5R55S swap

[Cobraguy]

Edited out. Not worth it. Too good a site for this crap.

[20focus05]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask.
But how much better is the 5R55S compaired to the 5R55E.
I'm from OZ and we are only seeing the 5R55S now in new Falcon(4 door family cars)


I work for an Auto trans shop and see lots of explorers come in with F'ed up boxes, Not sure what you call them there but we call them exploders.
we have a bloke with a 01 V8 Explorer and has had 4 boxes in it now.

[CDW6212R]

Welcome to the forum, and I'd suggest staying away from the mechanics working on the V8 trans. Unless you drive one into the ground, they last a long time and are reliable after rebuilt.

Burning up a trans is most of the time the driver's fault. When a transmission begins to show problems(symptoms), that is the only time to stop driving it. Do not drive it any farther, do not drive it home. Driving a trans that is slipping etc. is what burns them up. I define a burned up trans as one which should not be reused or rebuilt.

Most problems after a rebuild are caused by debris created while the trans was driven after it began to exhibit symptoms. If you do not remove all debris, the trans should not last very long. Avoid ever dealing with a trans which was driven until the vehicle would not move any longer. The radiator should be replaced, as well as the trans lines, and any coolers. The debris remains in those parts and ruins the next trans.

Thus, stop driving the vehicle immediately. That preserves the huge headache of future failures, the cost of replacing all of those parts, and makes the rebuild far easier.

Install an external filter on the trans outlet line for unhurt vehicles, on the inlet side for a rebuilt trans. Make good use of aftermarket improvement products, like valve body kits from TransGo, Sonnax, and Superior. Use better fluid, Mercon V at the least. Regards,

[20focus05]

most drivers dont understand that a funny noise from their car can be a big problem.

mate thats how we make money is by fixing up peoples problems!
in South Australia we are the top Auto trans rebuilders.
after we rebuild a trans the cooler and lines are power flushed for at least an hour.
and after the trans is installed, flow tested. the converter is also rebuilt.

So my question is to find out some info on the so called NEW trans for Fords new cars
If they are not to much different to the current 5r55s then we are due to make more money.
All Ford Exploders here in OZ are 4WD that could be the difference.
We have also seen the 5R55S in Jags and are considered shit!

I have seen the bloke on here punching good numbers though his box But has it had some mods?

[CDW6212R]

The 5R55S is a better trans than the 5R55E, I'd say much better. The 5R55E isn't suitable for any performance use, without at least all of the few aftermarket parts available. I think James has done nothing with his 5R55S except better PCM tuning, and fluid. The tuning can make a big difference with any of the electronic Ford transmissions. Ford usually builds new unit designs and has early troubles. It typically takes several years to work out the bugs. Thus we've likely reached the peak of the 5R55E's, while the 5R55 S/N/W is still being tweaked. The 4R70W is the result of 29 years of development since the AOD began. Those are very good to have for any application. Regards,

[20focus05]

Thanks for that.
Also that box James put in is considered an E here in oz?
Just did one the other day in a V8 explorer.

I'm a car nut so its interesting what you guys are doing.
I have not seen any explorers over here modifiyed yet, well adelaide anyway.
They are mostly luxury style cars owned by people that just drive them! the most 4wd work they see is the speed bumps in carparks.

[CDW6212R]

Originally Posted by 20focus05

Thanks for that.
Also that box James put in is considered an E here in oz?
....

Ah, you may have misunderstood this thread. James installed a 5R55S in his truck, in place of the original 5R55E. He has a special stand alone controller to operate the 5R55S. You might want to check out this from the beginning, and the threads by Glacier about the 5R55E, A4LD, and 4R70W. He(Chris) dug into those transmissions completely and learned what is available to make them better.

[20focus05]

found out to day that the new ford 5R55S has an upgraded case to stop the retaining post for the bands braking and wreaking the case itself. But all the internals are the same.
We do find that after rebuilding they do last.

