Bathroom remodel..

tdavis · 03-12-2007, 11:18 PM

So, I've decided to wreck.. er remodel my master bath.

Before I started, the know problems was:

1) Low, non-existant hot water flow.
2) Floor had a slope - almost 4" in 10ft.
3) Poorly installed whirpool tub.
4) Badly installed shower enclosure.
5) Mis-installed vent fan (flapper valve installed upside down.. so it open when not being used, and closed when your turned on the air.. if the tube it was on was actually attached to the fan box.

So, here's some pictures of the starting point. It's hard to see, but the closet door doesn't work, and it's all scratched up - yea, they installed it, THEN did the dry wall work.

tdavis · 03-12-2007, 11:24 PM

These pictures are how NOT to install a drop in whirlpool tub. Yes, that's correct, I will have to use a jackhammer to break it out. So, that means this tub is probably destroyed.

It also wasn't positioned properly. It should of been centered in the bench, instead of pushed to one side and then back. They do make a tile flange kit for this tub.... BUT, the contractor decided to use grout and fill in.

Yea, the new tub will be moved to the center, and the bench will probably get extended out 6-12". I plan to re-install a whirlpool type tub, with a roman style faucet with a personal hand shower in the deck. Funny, that last sentence means about $1500 in materials..

tdavis · 03-12-2007, 11:25 PM

But this is the fun part of removing the tub.

The idiot cemented the drain in, so you can't take it apart - it has to be cut out, then jackhammered.

tdavis · 03-12-2007, 11:29 PM

I didn't take any pictures of the show stall - this is where I found the silicon trying to hold the walls on (didn't hold), and the shower base in the air with no support under (so it flexed and quickly cracked into pieces).

The good news - my neighbor does floors for a living, and says the slope can be easily fixed (self-leveling concrete). The water flow problem is a water deposit problem that can be fixed with replacement of the traps/filters/pressure flow valves. I will fix the fan when I replace the box with a better fan setup, and when I put up the new greenboard I will install a vapor barrier.

The tub is complete loss in my book already.

Only thing I'm keeping is the toilet - don't worry, he did screw that one up too, but that is also fixable.

**MountaineerGreen** · 03-12-2007, 11:40 PM

Ahh... I love builders who do really crappy work that makes no sense! Looks like you've got tons of fun ahead of you. I'm subscribing- will have to remodel a master bath before long with a baby blue tub.

**BrooklynBay** · 03-12-2007, 11:50 PM

What brand is the tub? There are a lot of salvageable parts such as the pump motor, air actuated switch, vents/jets, etc. I could be wrong, but I think American Standard has a lifetime warranty on the motor. Check into this. By the way, how long ago did this contractor perform this botched up installation?

**BrooklynBay** · 03-12-2007, 11:54 PM

That drain pipe looks like ABS plastic which is cheaper, lighter, and more fragile than PVC. The name of the leveling cement is called thinset. They come as either a premixed formula, or a powder which needs water.

**Burns** · 03-12-2007, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrooklynBay

That drain pipe looks like ABS plastic which is cheaper, lighter, and more fragile than PVC. The name of the leveling cement is called thinset. They come as either a premixed formula, or a powder which needs water.

It does...Cheap worker and products im sure...

**BrooklynBay** · 03-13-2007, 12:04 AM

It looks like the Moen anti scald shower body. Am I correct? It's hard to tell from the picture. I only have part of it at an angle. You need a special tool to remove the cartridge to clean it out. I would recommend using cement board (Wonderboard) around the tub area. There is something new called Backerboard, but I've never used it yet. It is lighter, and flakes apart compared to cracking.

tdavis · 03-13-2007, 12:35 AM

The tub is the lowest, cheapest Home Depot/American Standard special - only like $300 from them. No great lost on the tub, it's out of warranty anyway due to the way it was installed, which occurred about 7 years ago anyway.

I'll sell the tub on Craigslist locally. Somebody will scarf it up in no time.

The parts to fix the shower valve - even though the whole valve was sold by Home Depot, you can't get the replacement parts needed to fix it. It's held together by 3 screws for the valve, and another 3 screws for the anti-scald portion. No special tools needed, other than one set of screws is slotted, and the other is a cross head..

Thinset is what you set tiles with; the neighbor who does floors will help me level and fix the floor at his cost for materials, and labor is a favor (he owes me a favor or two....

