$2000 to fix A/C???

Private_Joker · June 9, 2004

Please shed some reality on this situation.

I have a 93 sport. The A/C uses R12 but hasn't been used in about 2 years (ie - I took the belt off the compressor).

I called a dealer here who said:
1. Converting to r-134a is really expensive
2. They 'would' do some freon conversion instead (not f-12).
3. They guy said that because the compressor has not turned over for awhile, seals etc may have deteriorated because oils that are circulated when the compressor is running have not be doing so...
4. They wanted $200 just to look at it.
5. And, that I would probably find out it would cost $2000 to fix it.

I've seen 93 explorers for sale for less that $2000!

ok, I'm in Canada and I know with the exchange etc things are more $, but $2000!!...seems rediculous to me. :roll:

What do youz think? Are theses estimates insane or sane?

Thanks,
PJ

Positive Vibes · June 9, 2004

Yes very insane prices. Go to another shop and see what they say. I had to replace my compressor and have it charged with the new RF??? and it was around $580 if I remember right.

hermitrl · June 9, 2004

I feel your pain. There are a couple of recent posts discussing recharging your system. I just recharged my 92 with Duracool--located in Canada? Bought 2 cans and a can of sealer. It cost 85 bucks and my air is finally cold. This Duracool is enviromentally friendly---I guess thats how they can sell it. Glacier is the guru here on AC I think---so search out his posts and read his info. I was out for a cheap fix--if it worked great---if not disconnect it and forget it. If you want to do the same--maybe check this stuff out. It's compatible with all systems supposedly. You may get the summer out of it----or it may blow up. I drove 300 klicks today and it actually frosted the windshield at slower speeds. There is a website--just do a search.

F14CRAZY · June 9, 2004

Ah, gotta love my dad for buying a surplus of R12 cans right before it was outlawed :thumbsup:

I got mine recharged yesterday at a local mechanic. I supplied the can. He charged me 12 cans, that is, of Coke.

Toy_to_Force · June 9, 2004

Those prices are insane. You can practically buy an entire system new for that. I just replaced my dryer, evaporator, evaporator line and orifice tube, 3 cans of r134a and a can of recharge for oil loss. All spent about $320. The only thing left is compressor and condensor. Big ticket items but not $1500 worth. Of course I did this with my brothers help "he's the mech."
I second, get a second opinion. Converting to r134a only involves two fittings and a recharge.

Private_Joker · June 9, 2004

now a $2500 estimate...

Ok, now this is gett'n more rediculous..

I went to another place. They said my compressor is seized & that if I wanted it fixed I've have to replace everything and the job would 'start' at $1000 and go up to probably $2500.

They charge $50 just to take a look at it - the mechanic let me off without even paying for the check...

Now - What the &$)# is going on here?

Is it not possible for me to get A/C fixed for a normal price?
2 grande is just silly.

Are refurb compressors $1000? I thought I saw an article with info on a refurb for like 300 USD!..

How can A/C repair cost more than the vehicle.. even a 93!...

Anyone have any ideas? or do I have to scrap the vehicle...

Glacier991 · June 9, 2004

Now you'll have to do the conversion to Canadian $$. Let's assume your compressor is crumped. New compressor $250. easy DIY. SHOULD replace the accumulator. $60. I'll recommend you first remove and check the orifice tube, to see if your compressor died the "black death". (black crud and metal filings clogging the O-Tube screen - I'll post a pic of a new one in a min) If it did, you have a slight different problem on your hands. If not, make your replacements and then take it to the shop to evacuate and recharge with 134 and add PAG or Ester oil. So, if you want to know, my advice is open up and check the O-tube first.

O-tubes come in about or 6 main flavors...in an assotment they are really inexpensive...

A single one for the Ford looks like this.... see the screen ? Check to see if it has collected black stuff and/or metal shavings...

Private_Joker · June 9, 2004

Thank you for the info..
Is that $250 somewhere in the US? I'll have to see what they are here or getting one shipped!

