hatched91 going from leafs to coils

*JoshC* · 02-20-2007, 07:17 AM

redranger4.0 · 02-20-2007, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james t

Your current trac bar angle is good. Did you butt-weld in a splice to the tracbar?

I think your street driving problem is caster. What does your caster look like? Its really hard to tell from pics but it appears that you either need to cut/turn the knuckles or bring the pinion down.

im with you james, I need a better picture but Caster seems to me off....

And who is blowing their nose on your frame?

hatched91 · 02-20-2007, 11:54 AM

ooo lowblow..i'll get some more pics. I think i'm going to make the trac bar straight, with no bends in it to see if that makes any difference. To clear things up a little more, when i go about 20mph, it starts bouncing from side to side as if i were jerking the wheel from side to side..it's terrifying and i can't go any faster. I know alignment can come into play, but i don't know if poor alignment can make the vehicle do what it's doing right now..also, i don't think the camber is adjustable on these axles, is that right?

**IZwack** · 02-20-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatched91

I think i'm going to make the trac bar straight, with no bends in it to see if that makes any difference...also, i don't think the camber is adjustable on these axles, is that right?

The shape of the "trac bar" or "panhard bar" doesnt make a difference -- thats what I was trying to get across. The only thing that matters is the imaginary line that goes from one mounting point to another. So it could have all sorts of fanciful bends and still be "in plane" with the steering link.

As for the camber, it should be okay unless you sliced the inner-knuckles (aka "C"s) and moved them -- or you have something thats bent.

hatched91 · 02-20-2007, 12:57 PM

nope, nothing is bent or sliced.

**IZwack** · 02-20-2007, 01:05 PM

If you're sure everything is square and straight, check to see if the previous owner put an adjustable ball-joint sleeve thing on the knuckle's upper-ball joint. Typically these threaded sleeves have a perfectly centered tappered hole. However, there are after-market sleeves with an off-centered hole that allows one to adjust the camber by a few degrees by rotating the sleeve.

**james t** · 02-20-2007, 01:22 PM

Its not the camber, its the caster. Everytime you turn the steering linkage "falls over" or "raises up" because the knuckles are on a bad plane due to the bad caster. When you hit even the smallest bump or road irregularity the kunckles turn a slight amount... since the caster is off the arms on the knuckles fall downward (or go upward) and this pulls the tierod down (or up). This in turn pulls the draglink down (or up) with it which pulls on the pitman arm which is by proxy attached to your steering wheel. This makes it road walk like a SOB.

Your draglink angle is fine. Fix the caster and you will fix the death wobble.

COB · 02-20-2007, 04:49 PM

sounds like your towed in like a mother f*****

hatched91 · 02-20-2007, 08:02 PM

thanks for the reply's guys. I think that james and COB have it. After talking to some people around here and your guys' responses, i think i'll check the towin. The oldman says that the front of the tires should be 1/4 less wide than the rear of the tires. Also, i don't have any sort of pivot in my radius arms and i don't have drop brackets. I think i'll build some this weekend and weld them on! I'm definitally going to take a look at the tow in tonight. I'll also check for the camber adjustment, but i think i'll have to end up buying some 5lug front rims and using the stock knuckles.

**james t** · 02-20-2007, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatched91

I'll also check for the camber adjustment, but i think i'll have to end up buying some 5lug front rims and using the stock knuckles.

Not camber, caster.

Your camber is probably fine. Even if its off a little, it wont give you the death wobble that you are getting.

hatched91 · 02-20-2007, 08:47 PM

yeah, i understand that. you can litterally see the positive camber from 4ft in front of the vehicle, you don't even have to stand back. Since my tires are most definitally used, i won't worry about that, but the ultimate goal is to get them aligned as well as possible. if i get a chance tomorrow in the daylight, i'll take some pics.

**IZwack** · 02-20-2007, 08:56 PM

lol camber vs. caster - who will win

hatched91 · 02-20-2007, 11:46 PM

well i don't believe it, i measured my toe-in, and it was 3" narrower in the front than in the rear of the tire. i turned my tie rod about 4 or 5 full turns, had about the same front and rear and what do ya know...it fixed it completely!!! i still have a little bit of slop in my steering but i think if i install the new poly lower track bar bushing, it will take care of that.

COB · 02-21-2007, 06:37 PM

because of such a huge tow in it was trying to walk your tires toward eachother and that was causing alot of your camber issues too
drives fine now doesent it???

hatched91 · 02-21-2007, 09:48 PM

yes it does! the camber straightened itself out as well!

hatched91 · 02-21-2007, 09:49 PM

yes it does! it took care of the camber as well!

