a4ld flares into neutral erratically, '91 Expl 4X4 hi miles

thebadj · 11-27-2005, 05:28 PM

91 Expl Ranger XLT, 280K plus mi. 30-40K on last rebuild. It can go into 'surprise' neutral in these situations: cold, hard acceln onto fwy; hot, cruising evenly; starting up warm, hitting passing gear. It engages in these conditions as follows: backing off hard accel'n; playing with fwd/reverse, neutral d or r; foot off accel'ror. It's never left me unable to get going, it just makes it iffy or exciting (yeah, right). Sometimes I just have to roll to a stop at curb/shoulder and play with it 'til it engages. I'd like to make it safer to share with my spouse. The last thing I did 8 mos or so ago was drop the valve body to fix a loose detent 'rooster comb'. That went fine, using new gaskets. (This forum was just what I needed.)But this was happening before that, and it has gotten worse, mainly surprise going into neutral while in a 20-30mph cruise. Any ideas? I'm about to scrap it, but might keep it as a back-up. Diminished value makes shop repair out of Q. Any ideas? Thanks.

Glacier991 · 12-01-2005, 12:41 AM

This is one of the more difficult problems I have encountered. There are many possibilities.....yet your symptoms are so varied.

That said let's explore. No shift can often be pressure related. Low fluid, bad pump, a component that leaks like crazy affecting line pressure, etc. I wish you could hook up a pressure gauge and drive it a while and see what your pressures do when this happens. THAT would help a lot.

Governor. Used a lot in shift timing on the 1st Gens. It could be sticky. It rarely gets the attention it needs in rebuilds.

Valve body bolts... improper torque, cross leaks. Again your range of symptoms does not favor this.

I wish I could give you more..... the pressures would be golden. All in all I am betting on the valve body somehow.

ps. each symptom also has a mechanical failure explaination, but those don't fit because they would be constant. Eg a glazed drum or bad band doesn't fix itself.

BigOne · 12-01-2005, 01:11 AM

On any of the rebuilds was the shifter arm that runs through the trans housing trued up by putting a bushing in the hole?

The wear at this location can cause the arm to move around and when you put it in gear you don't really get it in gear as some of the linkage movement is lost in the twisting of the shaft in the hole. This could give you your surprise neutral, since as you say playing around with the shift lever can get it to go back in.

You should be able to easily crawl under and reach the shaft and see if you have a bunch of play.

When mine was rebuilt a few months back I had minimal play but told them to do the bushing anyways to get it back to "new" condition. Apparently once the bushing is done, it should last for quite some time as it is harder than the aluminum of the case the steel shaft normally runs through. Also being self lubricating bronze it isn't a "dry" fit.

As the aluminum and steel expand and contract at different rates, the temperature could play a factor here.

Good luck.

Glacier991 · 12-01-2005, 02:00 AM

Well.... with all due respect....the issue on boring and bushing is leakage here, not shift changes. The small difference (.020 or so in the diameter pre and post) is not likely to change the manual lever position enough to alter the shift.

BigOne · 12-01-2005, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glacier991

Well.... with all due respect....the issue on boring and bushing is leakage here, not shift changes. The small difference (.020 or so in the diameter pre and post) is not likely to change the manual lever position enough to alter the shift.

True it isn't likely enough to alter a shift. However, and according to the shop we send all our transmissions to, it can cause if extremely worn, the transmission not to be fully engaged in the location noted on the shifter.

As in your lever is locked in "O" (overdrive) yet your transmission is not fully engaged in that position, which can allow it, under certain conditions to slip out of gear into neutral.

As I said before, I don't work on automatics, so that is why I called them and asked them.

Glacier991 · 12-01-2005, 08:43 PM

Point taken. No offense meant. In the A4LD's I have seen I just could not imagine enough play there (at the bore for the shifter to enter the case) to alter location of the manual valve significantly - which is where it needs to happen to alter the shift. Now... the manual valve Z link hole.. I have seen some very ovalled out... and that is right IN LINE with the movement, not at right angles to it.

thebadj · 12-10-2005, 10:00 PM

Thanks for all those comments. Probably the most common problem in this is the simple failure to engage, hot or cold, when started. All the shift positions seem to respond accurately during normal operation: no confusion between gears. It's just that it has to sometimes be coaxed by shifting gears back and forth or, underway, light revving. And sometimes from a standstill, it'll give a little power nudge but not fully engage. I never over-rev it. And it's not leaking from the shift shaft. A rebuild ago, I had that re-sealed. Do not know if it was re-bushed, but when I did remove bottom end for a shift detent problem, the shaft seemed fine, tight. Sometimes this will happen on slow, like 1--15 mph in gentle cruise in neighborhood. I can get it back in by gently revving, I mean real gently, not more than a two-three 100 rpm. When it does engage, it's not a hard clunk, but I can usually feel it. Once engaged, it feels normal without slippage. It's pretty much a black/white situation.