I'll check out what you state here.

Thanks a million for the info and pictures. I'm ok with jobs but I don't know squat about A/C & can't afford to scrap it...(the truck)

I'll see if it died the "black death" and post my findings..

Thanks once again..

Glacier991 said:
Now you'll have to do the conversion to Canadian $$. Let's assume your compressor is crumped. New compressor $250. easy DIY. SHOULD replace the accumulator. $60. I'll recommend you first remove and check the orifice tube, to see if your compressor died the "black death". (black crud and metal filings clogging the O-Tube screen - I'll post a pic of a new one in a min) If it did, you have a slight different problem on your hands. If not, make your replacements and then take it to the shop to evacuate and recharge with 134 and add PAG or Ester oil. So, if you want to know, my advice is open up and check the O-tube first.

O-tubes come in about or 6 main flavors...in an assotment they are really inexpensive...

A single one for the Ford looks like this.... see the screen ? Check to see if it has collected black stuff and/or metal shavings...

V8BoatBuilder · June 9, 2004

Just to add, to get to the orifice tube you will need some special tools.

- A/C line disconnects. They're plastic rings that fit into the line couplers. A set of them runs about $10.
-Orifice tube extractor. Around me, you can rent them free from Autozone. I don't think they're more than $30 to buy. Be careful getting it out, if the o-tube shatters, you're up the creek.

Always wear eye protection around freon, one shot can cause blindness.

Test to make sure the system is empty of gas before opening the line. NEVER crack the link on a charged system! Press down on the low side valve with a pen or screwdriver to see if pressure escapes.

hermitrl · June 9, 2004

Joker--are you SURE the compressor is seized? With the engine off---grab the clutch part of the pulley and see if you can turn it or not. If you can move it--I doubt it is seized. I heard every story from 3 different shops. One told me my compressor would explode if I charged it with the cans of stuff I had. Check it out and make sure before spending big bucks.

Clatterman · June 9, 2004

The old R12 is still available, it's just not manufactured any more. The going price in LA is $65/lb.

Glacier991 · June 10, 2004

Actually a 20# jug is still around $800 US. My jug is still virgin practically..... and stored in a safe ! <g> kidding.

Good advice V8! Thanks. I'll post some pics of the tool

Ok... here is the main tool (center) a valve (bottom) and the when all else fails extraction part of the tool.. (top)....

With the system discharged and the orifice tube section apart, you slide the tool into the tube to capture the val;ve... they mate like so....

and then with a twist you hook the ears... like thus....

Often you can just pull it out, if not you can rotate the collar to make the tool an extractor. If you break the valve, you change to the top tool, which screws into the tube remains to pull it out.

And V8 is right... properly discharge the system, goggles are always a good insurance policy too.

Also, rotating a clutch is no proof of anything. Absent 12V the clutch will not be engaged and should rotate freely, even on a siezed compressor. You need to find a way to try and rotate the center shaft where it comes through the clutch. THAT is what you want to see if it turns or not.

hermitrl · June 10, 2004

Mine must be different then--the clutch engages the outer pulley when electrified. I can turn the clutch with my hand--which engages the compressor. If you put the flat of your hand against the front of the compressor and can turn the center of the clutch--the compressor is not seized. :can:

Private_Joker · June 10, 2004

Once Again, Thanks a million for everyone's comments & help!

I just have a couple of questions:

1. Testing to see if any R12 left:
To test if the system is pressurized with any R12, do I:
"Press down on the low side valve with a pen or screwdriver to see if pressure escapes" (thanks V8)
While.. wearing eye gear?

If I find there is no pressure, is the system now 'safe' to work with? (I doubt there is any left).

Or do I really have to go to a shop and ask them to discharge whatever R12 may be there?
I'm asking cuz R12 is now illegal in Canada period - at least that's my understanding. :can:

= NO R12!

