Another OHV M90 build

Dono · March 12, 2012

I think this should get my pulley off.
http://www.princessauto.com/pal/product/8046018/Pullers/4-in.-Dual-Jaw-Gear-Puller

jd4242 · March 12, 2012

Dono said:
Nice! That's awesome. I'd love to learn how to weld, and what welders are best to use in different situations. A mig welder sounds like its the most versatile. Easy also, a 220v plug and your good to go.

I'll be interested in how you make out with the tube bender. That will definitely take care of your issue with making the right angled bends coming off your M90. You should be able to make a perfect fit now.

The mig is a 110v i bought it like that so i can run it off my truck hopefully. I have an old arc and the new tig, actually my pops bought but both of those are 220.i still ordered and have madrell bent pipes,i stepped up to 3.25 thick wall but my benders can tweek them or bend exhaust pipe or roll cage(far away project)

rocket 5979 · March 12, 2012

Dono said:
I have no idea if the bearing is pressed in or not. I'm going to have to take it apart and see. I'd love to have the parts required first though.
I wonder if this is the right rebuild kit.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Eaton-M90-Su...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27c451cf27

http://spinningwheels-sc.com/eatonm90refresherkit.aspx

This is the kit I used. It is a small family company but the people are very polite and ship fast. Your kit is missing the rear main case bearings that support the rear of the rotors. I highly suggest that you get those too because they are usually the first to burn up. See the link below.

http://spinningwheels-sc.com/eatonm90needlebearings.aspx

Dono said:
I guess I'd have to take it to a machine shop to press the bearing on(And old one off), if a press is required. I will need a pully puller to get the pulley off. The pulley nut comes off easily, but a puller will be required to get the pulley off.

A press is required to get the bearings out of the snout and out of the rear case.

jd4242 said:
Haha yea its probably a press on.ive seen youtube vid of people doing it with a press but read it can damage the pulley or bearings when using a press.a special puleey is used to take it off and put it back on.also something i never heard rocket warn you about is those blades are synchronize and need to be kept together or put back in the same way,so if you pull the unit apart dont separate them.

The snout pulley on the Thunderbird SC Eaton M90's is press on. Just get that big 3 jaw puller like you mentioned and you will be fine. If you press slowly then you won't marr the stock pulley so you can reuse it.

Dono said:
Yes, on pulling the screws out, thats my concern. Im certain that if I manage to separate the screws (Gear even) I just made a boat anchor out of the blower. I just purchased the rebuild kit. So, I'll be doing some minor porting and polishing tot he m90 now. Nothing like Rocket, as I don't have the experience. I will smooth out the casting, and remove those two bolt castings to make that exit hole a bit larger.

Pulling the front bolts out is not an issue.and separating the three main sections of the blower is a breeze for anyone with a little common sense and a rubber mallet. The middle plate contains the synchronized gears with rotors attached and all pressed together. There is no way for them to just fall apart, lose timing, or otherwise separate so don't worry about that at all. Once you have it apart you will see what I am talking about and understand why taking this blower apart into its 3 main sections isn't hard at all. It may take some whacks with the mallet and prying with a flathead screwdriver but once you have them separated by about 1/8" you can just pull them apart. The snout housing will pop off pretty easily too. Try to be a little careful when pulling the middle bearing plate/rotor assembly out of the rear main case. You don't want the rotors banging into and scratching the inside of the case as you pull them out. Once that is out you can set it aside into a plastic bag. All of the rebuild or porting that you can do are in the rear main case and the snout itself.

Just a note going back to your original issue of having a leak after sitting. Chances are that you just needed to take the 3 sections apart, clean up the mating surfaces, reapply some anaerobic sealant, and bolt them back together. But it isn't a terrible idea to rebuild the blower since you will already have it apart so you know it will be fresh after install.

I keep a pretty large personal library of articles and publications, etc of different things including Eaton rebuild articles. If you PM me your email addy I can send you some of what I have so you don't feel like you are flying blind. Some searching around in the internet should yield good info on rebuilding these units too.

jd4242 · March 12, 2012

rocket 5979 said:
http://spinningwheels-sc.com/eatonm90refresherkit.aspx

This is the kit I used. It is a small family company but the people are very polite and ship fast. Your kit is missing the rear main case bearings that support the rear of the rotors. I highly suggest that you get those too because they are usually the first to burn up. See the link below.

http://spinningwheels-sc.com/eatonm90needlebearings.aspx

A press is required to get the bearings out of the snout and out of the rear case.