Glacier991 · 12-10-2005, 10:45 PM

Part of what you are describing fits a "low fluid" situation almost perfecftly. Now low fluid equates to low pressure, so first Q, are you sure the fluid is full?

BigOne · 12-12-2005, 12:03 AM

Yes, as you describe it in your last post it does sound like low fluid/pressure as opposed to anything else.

thebadj · 01-07-2006, 08:56 PM

Thanks to all of you. I know it's not mechanical. I went thru that not long ago and not leaking there. God Bless her old carcass: 285K mi and still going. Not smoking; passes emissions. But that trans can always be coaxed into gear: cold, first run: playing with shift lever thru and back thru detents. And it will almost never take full throttle on-ramp acceleration cold without flaring. And once hot, it'll surprise me, mainly at very low speed. If it flares at cruise, it's alway 10-25 mph w/o throttle load. It's almost like if you back off gas, 1 in a 50-100 times, it'll flare and go back 'in' doing nothing...it just let's you know with a clunk and off I go.

**BrooklynBay** · 01-07-2006, 09:09 PM

If you do decide to open the valve body again, I would recommend a $20 upgrade to the manual slide that the Z linkage goes into. It's an upgraded shaft that prevents a situation where there is still some apply in the park position. This lever has the hole for the Z link in a slightly diferent place. It helps make a more positive engagement in the correct gear setting.

Glacier991 · 01-07-2006, 11:49 PM

I'm gonna guess that a rebuilt A4LD valve body from something "younger" and a replacement of the governor would in all liklihood solve these problems.

11-27-2005, 05:28 PM	#1
thebadj Wannabe Elite Explorer Greater Houston Area '91 Exporer XLT 4X4 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 11 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	a4ld flares into neutral erratically, '91 Expl 4X4 hi miles 91 Expl Ranger XLT, 280K plus mi. 30-40K on last rebuild. It can go into 'surprise' neutral in these situations: cold, hard acceln onto fwy; hot, cruising evenly; starting up warm, hitting passing gear. It engages in these conditions as follows: backing off hard accel'n; playing with fwd/reverse, neutral d or r; foot off accel'ror. It's never left me unable to get going, it just makes it iffy or exciting (yeah, right). Sometimes I just have to roll to a stop at curb/shoulder and play with it 'til it engages. I'd like to make it safer to share with my spouse. The last thing I did 8 mos or so ago was drop the valve body to fix a loose detent 'rooster comb'. That went fine, using new gaskets. (This forum was just what I needed.)But this was happening before that, and it has gotten worse, mainly surprise going into neutral while in a 20-30mph cruise. Any ideas? I'm about to scrap it, but might keep it as a back-up. Diminished value makes shop repair out of Q. Any ideas? Thanks.

12-01-2005, 01:11 AM	#3
BigOne Wannabe Elite Explorer Vancouver Island '94 XLT Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 96 Vehicle Specs	On any of the rebuilds was the shifter arm that runs through the trans housing trued up by putting a bushing in the hole? The wear at this location can cause the arm to move around and when you put it in gear you don't really get it in gear as some of the linkage movement is lost in the twisting of the shaft in the hole. This could give you your surprise neutral, since as you say playing around with the shift lever can get it to go back in. You should be able to easily crawl under and reach the shaft and see if you have a bunch of play. When mine was rebuilt a few months back I had minimal play but told them to do the bushing anyways to get it back to "new" condition. Apparently once the bushing is done, it should last for quite some time as it is harder than the aluminum of the case the steel shaft normally runs through. Also being self lubricating bronze it isn't a "dry" fit. As the aluminum and steel expand and contract at different rates, the temperature could play a factor here. Good luck. __________________ '94 Explorer XLT, 4x4, 4dr, auto, V6, factory sun roof, factory running boards, Ford hood deflector, dual power cloth seats, grey interior. Purchased used February 20, 2002 with 138,000 kilometers. Bone stock so far

12-12-2005, 12:03 AM	#9
BigOne Wannabe Elite Explorer Vancouver Island '94 XLT Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 96 Vehicle Specs	Yes, as you describe it in your last post it does sound like low fluid/pressure as opposed to anything else. __________________ '94 Explorer XLT, 4x4, 4dr, auto, V6, factory sun roof, factory running boards, Ford hood deflector, dual power cloth seats, grey interior. Purchased used February 20, 2002 with 138,000 kilometers. Bone stock so far