When I redo the walls, I plan to use cement board on 3/4" plywood for the decking, and cement board on the walls where I tile it up, and green board for the rest.

My neighbor had a shower installed that I want - made out of solid surface, with clear glass door and brushed nickel where ever metal shows.

**rizzjc** · 03-13-2007, 01:01 AM

Hmmm, and interesting post to stumble upon right after returning from my Mom's house where I was turning off the water (valve corroded, had to call the city to turn it off at the street), draining the leaking water heater (water heater located in the ATTIC), and finding the areas where the water got (bathroom wall - conveniently running into the tub), and bedroom, on top of the door. Since it use to be my house, and I knew the pan under the wanter heater is only about an inch tall, I knew I was in trouble when she emailed asking where the water came from that was coming out the pipe at the back of the house.

Long story short, I feel your pain. Bathrooms are fun, and challenging, and make sure nothing leaks when you're done.

Looking forward to the progress.

tdavis · 03-13-2007, 01:21 AM

I just found this. A little costly, but interesting..

**rizzjc** · 03-13-2007, 08:08 AM

Definitely some new products out there that are easily to deal with, and better than the "old way". Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

**Turdle** · 03-13-2007, 08:19 AM

Thinset is indeed used to set tile--it is too thick to use as a leveler--however it can be used to create a slope for drainage-(shower pan)

You need an epoxy type product--like this

http://www.cgmbuildingproducts.com/pd1_f.htm

It will be a free flowing liquid, so be sure to build "dams"

tdavis · 03-14-2007, 12:17 PM

I picked up samples of the colors for my shower last night. Dang, close to 20 different colors! This solid surface stuff is impressive, and not too costly - total for the shower (glass, surface, and fixtures will be in the $1700 - $2k range). But that is for something that has no grout lines to clean, no gloss to wear off, and little to no visible caulking. Best part is if you scratch/damage the surface, you can buff out the damage! FYI, the manufacturer's web page is at http://www.swanstone.com

Yes, when it comes to cleaning, I'm a lazy bastard.

I also found a set of patio french doors at the local homedepot that I like - aluminum outside, wood inside, loez glass, again not too $$$ - $800 for the door, plus lock hardware. So that is going to go replace a window in the bedroom wall, giving me access to the backyard. http://www.atriumpatiodoors.com/ is their website.

tdavis · 03-14-2007, 05:48 PM

I found the water flow problem, and verified that is NOT a size/routing problem, but a debris problem.

I can fill my tub in about 5minutes, so I'm much happier now!

Next problem, finding the repair parts for the faucets. This has been a royal PITA, nobody around here really carries American Standard repair parts..

This part is full of garbage. I've been flushing the lines today, and did a test fill of the tub, trying to get all this crap out of the lines.

**Turdle** · 03-14-2007, 06:14 PM

http://www.lockesupply.com/Pages/Catalog.html

try these guys

**BrooklynBay** · 03-15-2007, 09:28 PM

This link has a lot of useful information on plumbing: http://www.diydata.com/plumbing/index.php

**BrooklynBay** · 03-15-2007, 09:42 PM

This link is about bathroom electrical wiring: http://www.diydata.com/electrics/bat..._electrics.php

tdavis · 03-17-2007, 11:03 PM

Well, my journey into the madness continues..

No vapor barrier installed, no stapling of the craft paper on the insulation to make one. The fan exhaust was just stuck into the vent, not attached, sealed or anything on it..

And, in the space over the closet, zip, zilch, nada - no insulation. No wonder that area was always so cold.

03-12-2007, 11:18 PM	#1
tdavis Linux Guru Jack of All Trades Pinole, CA 2001 F250/XLT Superduty Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6,002 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Bathroom remodel.. So, I've decided to wreck.. er remodel my master bath. Before I started, the know problems was: 1) Low, non-existant hot water flow. 2) Floor had a slope - almost 4" in 10ft. 3) Poorly installed whirpool tub. 4) Badly installed shower enclosure. 5) Mis-installed vent fan (flapper valve installed upside down.. so it open when not being used, and closed when your turned on the air.. if the tube it was on was actually attached to the fan box. So, here's some pictures of the starting point. It's hard to see, but the closet door doesn't work, and it's all scratched up - yea, they installed it, THEN did the dry wall work. Attached Images __________________ Thomas Davis Chased vehicle -> Honda VFR800 Tow vehicle -> Ford F250 Superduty Frankenstein Rock Crawler - > Suzuki Samurai (sold, onto the next project..)