**james t** · 02-23-2007, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IZwack

lol camber vs. caster - who will win

Teehee, alignment wars 2007.

Glad to see you got it worked out.

hatched91 · 02-25-2007, 03:06 AM

thanks, i'm glad it did work out! I still have a lot of slop in my steering, i think i'm going to get a different box, i'll probably go outside of the frame like section525 did. That way i will have no problem if i decide to go v8

Trckmagik · 02-26-2007, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by james t

Your current trac bar angle is good. Did you butt-weld in a splice to the tracbar?

I think your street driving problem is caster. What does your caster look like? Its really hard to tell from pics but it appears that you either need to cut/turn the knuckles or bring the pinion down.

JamesT is right on with this one. Your issue here is the fact that your coil buckets arent spaced out, and your caster is way off. Realistically, you will need to drop your radius arm mounts down a little, or lose some of the lift.

hatched91 · 02-28-2007, 12:00 AM

yeah, i plan on making some custom radius arm mounts, there isn't much to them. Also, once my V8 is in, i'm giong to space out the buckets..no point in spacing them out if the front end will sag a lot more when the v8 is in and i'll just have to grind them off again.

02-20-2007, 07:17 AM	#61
JoshC Only rolled it once honey Nitro, WV 97 4d OHV Join Date: May 2000 Posts: 4,525 Vehicle Specs	__________________ Josh Cassell --- WV Air Force National Guard 97 SASed explorer---RIP 06 Jeep Commander V8 2012 Chevy HD Z71 w/ 285's (company owned, I wouldn't buy it!) 2008 Yamaha Rhino-rock crawler

02-20-2007, 11:54 AM	#63
hatched91 Wannabe Elite Explorer godfrey, Illinois 1997 sport ohv 5spd Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 402 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	ooo lowblow..i'll get some more pics. I think i'm going to make the trac bar straight, with no bends in it to see if that makes any difference. To clear things up a little more, when i go about 20mph, it starts bouncing from side to side as if i were jerking the wheel from side to side..it's terrifying and i can't go any faster. I know alignment can come into play, but i don't know if poor alignment can make the vehicle do what it's doing right now..also, i don't think the camber is adjustable on these axles, is that right? __________________ http://www.myspace.com/modifyyourcar 1997 sport full width d44 sas, coils, 302 swapped, 5x7 infinity kappas, jl 10w3v2 subs, 12k HID's, 5% tint so you can't see up in my window

02-20-2007, 12:57 PM	#65
hatched91 Wannabe Elite Explorer godfrey, Illinois 1997 sport ohv 5spd Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 402 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	nope, nothing is bent or sliced. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/modifyyourcar 1997 sport full width d44 sas, coils, 302 swapped, 5x7 infinity kappas, jl 10w3v2 subs, 12k HID's, 5% tint so you can't see up in my window

02-20-2007, 01:05 PM	#66
IZwack Germantown, MD Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 22,390 Vehicle Specs	If you're sure everything is square and straight, check to see if the previous owner put an adjustable ball-joint sleeve thing on the knuckle's upper-ball joint. Typically these threaded sleeves have a perfectly centered tappered hole. However, there are after-market sleeves with an off-centered hole that allows one to adjust the camber by a few degrees by rotating the sleeve. __________________ »»»»»...how'd the moon get there, how'd the moon get there?

02-20-2007, 01:22 PM	#67
james t moderation Texarkana AR/TX 94 SAS sport Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 11,258 Vehicle Specs	Its not the camber, its the caster. Everytime you turn the steering linkage "falls over" or "raises up" because the knuckles are on a bad plane due to the bad caster. When you hit even the smallest bump or road irregularity the kunckles turn a slight amount... since the caster is off the arms on the knuckles fall downward (or go upward) and this pulls the tierod down (or up). This in turn pulls the draglink down (or up) with it which pulls on the pitman arm which is by proxy attached to your steering wheel. This makes it road walk like a SOB. Your draglink angle is fine. Fix the caster and you will fix the death wobble. __________________ my rebuild

02-20-2007, 04:49 PM	#68
COB Wannabe Elite Explorer KELOWNA B.C 1991 RANGER Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 25 Vehicle Specs	sounds like your towed in like a mother f***** __________________ 1991 ford ranger 4.0 5 speed sas'd 4.88's locked front and rear 13"s of lift chromoly everything CTM's and 37" ssr's 1996 explorer 5.0 awd 3" flowy exaust and 20's