12-01-2005, 12:41 AM	#2
Glacier991 EF Tranny Guru Sacramento, CA 95827 1992 XLT Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 9,830 Vehicle Specs	This is one of the more difficult problems I have encountered. There are many possibilities.....yet your symptoms are so varied. That said let's explore. No shift can often be pressure related. Low fluid, bad pump, a component that leaks like crazy affecting line pressure, etc. I wish you could hook up a pressure gauge and drive it a while and see what your pressures do when this happens. THAT would help a lot. Governor. Used a lot in shift timing on the 1st Gens. It could be sticky. It rarely gets the attention it needs in rebuilds. Valve body bolts... improper torque, cross leaks. Again your range of symptoms does not favor this. I wish I could give you more..... the pressures would be golden. All in all I am betting on the valve body somehow. ps. each symptom also has a mechanical failure explaination, but those don't fit because they would be constant. Eg a glazed drum or bad band doesn't fix itself.

12-01-2005, 02:00 AM	#4
Glacier991 EF Tranny Guru Sacramento, CA 95827 1992 XLT Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 9,830 Vehicle Specs	Well.... with all due respect....the issue on boring and bushing is leakage here, not shift changes. The small difference (.020 or so in the diameter pre and post) is not likely to change the manual lever position enough to alter the shift.

12-01-2005, 08:43 PM	#6
Glacier991 EF Tranny Guru Sacramento, CA 95827 1992 XLT Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 9,830 Vehicle Specs	Point taken. No offense meant. In the A4LD's I have seen I just could not imagine enough play there (at the bore for the shifter to enter the case) to alter location of the manual valve significantly - which is where it needs to happen to alter the shift. Now... the manual valve Z link hole.. I have seen some very ovalled out... and that is right IN LINE with the movement, not at right angles to it.

12-10-2005, 10:00 PM	#7
thebadj Wannabe Elite Explorer Greater Houston Area '91 Exporer XLT 4X4 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 11 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Thanks for all those comments. Probably the most common problem in this is the simple failure to engage, hot or cold, when started. All the shift positions seem to respond accurately during normal operation: no confusion between gears. It's just that it has to sometimes be coaxed by shifting gears back and forth or, underway, light revving. And sometimes from a standstill, it'll give a little power nudge but not fully engage. I never over-rev it. And it's not leaking from the shift shaft. A rebuild ago, I had that re-sealed. Do not know if it was re-bushed, but when I did remove bottom end for a shift detent problem, the shaft seemed fine, tight. Sometimes this will happen on slow, like 1--15 mph in gentle cruise in neighborhood. I can get it back in by gently revving, I mean real gently, not more than a two-three 100 rpm. When it does engage, it's not a hard clunk, but I can usually feel it. Once engaged, it feels normal without slippage. It's pretty much a black/white situation.

12-10-2005, 10:45 PM	#8
Glacier991 EF Tranny Guru Sacramento, CA 95827 1992 XLT Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 9,830 Vehicle Specs	Part of what you are describing fits a "low fluid" situation almost perfecftly. Now low fluid equates to low pressure, so first Q, are you sure the fluid is full?

01-07-2006, 08:56 PM	#10
thebadj Wannabe Elite Explorer Greater Houston Area '91 Exporer XLT 4X4 Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 11 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Thanks to all of you. I know it's not mechanical. I went thru that not long ago and not leaking there. God Bless her old carcass: 285K mi and still going. Not smoking; passes emissions. But that trans can always be coaxed into gear: cold, first run: playing with shift lever thru and back thru detents. And it will almost never take full throttle on-ramp acceleration cold without flaring. And once hot, it'll surprise me, mainly at very low speed. If it flares at cruise, it's alway 10-25 mph w/o throttle load. It's almost like if you back off gas, 1 in a 50-100 times, it'll flare and go back 'in' doing nothing...it just let's you know with a clunk and off I go.

01-07-2006, 09:09 PM	#11
BrooklynBay Aerostar Forum Moderator Brooklyn, NY 88 89 93 95 96 Aerostars Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 45,688 Vehicle Specs	If you do decide to open the valve body again, I would recommend a $20 upgrade to the manual slide that the Z linkage goes into. It's an upgraded shaft that prevents a situation where there is still some apply in the park position. This lever has the hole for the Z link in a slightly diferent place. It helps make a more positive engagement in the correct gear setting.

01-07-2006, 11:49 PM	#12
Glacier991 EF Tranny Guru Sacramento, CA 95827 1992 XLT Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 9,830 Vehicle Specs	I'm gonna guess that a rebuilt A4LD valve body from something "younger" and a replacement of the governor would in all liklihood solve these problems.