The snout pulley on the Thunderbird SC Eaton M90's is press on. Just get that big 3 jaw puller like you mentioned and you will be fine. If you press slowly then you won't marr the stock pulley so you can reuse it.

Pulling the front bolts out is not an issue.and separating the three main sections of the blower is a breeze for anyone with a little common sense and a rubber mallet. The middle plate contains the synchronized gears with rotors attached and all pressed together. There is no way for them to just fall apart, lose timing, or otherwise separate so don't worry about that at all. Once you have it apart you will see what I am talking about and understand why taking this blower apart into its 3 main sections isn't hard at all. It may take some whacks with the mallet and prying with a flathead screwdriver but once you have them separated by about 1/8" you can just pull them apart. The snout housing will pop off pretty easily too. Try to be a little careful when pulling the middle bearing plate/rotor assembly out of the rear main case. You don't want the rotors banging into and scratching the inside of the case as you pull them out. Once that is out you can set it aside into a plastic bag. All of the rebuild or porting that you can do are in the rear main case and the snout itself.

Just a note going back to your original issue of having a leak after sitting. Chances are that you just needed to take the 3 sections apart, clean up the mating surfaces, reapply some anaerobic sealant, and bolt them back together. But it isn't a terrible idea to rebuild the blower since you will already have it apart so you know it will be fresh after install.

I keep a pretty large personal library of articles and publications, etc of different things including Eaton rebuild articles. If you PM me your email addy I can send you some of what I have so you don't feel like you are flying blind. Some searching around in the internet should yield good info on rebuilding these units too.

Not to change the subject but on a side note about porting.you remember you said you dont know why they removed that bar on the bottom of my unit when they port it it?well found out why,they remove it for use on intercoolers,they said it allows more air flow through more suface of the cooler.they also suggest you open the inlet on your lower intake manifold to match the rectangle of the IC instead of the little square thats the size of the sc outlet.they said it made a significant decrease in temperature .i googled it and seem alot of people are split about removing it but half wasnt running a IC or half didnt enlarge there lower manifold.so im having it removed and going back and matching my LIM to my IC

jd4242 · March 12, 2012

jd4242 said:
Not to change the subject but on a side note about porting.you remember you said you dont know why they removed that bar on the bottom of my unit when they port it it?well found out why,they remove it for use on intercoolers,they said it allows more air flow through more suface of the cooler.they also suggest you open the inlet on your lower intake manifold to match the rectangle of the IC instead of the little square thats the size of the sc outlet.they said it made a significant decrease in temperature .i googled it and seem alot of people are split about removing it but half wasnt running a IC or half didnt enlarge there lower manifold.so im having it removed and going back and matching my IC to my LIM

Just went back and saw this post

jd4242 said:
maybe its just the pic or im use to 3800 m90dont get me wrong not saying you over did it or anything like, that just saying it looks big compared to my 3800
YOURS

MINE

So looks like this was irrelevant to your chargers so that IC core from ZZ may be too larger for you all.

Dono · March 12, 2012

jd4242 said:
Just went back and saw this post

So looks like this was irrelevant to your chargers so that IC core from ZZ may be too larger for you all.

An intercooler will be very difficult for me to adapt to my current lower intake setup. Im going to try with no intercooler and see how I make out.

I'm hoping that with a bit of porting, and using a egr system, I can keep temps low enough for low to moderate boost levels to be ok. Hopefully James can tune around the higher temps.

Dono · March 12, 2012

Rocket, whats a bearing press look like. Could I get one at a reasonable price that would work for the M90?

oops....looks like a hydraulic floor press is needed.

rocket 5979 · March 12, 2012

jd4242 said:
Not to change the subject but on a side note about porting.you remember you said you dont know why they removed that bar on the bottom of my unit when they port it it?well found out why,they remove it for use on intercoolers,they said it allows more air flow through more suface of the cooler.they also suggest you open the inlet on your lower intake manifold to match the rectangle of the IC instead of the little square thats the size of the sc outlet.they said it made a significant decrease in temperature .i googled it and seem alot of people are split about removing it but half wasnt running a IC or half didnt enlarge there lower manifold.so im having it removed and going back and matching my LIM to my IC

That makes allot of sense since they are doing an aftermarket AWIC system with the blower.

rocket 5979 · March 12, 2012

jd4242 said:
Just went back and saw this post

So looks like this was irrelevant to your chargers so that IC core from ZZ may be too larger for you all.

There are ways to work around using a larger than needed core. Now if it were too small then that may pose an issue but a quick call to ZZP will yield those dimensions. If it is not wide enough then that Bell Intercoolers core will work for sure once some end tanks are welded or brazed on.

rocket 5979 · March 12, 2012

Dono said:
Rocket, whats a bearing press look like. Could I get one at a reasonable price that would work for the M90?

oops....looks like a hydraulic floor press is needed.