03-12-2007, 11:24 PM	#2
tdavis Linux Guru Jack of All Trades Pinole, CA 2001 F250/XLT Superduty Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6,002 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	These pictures are how NOT to install a drop in whirlpool tub. Yes, that's correct, I will have to use a jackhammer to break it out. So, that means this tub is probably destroyed. It also wasn't positioned properly. It should of been centered in the bench, instead of pushed to one side and then back. They do make a tile flange kit for this tub.... BUT, the contractor decided to use grout and fill in. Yea, the new tub will be moved to the center, and the bench will probably get extended out 6-12". I plan to re-install a whirlpool type tub, with a roman style faucet with a personal hand shower in the deck. Funny, that last sentence means about $1500 in materials.. Attached Images __________________ Thomas Davis Chased vehicle -> Honda VFR800 Tow vehicle -> Ford F250 Superduty Frankenstein Rock Crawler - > Suzuki Samurai (sold, onto the next project..)

03-12-2007, 11:25 PM	#3
tdavis Linux Guru Jack of All Trades Pinole, CA 2001 F250/XLT Superduty Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6,002 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	But this is the fun part of removing the tub. The idiot cemented the drain in, so you can't take it apart - it has to be cut out, then jackhammered. Attached Images __________________ Thomas Davis Chased vehicle -> Honda VFR800 Tow vehicle -> Ford F250 Superduty Frankenstein Rock Crawler - > Suzuki Samurai (sold, onto the next project..)

03-12-2007, 11:29 PM	#4
tdavis Linux Guru Jack of All Trades Pinole, CA 2001 F250/XLT Superduty Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6,002 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	I didn't take any pictures of the show stall - this is where I found the silicon trying to hold the walls on (didn't hold), and the shower base in the air with no support under (so it flexed and quickly cracked into pieces). The good news - my neighbor does floors for a living, and says the slope can be easily fixed (self-leveling concrete). The water flow problem is a water deposit problem that can be fixed with replacement of the traps/filters/pressure flow valves. I will fix the fan when I replace the box with a better fan setup, and when I put up the new greenboard I will install a vapor barrier. The tub is complete loss in my book already. Only thing I'm keeping is the toilet - don't worry, he did screw that one up too, but that is also fixable. __________________ Thomas Davis Chased vehicle -> Honda VFR800 Tow vehicle -> Ford F250 Superduty Frankenstein Rock Crawler - > Suzuki Samurai (sold, onto the next project..)

03-12-2007, 11:40 PM	#5
MountaineerGreen Towing Moderator North East Arkansas 2012 F150 4x4 Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 7,589 Vehicle Specs	Ahh... I love builders who do really crappy work that makes no sense! Looks like you've got tons of fun ahead of you. I'm subscribing- will have to remodel a master bath before long with a baby blue tub. __________________ -Evan Febuary 09 Feature Truck - Elite Registry - Photo Gallery - Feedback - Go Elite! - My Write Ups - EF Vendors

03-12-2007, 11:50 PM	#6
BrooklynBay Aerostar Forum Moderator Brooklyn, NY 88 89 93 95 96 Aerostars Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 45,688 Vehicle Specs	What brand is the tub? There are a lot of salvageable parts such as the pump motor, air actuated switch, vents/jets, etc. I could be wrong, but I think American Standard has a lifetime warranty on the motor. Check into this. By the way, how long ago did this contractor perform this botched up installation? __________________ My list of useful threads. My photo gallery. My product reviews. My list of items for sale. Aerostar owners thread. Aerostar parts work in Explorers, Rangers, and Bronco II thread. History of the Aerostar thread. Aerostar Forum. New Members Forum. Ford/Lincoln/Mercury Forum.

03-12-2007, 11:54 PM	#7
BrooklynBay Aerostar Forum Moderator Brooklyn, NY 88 89 93 95 96 Aerostars Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 45,688 Vehicle Specs	That drain pipe looks like ABS plastic which is cheaper, lighter, and more fragile than PVC. The name of the leveling cement is called thinset. They come as either a premixed formula, or a powder which needs water. __________________ My list of useful threads. My photo gallery. My product reviews. My list of items for sale. Aerostar owners thread. Aerostar parts work in Explorers, Rangers, and Bronco II thread. History of the Aerostar thread. Aerostar Forum. New Members Forum. Ford/Lincoln/Mercury Forum.

