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help with 211 code Profile Ignition Pick-up circuit fault

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Old 07-18-2006, 04:27 PM   #1
Minivek
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help with 211 code Profile Ignition Pick-up circuit fault

Hi everyone, I pulled mi codes this morning and got a continuous memory code : 211 Profile Ignition Pick-up circuit fault. My truck is a 94 5 speed. I would like to know if anybody has suggestions as to fixing this and in what way it affects my engine.

Thank you very much and have a nice day!!




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Old 07-18-2006, 05:16 PM   #2
MrShorty
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If the engine won't start, periodically stalls and won't start, or stumbles during normal operation, then a CM 211 may be related to the driveability symptom. It indicates that the computer isn't always seeing the PIP signal generated by the CKP/CMP/ICM. Specifics of the diagnosis depend on the exact scenario and the exact layout your '94 uses (I don't have enough information about a '94 to know the details). Basically, you would be looking for a break in the wiring between the CKP and ICM, a bad wire to the ICM (including power and ground wires), a bad connection between PCM and CMP, or faults in any of the above components (CKP/CMP/ICM/PCM).

If there are no driveability symptoms, I would first start by clearing CM, run it through a drive cycle, and make sure the CM 211 comes back.




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Old 07-18-2006, 05:26 PM   #3
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more info

Hi, and thanks for the quick response. Actually, I don't get a service engine soon light. The truck doesn'T seem to have drivability problems, the engine does shake some (I can feel it in the shifter) but it seems to idle pretty steady at 800 RPM, sometimes I get the weird feeling that the engine might stall (engines usually shake roughly when stalling, like when you run out of gas) but it keeps a steady idle. at highway speeds, the engine ticks as soon as i throttle it a bit, and its almost inaudible if I'm coasting. Normal valve clicking at idle in the driveway, not reaaal pronounced appears to be ok. The only other thing might be poor fuel economy but I've been getting 19 mpg last week so I'm not sure. the eec-IV indicates all other tests are ok. As for clearing the CC codes, I did so about 3 weeks ago when I wired the door, so I'm thinking it was there as well, before. no need for pictures but where are the wires I should check located so I can wiggle and check em??

Thanks a lot!!!! and sorry for the long post hehe




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Old 07-19-2006, 10:05 AM   #4
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CKP (if present) will be on the front of the engine next to the crankshaft pulley
CMP is on the rear of the engine where the distributor would be if the 4.0 had a distributor.
ICM (on my '92 at least) is in front of the battery next to the radiator.
PCM is behind the passenger kick panel in front of the door below the glove box.
The wires interconnecting these components are strung all over creation.

If you don't have a wiring diagram, you'll almost certainly need to get one. You might even go to the library and see if they have some good repair manuals so you can look up and copy the circuit pinpoint test for a CM 211.




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Old 07-19-2006, 10:10 AM   #5
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Cool thanks alot Mr. shorty, I'll check this out when I get back home tonight. BTW is this something I should even worry if it hasn't tripped the service engine soon (never has in the last 4-5 years)?? what about cam sensor chirp?? I thought it might be the power steering pump, but that got me wondereing...

Anyways thank a bunch




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Old 07-19-2006, 06:26 PM   #6
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If the code keeps coming back, then I would tend to believe something is wrong whether or not the CEL comes on. I'm not at all surprised that a PIP code didn't trigger the CEL, so I'd figure out what's wrong.




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Old 09-14-2006, 07:40 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrShorty
If the engine won't start, periodically stalls and won't start, or stumbles during normal operation, then a CM 211 may be related to the driveability symptom. It indicates that the computer isn't always seeing the PIP signal generated by the CKP/CMP/ICM. Specifics of the diagnosis depend on the exact scenario and the exact layout your '94 uses (I don't have enough information about a '94 to know the details). Basically, you would be looking for a break in the wiring between the CKP and ICM, a bad wire to the ICM (including power and ground wires), a bad connection between PCM and CMP, or faults in any of the above components (CKP/CMP/ICM/PCM).