A 2 ton arbor press may work for pressing strength but the particular one I have isn't deep enough to accommodate the rear main case. A regular hydraulic press in the 12ton+ range will be physically large enough to fit the blower case.

jd4242 · March 12, 2012

rocket 5979 said:
There are ways to work around using a larger than needed core. Now if it were too small then that may pose an issue but a quick call to ZZP will yield those dimensions. If it is not wide enough then that Bell Intercoolers core will work for sure once some end tanks are welded or brazed on.

I can give you a ruff measurements if you cant get ahold of them.there pretty good on customer service tho

rocket 5979 · March 12, 2012

jd4242 said:
I can give you a ruff measurements if you cant get ahold of them.there pretty good on customer service tho

When I get closer to doing the project I will start making calls and gathering more parts info. For now my focus is on building the new fuel system for my Pontiac G8. After I get it buttoned up and have retuned it then I can daily drive that and bring the X down for the S/C project.

jd4242 · March 12, 2012

Dono said:
Rocket, whats a bearing press look like. Could I get one at a reasonable price that would work for the M90?

oops....looks like a hydraulic floor press is needed.

Search YouTube, there is vid showing how and what is needed to rebuild them

Dono · March 13, 2012

Thanks guys, It does look like the only way to rebuild the snout is to use a hydraulic press. I found one for $160.00

I bet it would cost me that in labor to have someone else do it. Figures. If only I could find someone that had one I could borrow.

I would not feel comfortable attempting to bang these bearings out with sockets and a hammer. Blowers are high speed units, and any bearing damage at all would be a very bad thing.

jd4242 · March 13, 2012

Dono said:
Thanks guys, It does look like the only way to rebuild the snout is to use a hydraulic press. I found one for $160.00

I bet it would cost me that in labor to have someone else do it. Figures. If only I could find someone that had one I could borrow.

I would not feel comfortable attempting to bang these bearings out with sockets and a hammer. Blowers are high speed units, and any bearing damage at all would be a very bad thing.

Yea a press is the last thing i need to get for my home shop,have one at work tho.and GOD no i wouldnt even consider the hammer approach

Dono · March 13, 2012

So, 12 ton for $159.95 or 20 ton for $199.95

I just can't see ever needing the 20 ton. Specially since I have made it all my life without a press anyway.

The $160.00 is smaller also, and that's a bonus as the garage fills up with my 'stuff'.

Dono · March 13, 2012

Rocket, how do I replace rear main case bearings?
Any info I see is on the gen 5, and it looks like some drilling and tapping, then using a grease gun to push the bearings out. Is that the way our older ones are done?

And, yes, I might have gotten away with separating the parts, and resealing but I'd have to order the oil anyway. What the heck, If I don't do something, It will probably be the weak link.

rocket 5979 · March 13, 2012

Dono said:
Rocket, how do I replace rear main case bearings?
Any info I see is on the gen 5, and it looks like some drilling and tapping, then using a grease gun to push the bearings out. Is that the way our older ones are done?

Those instructions are for the GM 3800 series Eaton M90's which are quite different from our M90 blowers from the Thunderbirds. Our bearings press out of the main case with a hydraulic press.

Dono · March 13, 2012

I took the M90 apart tonight, and found the reason for the oil leak....No sealant was used when the snout went together. There wasn't much oil in there (Maybe 3-4 ounces).
Also, the oil had no smell. Its not the same smelly stuff I hear people talk about. Maybe the bearings are still good...Maybe not. Theres a few strikes against them based on what I found.

I still think its best practice to rebuild though. No telling what other surprises there are. I might pack up the rebuild kit (Minus the oil), snout, and bearings for shipment to Rocket. I think cost of shipping will be lower with the blades removed, and packed in a smaller box.

jd4242 · March 13, 2012

Dono said:
I took the M90 apart tonight, and found the reason for the oil leak....No sealant was used when the snout went together. There wasn't much oil in there (Maybe 3-4 ounces).
Also, the oil had no smell. Its not the same smelly stuff I hear people talk about. Maybe the bearings are still good...Maybe not. Theres a few strikes against them based on what I found.

I still think its best practice to rebuild though. No telling what other surprises there are. I might pack up the rebuild kit (Minus the oil), snout, and bearings for shipment to Rocket. I think cost of shipping will be lower with the blades removed, and packed in a smaller box.

awww taken the easy way out,i assume you are having him do the porting also

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