[greyphox]

So have you defeated this demon yet James?
And would it have been possible to use a Mustang PCM so it had control of the tranny and then just tweak the engine variables to match that of your old? Just a thought, no clue if it would actually work or not

[compdoc777]

Originally Posted by rocket 5979

The IAT's do matter. The MAF itself does not read the post-blower IAT's but the IAT #2 sensor that is post blower sure as heck does. As for pegging the MAF meter? Stop trying to come in here and cause problems on a thread that is months old.

Sorry to barge in here but I have a question as far as heat and IAT's on the blowers. I have a Eaton M62 on a 2.0 liter K-Series Motor running 11.5:1 compression at 11 PSI. I make 330 whp at 8500 RPM when tuned with Kpro which is impressive on a car with a weight of 2500 LBS.

Anyway, I keep my IAT's down by using a gasket a Hondat Gasket which is a plastic "Non heat transfering material about 1/4 of an inch thick. When I go out on runs and come back open the hood the blower is warm but not too hot to touch you can hold your hand on it and you won't get burned.

So I was wondering if you have used that type of thermal gasket. Now mine separates the intake manifold from the head you can even touch the the intake mani and it is not hot after a run either.

Usually without the blower and the gasket running N/A touching the intake manifold on my car will give you 3rd degree burns even after is shut down.

Now I have no water flowing through my Intake mani nor my TB I did put some coolant in the line and capped it off.

These are things that could be tried on the Explorer to save some heat realted power loss on any setup.

I would think you would need to shave down the intake manifold if aluminum to fit the gasket. some way of making a heat resistant barrier over the oil galley. Then a way to bypass the water going into the Intake Manifold and using some sort of gel to fill the water galley in the intake manifold to i keep it cool.

Maybe find a way to transfer the water just in the head to block not through the Intake manifold. Having all the water ports blocked with the gasket.

If you think about a straight 4-8 would be the most efficient design to keep IAT's down using a gasket to separate the intake mani from the head and having the exhaust on the other side.

[rocket 5979]

Originally Posted by compdoc777

Sorry to barge in here but I have a question as far as heat and IAT's on the blowers. I have a Eaton M62 on a 2.0 liter K-Series Motor running 11.5:1 compression at 11 PSI. I make 330 whp at 8500 RPM when tuned with Kpro which is impressive on a car with a weight of 2500 LBS.

Anyway, I keep my IAT's down by using a gasket a Hondat Gasket which is a plastic "Non heat transfering material about 1/4 of an inch thick. When I go out on runs and come back open the hood the blower is warm but not too hot to touch you can hold your hand on it and you won't get burned.

So I was wondering if you have used that type of thermal gasket. Now mine separates the intake manifold from the head you can even touch the the intake mani and it is not hot after a run either.

Usually without the blower and the gasket running N/A touching the intake manifold on my car will give you 3rd degree burns even after is shut down.

Now I have no water flowing through my Intake mani nor my TB I did put some coolant in the line and capped it off.

These are things that could be tried on the Explorer to save some heat realted power loss on any setup.

I would think you would need to shave down the intake manifold if aluminum to fit the gasket. some way of making a heat resistant barrier over the oil galley. Then a way to bypass the water going into the Intake Manifold and using some sort of gel to fill the water galley in the intake manifold to i keep it cool.

Maybe find a way to transfer the water just in the head to block not through the Intake manifold. Having all the water ports blocked with the gasket.

If you think about a straight 4-8 would be the most efficient design to keep IAT's down using a gasket to separate the intake mani from the head and having the exhaust on the other side.

Pm sent.

[Jakee]

Well, sense this thread is back on top....

I'm turbo charged with the 5R55E and have no problems with 8 LBS. I'm pretty sure I'm at the same HP rating that James was at 8 LBS, if not more. I don't plan on doing the 5R55S swap unless I have to.