02-20-2007, 08:02 PM	#69
hatched91 Wannabe Elite Explorer godfrey, Illinois 1997 sport ohv 5spd Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 402 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	thanks for the reply's guys. I think that james and COB have it. After talking to some people around here and your guys' responses, i think i'll check the towin. The oldman says that the front of the tires should be 1/4 less wide than the rear of the tires. Also, i don't have any sort of pivot in my radius arms and i don't have drop brackets. I think i'll build some this weekend and weld them on! I'm definitally going to take a look at the tow in tonight. I'll also check for the camber adjustment, but i think i'll have to end up buying some 5lug front rims and using the stock knuckles. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/modifyyourcar 1997 sport full width d44 sas, coils, 302 swapped, 5x7 infinity kappas, jl 10w3v2 subs, 12k HID's, 5% tint so you can't see up in my window

02-20-2007, 08:47 PM	#71
hatched91 Wannabe Elite Explorer godfrey, Illinois 1997 sport ohv 5spd Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 402 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	yeah, i understand that. you can litterally see the positive camber from 4ft in front of the vehicle, you don't even have to stand back. Since my tires are most definitally used, i won't worry about that, but the ultimate goal is to get them aligned as well as possible. if i get a chance tomorrow in the daylight, i'll take some pics. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/modifyyourcar 1997 sport full width d44 sas, coils, 302 swapped, 5x7 infinity kappas, jl 10w3v2 subs, 12k HID's, 5% tint so you can't see up in my window

02-20-2007, 08:56 PM	#72
IZwack Germantown, MD Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 22,390 Vehicle Specs	lol camber vs. caster - who will win __________________ »»»»»...how'd the moon get there, how'd the moon get there?

02-20-2007, 11:46 PM	#73
hatched91 Wannabe Elite Explorer godfrey, Illinois 1997 sport ohv 5spd Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 402 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	well i don't believe it, i measured my toe-in, and it was 3" narrower in the front than in the rear of the tire. i turned my tie rod about 4 or 5 full turns, had about the same front and rear and what do ya know...it fixed it completely!!! i still have a little bit of slop in my steering but i think if i install the new poly lower track bar bushing, it will take care of that. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/modifyyourcar 1997 sport full width d44 sas, coils, 302 swapped, 5x7 infinity kappas, jl 10w3v2 subs, 12k HID's, 5% tint so you can't see up in my window

02-21-2007, 06:37 PM	#74
COB Wannabe Elite Explorer KELOWNA B.C 1991 RANGER Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 25 Vehicle Specs	because of such a huge tow in it was trying to walk your tires toward eachother and that was causing alot of your camber issues too drives fine now doesent it??? __________________ 1991 ford ranger 4.0 5 speed sas'd 4.88's locked front and rear 13"s of lift chromoly everything CTM's and 37" ssr's 1996 explorer 5.0 awd 3" flowy exaust and 20's

02-21-2007, 09:48 PM	#75
hatched91 Wannabe Elite Explorer godfrey, Illinois 1997 sport ohv 5spd Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 402 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	yes it does! the camber straightened itself out as well! __________________ http://www.myspace.com/modifyyourcar 1997 sport full width d44 sas, coils, 302 swapped, 5x7 infinity kappas, jl 10w3v2 subs, 12k HID's, 5% tint so you can't see up in my window

02-21-2007, 09:49 PM	#76
hatched91 Wannabe Elite Explorer godfrey, Illinois 1997 sport ohv 5spd Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 402 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	yes it does! it took care of the camber as well! __________________ http://www.myspace.com/modifyyourcar 1997 sport full width d44 sas, coils, 302 swapped, 5x7 infinity kappas, jl 10w3v2 subs, 12k HID's, 5% tint so you can't see up in my window

02-25-2007, 03:06 AM	#78
hatched91 Wannabe Elite Explorer godfrey, Illinois 1997 sport ohv 5spd Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 402 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	thanks, i'm glad it did work out! I still have a lot of slop in my steering, i think i'm going to get a different box, i'll probably go outside of the frame like section525 did. That way i will have no problem if i decide to go v8 __________________ http://www.myspace.com/modifyyourcar 1997 sport full width d44 sas, coils, 302 swapped, 5x7 infinity kappas, jl 10w3v2 subs, 12k HID's, 5% tint so you can't see up in my window

02-28-2007, 12:00 AM	#80
hatched91 Wannabe Elite Explorer godfrey, Illinois 1997 sport ohv 5spd Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 402 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	yeah, i plan on making some custom radius arm mounts, there isn't much to them. Also, once my V8 is in, i'm giong to space out the buckets..no point in spacing them out if the front end will sag a lot more when the v8 is in and i'll just have to grind them off again. __________________ http://www.myspace.com/modifyyourcar 1997 sport full width d44 sas, coils, 302 swapped, 5x7 infinity kappas, jl 10w3v2 subs, 12k HID's, 5% tint so you can't see up in my window