If there are no driveability symptoms, I would first start by clearing CM, run it through a drive cycle, and make sure the CM 211 comes back.
Hey, I am a forum noob, with a 1994 Ranger 4x4 XLT. I have the 3.0 and automatic. I am also getting the 211 code, as well as some others, which are a bit confusing.....

172, 176, 181, 189....

172 and 176 relate to lean conditions, no HEGO, and o2 not switching. 181 and 189 relate to rich condition at part throttle. The o2 sensors were changed not too long ago, at least the left and right ones were, not the one after the cat. Anyways, a little help please with the abbreviations you used--CKP/CMP/ICM?? I know what the PCM is, just trying to sort out this problem.

By the way, mine is quite hard to start when cold, and stumbles like crazy when driving. Idle is fairly steady, but only once it has been warmed up. It used to run perfectly until this began. Every once in a while the CEL comes on, then goes off while driving.

Any thoughts, anyone??
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Old 09-14-2006, 11:30 PM   #8
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Abbreviations: CKP=CranKshaft Position sensor, CMP=CaMshaft Position sensor, ICM=Ignition Control Module.

First thing to do when you get a laundry list of codes is to identify each one as Key On Engine Off (KOEO), Continuous Memory (CM), or Key On Engine Running (KOER). If you're not sure, review my "notes on pulling EEC-IV codes" at the top of this forum.

Experience (with noobs and EEC-IV diagnostics) suggests that those are all going to be CM codes, because you probably haven't performed the KOER test, yet. If so, then the next thing to do would be to perform the KOER test. The 2nd thing I would do would be to clear CM, and run through a drive cycle to see which of those CM codes come right back.




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Last edited by MrShorty; 09-14-2006 at 11:31 PM. Reason: misspelled
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Old 09-15-2006, 07:12 AM   #9
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ok, sorry bout that. the KOEO codes are 176, 181, 189, and 211. the KOER codes are 172, 536, and 538. I am not concerned with those last two as they apply to not performing the brake check, etc. I did clear the CM and drive it again for a while, as rough as it runs, and I still get the codes.
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Old 09-15-2006, 07:31 AM   #10
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ok, sorry bout that. the KOEO codes are 176, 181, 189, and 211. the KOER codes are 172, 536, and 538. I am not concerned with those last two as they apply to not performing the brake check, etc. I did clear the CM and drive it again for a while, as rough as it runs, and I still get the codes.
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Old 09-26-2006, 09:16 PM   #11
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anyone got a thought on this??
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Old 09-27-2006, 10:48 AM   #12
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My code list suggests that all of those KOEO codes you've reported have to be CM codes, so I'm going to assume they are. Can I also assume that it passed the KOEO test?

An interesting set of codes. In part because misfires (caused by something in the ignition system) could conceivably cause O2 sensor lean codes.

With that in mind, I think I would start with the CM211.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell
1) Continuous Memory Code 211: Erratic Ignition
Code 211 indicates 2 successive erratic Profile Ignition
Pick-Up (PIP) pulses occurred. Possible causes for this fault are:
* Loose wires or connectors.
* Secondary ignition short to ground.
* On-board transmitter equipment (2-way radio).
From there, the manual goes into the details of checking the wiring between the ICM and the PCM. Information from the manual suggests that the PIP signal originates with the CKP (assuming your '94 has one), so check the wiring between the CKP and the ICM.
Final thought, if you have a library near you that has good manuals available (usually in the reference section), you might spend some time looking up the pinpoint tests and such.




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Old 12-11-2006, 10:58 AM   #13
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just a thought--would a vacuum leak cause trouble like this? I found two leaks, the first one is the lower part of the snorkel that goes from the air box to the throttle body. Right in front of the TB, the snorkel is worn away on the bottom, this is a pretty sizeable leak and it is between the MAF and the TB.