03-13-2007, 12:04 AM	#9
BrooklynBay Aerostar Forum Moderator Brooklyn, NY 88 89 93 95 96 Aerostars Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 45,688 Vehicle Specs	It looks like the Moen anti scald shower body. Am I correct? It's hard to tell from the picture. I only have part of it at an angle. You need a special tool to remove the cartridge to clean it out. I would recommend using cement board (Wonderboard) around the tub area. There is something new called Backerboard, but I've never used it yet. It is lighter, and flakes apart compared to cracking. __________________ My list of useful threads. My photo gallery. My product reviews. My list of items for sale. Aerostar owners thread. Aerostar parts work in Explorers, Rangers, and Bronco II thread. History of the Aerostar thread. Aerostar Forum. New Members Forum. Ford/Lincoln/Mercury Forum.

03-13-2007, 12:35 AM	#10
tdavis Linux Guru Jack of All Trades Pinole, CA 2001 F250/XLT Superduty Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6,002 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	The tub is the lowest, cheapest Home Depot/American Standard special - only like $300 from them. No great lost on the tub, it's out of warranty anyway due to the way it was installed, which occurred about 7 years ago anyway. I'll sell the tub on Craigslist locally. Somebody will scarf it up in no time. The parts to fix the shower valve - even though the whole valve was sold by Home Depot, you can't get the replacement parts needed to fix it. It's held together by 3 screws for the valve, and another 3 screws for the anti-scald portion. No special tools needed, other than one set of screws is slotted, and the other is a cross head.. Thinset is what you set tiles with; the neighbor who does floors will help me level and fix the floor at his cost for materials, and labor is a favor (he owes me a favor or two.... When I redo the walls, I plan to use cement board on 3/4" plywood for the decking, and cement board on the walls where I tile it up, and green board for the rest. My neighbor had a shower installed that I want - made out of solid surface, with clear glass door and brushed nickel where ever metal shows. __________________ Thomas Davis Chased vehicle -> Honda VFR800 Tow vehicle -> Ford F250 Superduty Frankenstein Rock Crawler - > Suzuki Samurai (sold, onto the next project..)

03-13-2007, 01:01 AM	#11
rizzjc Scubajoe - Radio Mod Garner, NC '97 AWD V8 XLT Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,247 Vehicle Specs	Hmmm, and interesting post to stumble upon right after returning from my Mom's house where I was turning off the water (valve corroded, had to call the city to turn it off at the street), draining the leaking water heater (water heater located in the ATTIC), and finding the areas where the water got (bathroom wall - conveniently running into the tub), and bedroom, on top of the door. Since it use to be my house, and I knew the pan under the wanter heater is only about an inch tall, I knew I was in trouble when she emailed asking where the water came from that was coming out the pipe at the back of the house. Long story short, I feel your pain. Bathrooms are fun, and challenging, and make sure nothing leaks when you're done. Looking forward to the progress. __________________ *Joe, N1LVN* '97 XLT AWD V8 STOCK Amsoil Synthetics throughout. Amsoil Ea air filter. Bilsteins. Scanguage. Search ExplorerForum

03-13-2007, 01:21 AM	#12
tdavis Linux Guru Jack of All Trades Pinole, CA 2001 F250/XLT Superduty Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6,002 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	I just found this. A little costly, but interesting.. __________________ Thomas Davis Chased vehicle -> Honda VFR800 Tow vehicle -> Ford F250 Superduty Frankenstein Rock Crawler - > Suzuki Samurai (sold, onto the next project..)

03-13-2007, 08:08 AM	#13
rizzjc Scubajoe - Radio Mod Garner, NC '97 AWD V8 XLT Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 3,247 Vehicle Specs	Definitely some new products out there that are easily to deal with, and better than the "old way". Looking forward to seeing the finished product. __________________ *Joe, N1LVN* '97 XLT AWD V8 STOCK Amsoil Synthetics throughout. Amsoil Ea air filter. Bilsteins. Scanguage. Search ExplorerForum