2. Refurbished or Junk Yard compressors?:
What about refurbished compressors or compressors from a junk yard?
Would a refurb work ok? Not worth the risk of it not working?

3. Hayes book on air conditioning and heating systems?:
In the Hayes Ex book (for 93), it mentions another Hayes book specifically about air conditioning and heating systems.
Is this book worth tracking down?

I try to rotate the compressor and see what happens...

I'll try to get these tools tonight & look for the 'black death'
Thanks everyone! I'll post as soon as I can find the tools.

Glacier991 · June 10, 2004

Forget a junkyard compressor. High probability of failure, unknown history. es test just as you said... if there is nothing when you press in the valve it's ok to open it up. It was late and I should have read more closely the post on turning the compressor. I was thinking it was telling you to rotate the pulley portion. he inner part connected to the shaft, if you can rotate that you are rotating the compressor. The Haynes book won't be of much use, it's a little dated. Good book overall, just not likely to give you much specific info here.

hermitrl · June 10, 2004

Hi Joker. I think you are in the same boat as myself. You have a beater of a truck worth 2 grand maybe if you are lucky? Call the parts shops and ask if they sell air conditioning sealer. 65 bucks here--but comes with the hose kit to charge the system. Buy a can of the sealer---and 3 cans of recharge. The stuff I got is compatible with all systems--so it says. DURACOOL. Your system is probably empty--so a full charge of this stuff should be fine. The only other "snag" may be the low side fitting does not fit the hose fitting. Remove it with a box end wrench---any refrigerant should still stay in as the shraeder valve is below this fitting. Take it to the parts shop with the hose and buy a proper size fitting. Put it on the low side and start the truck. Hook up the hose and peirce the can by turning in the valve. Then back it off. You either should hear the stuff rushing out or the can will get cold. The compressor should kick in after a can of stuff goes in. If it does--put the sealer in the same way. Then let it run a bit. It will cycle on and off ever couple of seconds. Next--put the last can in. The compressor should run longer now and the air should be cool. I lost a bit of refrigerant before the sealer filled the leak--so I put a third can in the next day.

I know this is not the "correct" way to repair your system. But:
1: This is Ontario----land of salt and rusty vehicles. You probably only want the summer out of the truck.
2: Repairing the system with new or used parts WILL cost you at least a grand.
3:A shop in Toronto must charge at least 75/hr.
4: If the procedure I descibe works---it will save you at least 975 dollars.
5: If it does not work---it cost you 85 plus 7 for a fitting to know for sure you want to spend a grand on a 2 grand vehicle for a system that you may use for 3 months this year.

It's up to you the route you want to take----I just hate to see you spend all that money if it can be avoided. I now have 600kms on the air and still pumping cold--but not very warm out today anyways.
If you decide to try this route let me know and I wil be glad to help.

Private_Joker · June 10, 2004

I have not been able to find these tools yet (kindly mentioned & shown above by Glacier & V8 et al.).

re: Duracool (hermitrl)
Sounds like a great product. I spoke to a local shop that uses it and they tried to tell me it doesn't come in refill cans...
In other words - they do appointments only where they charge you to tell you how much more they are going to charge you to fix your A/C... :banghead:

I was unable to rotate my compressor by hand (the inner portion of the pulley).

1. Does this mean my compressor is history? (probably).
2. If the compressor is history, is it worth gett'n the O-tube remover & other tools? or should I just try to get a compressor?
3. Do you think its fixable at all?
3.5 Is there a Demon in my compressor I could exorcize to make it work again?
4. Does anyone know where to get a compressor in Canada (Toronto) or close by?...

You help above is much appreciated.

PJ :roll:

V8BoatBuilder · June 10, 2004

If you cannot rotate the inner portion of the compressor clutch, then you have bigger problems. Your compressor is seized, and thats why the shop quotes are so high. They are assuming black death.