The second is a small plastic tube. There are two nipples on the air box where vacuum lines connect to, and tracing one of these lines brings you to a T fitting. After that T is where there is a break in the line. Could either of these be contributing to the problem? In either case, of course, I am going to replace the parts....just was wondering.
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Old 12-11-2006, 06:16 PM   #14
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Vacuum leaks can certainly contribute/cause O2 sensor lean codes. I don't know that they would have much to do with a 211.




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Old 12-11-2006, 07:26 PM   #15
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I know that it is trying to run really rich....so this may well explain it
But the 211 code is still nagging me. I am seriously thinking about just swapping the crank position sensor for a new one, as much as I hate to throw parts at a problem though....

But this is a serious size vacuum leak, and its between the MAF and the TB. That would cause some pretty good size starting issues, wouldnt it?
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Old 12-22-2006, 01:22 PM   #16
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Of the components noted by Mr. Shorty.... common problems in the ignition side are the ICM, and the hall effect sensors (the pickup sensors) used to generate the PIP.

Last edited by Glacier991; 12-22-2006 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 12-23-2006, 12:31 PM   #17
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well, everything i have seen indicates that this engine has a CKP mounted on the front cover next to the crankshaft pulley. I just crawled all over mine and found nothing that even remotely resembles this sensor, a place to mount one, or the wiring that would go to it. so at this point, my best guess would have to be the ICM in front of the battery.

For the $52 it's gonna take, I am just going to swap out the ICM and see what happens. At this point, it appears that it can only be a couple of things, and thats where I am going to start. The local advance auto even has them in stock. I'll get back to you guys when I swap it out to let you know how it goes. Thanks for the ideas.
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Old 12-23-2006, 05:44 PM   #18
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ok guys, I tested the ICM and it is good, so the only thing left would be the pickup coil, which in my truck is also the crank position sensor. So I picked one up for $30 today....took off the distributor cap/rotor, and then the metal cap under the rotor. But now it looks like the whole distributor shaft needs to come out to swap this piece. Anyone that can explain how to do this to me? Never had to mess with one before. There is a flat metal piece, a circle with two of the sides flat....and right under that is the pickup coil part. There are two small screws holding the pickup coil on, and they are nearly impossible to get to with that metal piece in the way. Anyone know how to remove this? Thanks!
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Old 12-23-2006, 06:48 PM   #19
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The 3.0 in the Ranger does not use a Crankshaft position sensor in the ignition. That is the 4.0 setup. What you have inside the distributor is the hall effect switch pickup assembly i mentioned earlier. The bad news is that to replace that assembly, you need to: a) remove the distributor (marking it for proper orientation on reassembly) and; b) then from the distributor, remove and disassemble the stator, which requires a press. This one is a PITA.

You may want to exhaust all other possibles and fix everything that needs to be fixed (vacuum leaks etc) before jumping into this one.

ps. You won't find much about this process in Haynes etc because it is beyond the tools available to (and in most cases ability of) the typical DIY'er.
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Old 12-23-2006, 08:16 PM   #20
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thanks for the help glacier....

so far, I have fixed everything else. I even put in a new coil today, just because it was so cheap to get a new one and the old one was looking pretty shabby. The vacuum leak was fixed by using a new air intake tube. This is really the only possibility left that I can think of.

When you talk about a press, what kind of press is it? I think my brother in law might have something there, I will check with him tomorrow to see. Hopefully, we can knock it out this weekend. This should be the last thing it needs to run. Plugs, wires, the coil, battery, fuel filter and the air snorkel are all new, and the ICM is verified to be good.

The next thing I need to figure out is the 4x4 system. This one has the puch button 4x4 and it no longer works. It was working fine, and then would intermittently work, and then it stopped working altogether. I have heard that the switching motor on the front axle needs to be removed and cleaned out....that's the next project.
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