that the empty weight of the Explorer, and the weight of the driver and any passengers. What is left is the amount available for the LOADED trailer and any cargo in the back of the Explorer.

Another note about trailer weights. Lots of places will publish dry weights. I wouldn't call this a useless number, but it's close, since any factory or dealer options are in addition to a dry weight. A better number is the true empty or delivered weight, which should include all dealer options. Then you just have to add estimate for battery and propane. A good conservative rule of thumb is to add 1000 lbs over the dry weight, as an estimate of options and average cargo (clothing, food, etc). Don't use the trailer's GVWR, as these are usually much higher than anyone would actually use.

You mentioned being concerned about going into the mountains. This is a real concern, unless you have the RT with the V6-Ecoboost motor, which will counteract the effects of elevation on the motor. Most owners of this motor would have included that info in their post, so I'm assuming not for you.

And finally, you have the problem of trying to pull a barn door thru the wind.

For all of these reasons, I highly recommend you stay away from any full-height trailer, considering your intentions. there are some very nice "highwall" popup trailers with residential height counters and lots of storage in the 4000 lb (loaded) range.

thestrangebrew · April 7, 2014

thebrakeman said:
Can't open that link.
Most vehicles will only allow towing something at max tow rating (in your case, 5000 lbs) if the truck is empty except for the driver. So for every lb of passenger or cargo you want to put in the Explorer, you need to subtract that from your tow rating.

A more accurate way to approach this is to look up (owners manual) your GCVWR (combined weight rating). This is the max combined loaded weight of both vehicles. Subtract from that the empty weight of the Explorer, and the weight of the driver and any passengers. What is left is the amount available for the LOADED trailer and any cargo in the back of the Explorer.

Another note about trailer weights. Lots of places will publish dry weights. I wouldn't call this a useless number, but it's close, since any factory or dealer options are in addition to a dry weight. A better number is the true empty or delivered weight, which should include all dealer options. Then you just have to add estimate for battery and propane. A good conservative rule of thumb is to add 1000 lbs over the dry weight, as an estimate of options and average cargo (clothing, food, etc). Don't use the trailer's GVWR, as these are usually much higher than anyone would actually use.

You mentioned being concerned about going into the mountains. This is a real concern, unless you have the RT with the V6-Ecoboost motor, which will counteract the effects of elevation on the motor. Most owners of this motor would have included that info in their post, so I'm assuming not for you.

And finally, you have the problem of trying to pull a barn door thru the wind.

For all of these reasons, I highly recommend you stay away from any full-height trailer, considering your intentions. there are some very nice "highwall" popup trailers with residential height counters and lots of storage in the 4000 lb (loaded) range.

Sorry for the link. Here's the specs of the trailer (2014 Jay Feather SLX 16XRB):

Specification Description
Length 18'4"
Width 7'1"
Height 9'9"
Interior Height 6'6"
Hitch Weight 315 lbs
Dry Weight 2,575 lbs
Gross Weight 3,500 lbs
Cargo Weight 925 lbs
Fresh Water Capacity 26 gals
Grey Water Capacity 15 gals
Black Water Capacity 9 gals
Sleeps Up To 6
Interior Color Harvest

According to the manual, the GCWR is 9,980 lbs. (with a Class III) but I'm having trouble finding the vehicle's weight. The GVWR is 6160 lbs. (which is the total max weight for passengers/cargo, fluids etc.). Not sure if any of this info helps. And no, we don't have the ecoboost motor.

One thing I wanted to ask about popups. Say the popup weighs just as much as the Jayco we're looking at. The weights are equal, but does the popup have any other advantages aside from wind resistance? ie. Would a popup be easier to tow with my vehicle as opposed to the trailer going uphill or anything? I guess I'd get more horsepower since there's less drag (proper term?) Would this be significantly better? Thanks

thebrakeman · April 8, 2014

Popup benefits are ease-of-towing, due to wind resistance, and ease of storage. If your garage is long enough, you can store it at home. Wind resistance obviously becomes more of a factor the faster you move.

Weight-wise:
a. You have enough GCVWR (9980) to handle both vehicles at their GVWR (6160+3500=9660), which is fantastic.
b. Trailer has 925lbs of CCC, which is plenty. You'll want to get it weighed once loaded, just to be sure. But I suspect you can easily keep the trailer loaded to 3300.

This is probably doable, until you start considering the terrain you will cover. You are talking about using most of your combined rating. I'd say that's fine, until you consider the mountains (steep grades) and the wind resistance.

I recommend you keep poking around here and in the 5th gen section for people that have actually towed full-height trailers.

thestrangebrew · April 8, 2014

thebrakeman said:
Popup benefits are ease-of-towing, due to wind resistance, and ease of storage. If your garage is long enough, you can store it at home. Wind resistance obviously becomes more of a factor the faster you move.

Weight-wise:
a. You have enough GCVWR (9980) to handle both vehicles at their GVWR (6160+3500=9660), which is fantastic.
b. Trailer has 925lbs of CCC, which is plenty. You'll want to get it weighed once loaded, just to be sure. But I suspect you can easily keep the trailer loaded to 3300.