[Blee1099]

That topic about the manual swap has been relocated.. http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=227338

[jah81592]

Originally Posted by Jakee

Which brings me to ask this question. I've heard the stock 5r55e will hold 300 HP, right? How much could this tranny hold if it were rebuilt with the strongest available parts? Could this tranny be built to hold 400 HP?

Is there a guy here named GLACIER 991 that would be willing to build this 400 HP 5r55e tranny for someone?

I have answered this question before but I believe I will again after it has been pm'd to me many times. The internals are the same for the 5R55E & S. Otherwise the only difference is when and how the element is brought on. Thus allowing the tranny to handle more power. Also the logic in the stock tuning will compromise the overall hp you will be able to handle with the trans. Running a standalone with the 5R55S will allow alot more hp to be handled just from the way the controller processes and combined with the differences with in the tranny the power levels haven't been found yet.

Originally Posted by 20focus05

Not sure if this is the right place to ask.
But how much better is the 5R55S compaired to the 5R55E.
I'm from OZ and we are only seeing the 5R55S now in new Falcon(4 door family cars)


I work for an Auto trans shop and see lots of explorers come in with F'ed up boxes, Not sure what you call them there but we call them exploders.
we have a bloke with a 01 V8 Explorer and has had 4 boxes in it now.

Maybe you guys aren't doing something right???

Originally Posted by Jakee

Well, sense this thread is back on top....

I'm turbo charged with the 5R55E and have no problems with 8 LBS. I'm pretty sure I'm at the same HP rating that James was at 8 LBS, if not more. I don't plan on doing the 5R55S swap unless I have to.

Hmmm, beating your own drum are we?? Pretty sure you are at the same HP? Go to the track and find out. Talk is cheap. I have posted my time slips. Maybe it is time for yours. I believe you will be in for a rude awakening because you haven't even been on the track yet-turboed ( or that I am aware of). Like I said before, driving on the street is different than on the track. BTW-this is a thread for the 5R55S trans, no calling people out. If you want to do that go to the Need for Speed section and post a thread "call out".

Originally Posted by greyphox

So have you defeated this demon yet James?
And would it have been possible to use a Mustang PCM so it had control of the tranny and then just tweak the engine variables to match that of your old? Just a thought, no clue if it would actually work or not

I have made major progress and an engineer with PCS and I have plans on getting together before the end of the year. There is some logic which he prefers to be present to turn on. As well as some other issues we are working through. As far as using a 'Stang pcm the only year which had the tranny and engine combo was a 05/newer. These have drive by wire throttle, Spanish Oak processor and so on. The nightmare would have been extreme. I will keep you guys posted. -j

[BrooklynBay]

James, you will love this link: http://www.ratstangrestoration.com/5r55s-dipstick.htm. This shop makes kits to install a dipstick on the 5R55S! You don't have to climb under the vehicle to check, and refill it anymore. The link has instruction on how to make it yourself. This link has similar information: http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/tec...k-install.html.

[kiwami]

does anyone know if a 5R55s trans. will fit in my 05 XLT Explorer. Does the electric to the trans have to be modified.

[rocket 5979]

Originally Posted by kiwami

does anyone know if a 5R55s trans. will fit in my 05 XLT Explorer. Does the electric to the trans have to be modified.

You already have a 5R55W transmission which is pretty much the same thing as this transmission. No need to swap anything in your case. If you want it to hold more horsepower then just have your existing transmission rebuilt. Even in full stock form these 5R55W, 5R55S, 5R55N transmissions will hold up to a respectable amount of power. Years ago I took mine just past 400rwhp and it held fine.