Here's something to try. Breifly (a few seconds max) apply 12v to the compressor clutch with the truck at idle. If the truck stalls, the belt slips or smokes, then the compressor is definitley toast.

At best, the compressor is seized and you can get away with a new compressor, a new o-tube, and a new accumulator. At worst, you'll need the above plus lots of flushing and some other hard parts. $$$. Sorry

.

You CAN replace all of these components at home, and have a shop evac and charge. That's the cheapist solution, but you'll need to find tools, parts, etc.

Private_Joker · June 10, 2004

hermitrl,

I think you are correct that we are generally in the same boat, except your 'boat' has A/C!.. :chug:

My beater isn't that bad now, but be prepared to do major bondo if you take off your tupperware (under the doors), I did it just last week and there were holes big enough to throw cats through..
Luckily? - I have a long history of bondo experience so I can fix body work problems.

I just have the usual problems for first gens: :roll:
- A/C, MAF, Water com'n in through sunroof, radio HU dead, snapping plastic panels, elbow rest busted, cat hoops under tupperware (hoops for cats to jump through).., fixed tranny, rotors, leather start'n to go,...
- I'm work'n on all of these.

OK, maybe it is bad?..

Thank you for all the info on Duracool. I think its a great product... but if my compressor is seized, I gotta solve that first, I guess..

hermitrl said:
Hi Joker. I think you are in the same boat as myself. You have a beater of a truck worth 2 grand maybe if you are lucky? Call the parts shops and ask if they sell air conditioning sealer. 65 bucks here--but comes with the hose kit to charge the system. Buy a can of the sealer---and 3 cans of recharge. The stuff I got is compatible with all systems--so it says. DURACOOL. Your system is probably empty--so a full charge of this stuff should be fine. The only other "snag" may be the low side fitting does not fit the hose fitting. Remove it with a box end wrench---any refrigerant should still stay in as the shraeder valve is below this fitting. Take it to the parts shop with the hose and buy a proper size fitting. Put it on the low side and start the truck. Hook up the hose and peirce the can by turning in the valve. Then back it off. You either should hear the stuff rushing out or the can will get cold. The compressor should kick in after a can of stuff goes in. If it does--put the sealer in the same way. Then let it run a bit. It will cycle on and off ever couple of seconds. Next--put the last can in. The compressor should run longer now and the air should be cool. I lost a bit of refrigerant before the sealer filled the leak--so I put a third can in the next day.

I know this is not the "correct" way to repair your system. But:
1: This is Ontario----land of salt and rusty vehicles. You probably only want the summer out of the truck.
2: Repairing the system with new or used parts WILL cost you at least a grand.
3:A shop in Toronto must charge at least 75/hr.
4: If the procedure I descibe works---it will save you at least 975 dollars.
5: If it does not work---it cost you 85 plus 7 for a fitting to know for sure you want to spend a grand on a 2 grand vehicle for a system that you may use for 3 months this year.

It's up to you the route you want to take----I just hate to see you spend all that money if it can be avoided. I now have 600kms on the air and still pumping cold--but not very warm out today anyways.
If you decide to try this route let me know and I wil be glad to help.

Private_Joker · June 10, 2004

Thanks for your advice V8, I'll try that soon!

BTW, what is "black death"? and why is it so feared and/or imply hardship and overall bad luck?

V8BoatBuilder said:
If you cannot rotate the inner portion of the compressor clutch, then you have bigger problems. Your compressor is seized, and thats why the shop quotes are so high. They are assuming black death.

Here's something to try. Breifly (a few seconds max) apply 12v to the compressor clutch with the truck at idle. If the truck stalls, the belt slips or smokes, then the compressor is definitley toast.

At best, the compressor is seized and you can get away with a new compressor, a new o-tube, and a new accumulator. At worst, you'll need the above plus lots of flushing and some other hard parts. $$$. Sorry .

You CAN replace all of these components at home, and have a shop evac and charge. That's the cheapist solution, but you'll need to find tools, parts, etc.

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