This is probably doable, until you start considering the terrain you will cover. You are talking about using most of your combined rating. I'd say that's fine, until you consider the mountains (steep grades) and the wind resistance.

I recommend you keep poking around here and in the 5th gen section for people that have actually towed full-height trailers.

Awesome thanks for the tips. Maybe I'll post in the 5th gen to see what others might be towing *safely* lol

thestrangebrew · April 10, 2014

thebrakeman said:
Popup benefits are ease-of-towing, due to wind resistance, and ease of storage. If your garage is long enough, you can store it at home. Wind resistance obviously becomes more of a factor the faster you move.

Weight-wise:
a. You have enough GCVWR (9980) to handle both vehicles at their GVWR (6160+3500=9660), which is fantastic.
b. Trailer has 925lbs of CCC, which is plenty. You'll want to get it weighed once loaded, just to be sure. But I suspect you can easily keep the trailer loaded to 3300.

This is probably doable, until you start considering the terrain you will cover. You are talking about using most of your combined rating. I'd say that's fine, until you consider the mountains (steep grades) and the wind resistance.

I recommend you keep poking around here and in the 5th gen section for people that have actually towed full-height trailers.

Ok so I've been doing some math and here is what I'm coming up with (all guesstimates at this point):

Curb weight of TV - 4557lbs (including 150lbs for driver)
Passengers (3 - not including driver) - ~450lbs
No cargo (wife said we will put all our gear in the trailer when towing which I'm totally skeptical about)

Weight of vehicle + passengers + 0 cargo = 5007 lbs

A lady on the Jayco forum is pulling the same trailer we're looking at with a Ford Edge with a WDH. She said her yellow sticker was 2832 lbs so I'll use that as a "baseline" (I'm aware it could have 0 options or we could get a totally different setup, but just for numbers sake I'll use it).

So dry weight - 2832 lbs
Trailer has 26gal fresh water capacity, but we don't use a whole lot of water and to keep things light, I fig. we would use about 10 gals over the course of a weekend. I'll go with 15lbs just to be safe.

Water @ 15 gals. = 8.33lbs/gal = 124.95 gals.

Propane & battery = 125 lbs(?)

Cargo (I have no idea what food/clothes will weigh and we generally use paper /plastic products) so I'd guess about 200 lbs

Weighted vehicle (dry weight + water +cargo) = 3281 lbs

TV + Weighter Trailer = 8288 lbs.

So, based on my numbers we're about 1692 lbs under the GCVWR or about 83% our GCVWR. Does this sound about right as to how I would figure out actual weights etc once we decide to get the trailer? @ 83%, would you still think I'd have a difficult time going up mountains?

Sorry for the long post!

thebrakeman · April 10, 2014

Yellow sticker is not the "dry" weight, but is the actual weight of that particular trailer as delivered to the dealer, which is a good number to have. But don't call it "dry" because that means something else in the industy.

Your 3281 loaded estimate is about 700 lbs over the true "dry" weight (2575). That's on the light end of things, but could happen, and should be considered the absolute minimum you might have in reality.

Will this still be OK going up significant grades or at highway speeds? Hopefully somebody with actual experience towing at 83% of the gen 5's capacity will chime in soon.

thestrangebrew · April 10, 2014

thebrakeman said:
Yellow sticker is not the "dry" weight, but is the actual weight of that particular trailer as delivered to the dealer, which is a good number to have. But don't call it "dry" because that means something else in the industy.

Your 3281 loaded estimate is about 700 lbs over the true "dry" weight (2575). That's on the light end of things, but could happen, and should be considered the absolute minimum you might have in reality.

Will this still be OK going up significant grades or at highway speeds? Hopefully somebody with actual experience towing at 83% of the gen 5's capacity will chime in soon.

Thanks for the tip on the "dry" weight. Terminology is def. important when trying to figure all this out.

Edit: deleted comment, misread your post.

keith_h · April 10, 2014

Just went through this with my 2001. I would double check the GCVWR ratings since you talk about going up into the mountains. For my older model the GCVWR is 10,000 lbs but has to be decreased by 200 lbs for each 1000 feet of elevation. This means I am limited to 9000 lbs if I go up and hang around 5000 feet here in NC. You should be able to find the information in the towing section of your owners manual. While I don't think it would make a big difference for occasional trips it definitely will if you plan to go to the mountains with regularity.

thestrangebrew · April 10, 2014

keith_h said:
Just went through this with my 2001. I would double check the GCVWR ratings since you talk about going up into the mountains. For my older model the GCVWR is 10,000 lbs but has to be decreased by 200 lbs for each 1000 feet of elevation. This means I am limited to 9000 lbs if I go up and hang around 5000 feet here in NC. You should be able to find the information in the towing section of your owners manual. While I don't think it would make a big difference for occasional trips it definitely will if you plan to go to the mountains with regularity.

Ughhhh. Thanks for pointing this out. After looking in the manual, I have the same req. Where we go camping, we're usually in the 6000ft area so that would be close to 1000lbs as well.

Never towed before, have some questions

thebrakeman

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thestrangebrew

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thebrakeman

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thestrangebrew

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