03-13-2007, 08:19 AM	#14
Turdle Old and in the way Humboldt, Kansas 2000 Mounty Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 23,741 Vehicle Specs	Thinset is indeed used to set tile--it is too thick to use as a leveler--however it can be used to create a slope for drainage-(shower pan) You need an epoxy type product--like this http://www.cgmbuildingproducts.com/pd1_f.htm It will be a free flowing liquid, so be sure to build "dams" __________________ Jon 2000 Mountaineer Turdle-gone Vitamin D Wagon Sold also

03-14-2007, 12:17 PM	#15
tdavis Linux Guru Jack of All Trades Pinole, CA 2001 F250/XLT Superduty Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6,002 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	I picked up samples of the colors for my shower last night. Dang, close to 20 different colors! This solid surface stuff is impressive, and not too costly - total for the shower (glass, surface, and fixtures will be in the $1700 - $2k range). But that is for something that has no grout lines to clean, no gloss to wear off, and little to no visible caulking. Best part is if you scratch/damage the surface, you can buff out the damage! FYI, the manufacturer's web page is at http://www.swanstone.com Yes, when it comes to cleaning, I'm a lazy bastard. I also found a set of patio french doors at the local homedepot that I like - aluminum outside, wood inside, loez glass, again not too $$$ - $800 for the door, plus lock hardware. So that is going to go replace a window in the bedroom wall, giving me access to the backyard. http://www.atriumpatiodoors.com/ is their website. __________________ Thomas Davis Chased vehicle -> Honda VFR800 Tow vehicle -> Ford F250 Superduty Frankenstein Rock Crawler - > Suzuki Samurai (sold, onto the next project..)

03-14-2007, 05:48 PM	#16
tdavis Linux Guru Jack of All Trades Pinole, CA 2001 F250/XLT Superduty Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6,002 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Woo Hoo! I found the water flow problem, and verified that is NOT a size/routing problem, but a debris problem. I can fill my tub in about 5minutes, so I'm much happier now! Next problem, finding the repair parts for the faucets. This has been a royal PITA, nobody around here really carries American Standard repair parts.. This part is full of garbage. I've been flushing the lines today, and did a test fill of the tub, trying to get all this crap out of the lines. Attached Images __________________ Thomas Davis Chased vehicle -> Honda VFR800 Tow vehicle -> Ford F250 Superduty Frankenstein Rock Crawler - > Suzuki Samurai (sold, onto the next project..)

03-14-2007, 06:14 PM	#17
Turdle Old and in the way Humboldt, Kansas 2000 Mounty Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 23,741 Vehicle Specs	http://www.lockesupply.com/Pages/Catalog.html try these guys __________________ Jon 2000 Mountaineer Turdle-gone Vitamin D Wagon Sold also

03-15-2007, 09:28 PM	#18
BrooklynBay Aerostar Forum Moderator Brooklyn, NY 88 89 93 95 96 Aerostars Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 45,688 Vehicle Specs	This link has a lot of useful information on plumbing: http://www.diydata.com/plumbing/index.php __________________ My list of useful threads. My photo gallery. My product reviews. My list of items for sale. Aerostar owners thread. Aerostar parts work in Explorers, Rangers, and Bronco II thread. History of the Aerostar thread. Aerostar Forum. New Members Forum. Ford/Lincoln/Mercury Forum.

03-15-2007, 09:42 PM	#19
BrooklynBay Aerostar Forum Moderator Brooklyn, NY 88 89 93 95 96 Aerostars Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 45,688 Vehicle Specs	This link is about bathroom electrical wiring: http://www.diydata.com/electrics/bat..._electrics.php __________________ My list of useful threads. My photo gallery. My product reviews. My list of items for sale. Aerostar owners thread. Aerostar parts work in Explorers, Rangers, and Bronco II thread. History of the Aerostar thread. Aerostar Forum. New Members Forum. Ford/Lincoln/Mercury Forum.

03-17-2007, 11:03 PM	#20
tdavis Linux Guru Jack of All Trades Pinole, CA 2001 F250/XLT Superduty Join Date: Jan 2000 Posts: 6,002 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Well, my journey into the madness continues.. No vapor barrier installed, no stapling of the craft paper on the insulation to make one. The fan exhaust was just stuck into the vent, not attached, sealed or anything on it.. And, in the space over the closet, zip, zilch, nada - no insulation. No wonder that area was always so cold. __________________ Thomas Davis Chased vehicle -> Honda VFR800 Tow vehicle -> Ford F250 Superduty Frankenstein Rock Crawler - > Suzuki Samurai (sold, onto the next project..)