[Rutt4.0OHV]

I must admit I don't know why I didn't join sooner. This place has some of the best info on even the most radical of swaps.
I'm kind of the resident expert on RPS on the A4LD, and its newer versions the 4r44e,4r55e,5r44e,and 5r55e. I was surprised to see that someone had taken the time and effort to swap in one of the newer 55 series transmissions.(S,N,W)
I applaud your work, but would like to clarify one thing at least. The 5r55e is not really the same as the s,n,or w. The 5r55e shares its roots with the now extinct c3 trans from 70's to 80's. These were light duty transmissions at best, although they could be built stronger. In, I believe, '85 is when the first elctronically controlled ford transmission came out. This was commonly known as th a4ld.(I may be off on the date) The a4ld was simply a c3 with an elecronically controlled TCC, and in later years, 3-4 shift. The 'top of the heap' was the a4ld that came behind the 4.0. I'm sure I read somewhere on this thread or another, the entire history of th a4ld line-up. I'll spare everyone the details. The internals are tiny when compared to the s,n, or w. Even though they operate much in the same way. One unique thing about the newer 55 series was the inclusion of a 32 bit controller. This made the trannies even more versatile, and in the right hands, very tunable.(Doug904 told me once he could get it to roll over and play dead)

The gear ratio differences are a dead give away that the internals are significantly different. The newer 55 series have around a 3.25:1 first gear, whereas the 5r55e has a wimpy 2.47:1 first gear. The only way this is accomplished is a different sized planetary gear set.(larger planets, smalller sun) Another is the fact the 5r55e has a 2-piece case. The s,n,w have a one piece.

Granted the 5r55e is leaps and bounds better than the a4ld, it still won't hold up for long under the stress of high horsepower.(high meaning above 300hp) They simply don't have the line pressure to keep it together without scrapping all of the clutches. On the plus side, you can modify a couple of the 55e fluid passages to a4ld specs, and alow for for more pressure. It seems ford limited the 55e because it wanted a nice transition between shifts, and it was now using oD to split first gear into a new 2nd.(1.87:1)
In fact, there was a company offering a controller that could be adapted to the 5r55e, allowing control of oD. In a sense you could have a 6-7-speed automatic.(1st,1stover,2nd,2nd over, 3rd, 3rdover, 4th) I believe it was this site here. Also, trans-go offers a nice shift kit for the 55e.
http://www.baumannengineering.com/a4ldinf.htm
I'm still a believer in the longevity of the 5r55e. I have one in a '98 4.0 4x4 ranger with 326,000 miles on it. It's been serviced regulary, and still gets beat on. The shifts are still as firm as the day I bought it. It's when you start modding the engine is when you start having issues. One fellow on RPS had a S/C SOHC 4.0 pushing 298rwhp, when his newly rebuilt 55e sarting having issues coming out of first and second gear. Part of it was the PCM trying its best to save the trans, and the other was a lack of line pressure. The PCM noticed a ratio problem, and promptly locked it into one gear until he let off the gas. If you really have the money you can beef these trannies up quite a bit. I know of one company that built an a4ld that holds up to 780hp. But, it isn't cheap.

The company is in the UK.(I think) I'll have to search for the website, but it would have cost me 2500-3000 sterling to have one built. That's not including shipping it over here.

I am glad that there is finally a feasble upgrade for even the most advantageous of us 4.0 builders. I may try one of these 55s swaps on my upcoming 4.0 project in the ranger. For those that didn't know, the SOHC tranny will bolt-up to the older OHV. I plan on building one with around 450hp.(If I ever get that money tree to grow)

[CDW6212R]

Originally Posted by Rutt4.0OHV

... For those that didn't know, the SOHC tranny will bolt-up to the older OHV. ...

Welcome to the site. The Explorer came with the OHV until mid 2000 I believe, and the 5R55E was the only V6 trans used for both when it came out. I wanted to refine my 5R, but my truck is no longer needed now.

James may work out a deal with you if you really want the 5R55S.

[Jakee]

There were a few transmission tuning changes (other than just raising the line pressure) I had to make in order to prevent hitting the rev limiter between 1st and second gear. Other than that it was still moving without problems last I had it together. I'm sure if a stock tranny tune was in my truck, the tranny would be toast in a matter of weeks, if not days.