EFI 351 Cleveland into Gen 1?

I've been tossing around the ideas as to what V8 I should swap into my '92, now that I have some money coming in (not a fortune, but enough to start gathering parts and building some stuff).

Originally I was deciding between the more traditional 302 or the 351W. Then I started thinking about a 351C... with 302 EFI bolted on it.

Possible? Crazy? Any clues as to what a PITA this could/would be, or where to begin research? Not a whole lot of 351C swap info coming up in the search...

Any and all opinions welcome.

351 has been done a few times.
Its a much tighter fit then the 302, more notching required at heater box and possible steering shaft/brake booster issues. The oil pan is another interesting area of concern.

It has been done and discussed here, take a look around some more

Yes it has. A 351 WINDSOR. 351 Cleveland is a whole different animal.

I did not know that, thanks!
I have seen a 460 in a Bronco II, so the answer (as usual) is that with enough determination, know how and money ANYTHING is possible with these trucks

Easy conversion? NO
the SBF isnt even an easy conversion, but it does fit similar to factory when said and done.
Anything larger then a SBF is going to be a bear, unless of course you can fabricate a custom steering setup, engine cradle, notch frame rails for exhaust. etc etc

Oh
351C
I'm in. I say do it. The 4r70w and c6 have a very similar bolt pattern IIRC

Making it EFI and dealing with many things would be very hard. Decide how much trouble you want it to be, because the 302 is far easier, and the 351W is not much harder.

The flexplate balance weight is different, 157 tooth count and 28oz. weight. The distributor is a little different, a different gear would be needed to use a 351W distributor. Many other things, go into some of the Cleveland forum areas to see what others have done. The Cleveland was my first engine, I know it well. Good luck,

why not do a 302 stroked to 347?

That will fit easy with only 4 fewer cubes!

And excuse me for my ignorance but I though the only difference between the windsor and the clevland was the canted valves?

Am I wrong.

edelbrock has released some heads and an intake manifold, to basically build a BOSS 351c. if i was looking at a v8 swap, no doubt id go that route. (or buy back my 429SCJ i sold a few years back)

wish I had a super cobra jet.

seth2472006 said:

why not do a 302 stroked to 347?

That will fit easy with only 4 fewer cubes!

And excuse me for my ignorance but I though the only difference between the windsor and the clevland was the canted valves?

Am I wrong.

Click to expand...

It's actually about the same size as a 302 because of the shorter deck. Not exactly, but still pretty close.

Block is different, stronger and can be drilled for 4 bolt mains. Heads are different... it's really a whole other beast. Don't need the expense of a stroker kit if I just start out with a 351ci. Also, if I really wanted to go bigger, the 351c can bore out and stroke to 393/408/418/426ci. Nobody has ever done this swap before, and that interests me. Plus I like the sound the Cleveland makes.

A 347 is a great option, but still really expensive to build unless I found one in nice shape used. It's still on the table if I can't get hold of the swap parts I need for the 351c. Still researching it...

The 302 has an 8.200" block deck height, the Cleveland is 9.48", just under the Windsor 9.52" deck height. A Cleveland would have a lot of size issue to fit, the only thing which makes it more reasonable is the old Explorer space. Many 351W swaps have been done, you should look very hard for those to get ideas about clearance issues.

The Cleveland was the best smallblock head ever made, period. It did have serious exhaust port issues though, Nascar heads fixed that. Other than the race level Nascar version heads, there is almost nothing for aftermarket parts for a Cleveland. The best solution for serious street power for a Cleveland now, is to use Windsor heads and special intakes. All of that leaves you to basically keep the engine near stock(heads), working with cams and intake, compression.

I'd do that 351C only if it was about being different, not for actual performance or efficiency. A 302 based engine is very easy to install, and with OBDII fuel injection can be made to give big power. Regards,

I hear ya on the "being different" part as I wanted the same thing for my swap. I now believe however that you can be different, but practical as well. It is so true when they say estimate your budget then x2. My budget went out the window long before the swap as done.
Try to consider newer engines for the swap for availability and performance parts upgrades. The best swap on a long term basis is a full swap from a donor vehicle. Mismatching parts from many different vehicles and companies can be a real head scratcher.
Also, look into full size trucks for inspiration. The 4.2 V6, 351Windsor, 302 are all good engines with the windsor familly of small blocks being the most upgradeable of them all. Yes, they are the most popular, but that is simply the reason there is so much support for them. You can still be different with these swaps. Use your imagination. Twin turbo, supercharge, ram air etc.

Good luck

i think you should do it, is it a 2V or 4V cleavland?

the 2V have a lot of low end power and torque whick would be great for an explorer

the cleavland is wider than a windsor so keep that in mind, they are almost (physically) as big as a big block ford

as for fitment issues you might check and see if anyone has ever used a 351 Modified, i believe they share the same block as the cleavland, or they are atleast comparable in physical size

atistang said:

i think you should do it, is it a 2V or 4V cleavland?

the 2V have a lot of low end power and torque whick would be great for an explorer

the cleavland is wider than a windsor so keep that in mind, they are almost (physically) as big as a big block ford

as for fitment issues you might check and see if anyone has ever used a 351 Modified, i believe they share the same block as the cleavland, or they are atleast comparable in physical size

Click to expand...

Skip the 351M (modified), that is a tall deck(10.2") block. It's the same length as the Cleveland, but much taller and heavier. That is about the same size as a bog block. The heads on a Modified are 2V Cleveland heads.

subscribing

i am in between a 302 and a 351W i believe.. and possibility of stroking a 302.

Hi Guy's,

Just joined up.
I've done many EFI conversions including 351C's although none into Explorers. Here's the one i built for my Falcon ute...
The block deck height differences are in fact;
302 = 8.2"
351w = 9.5"(9.480" for '69-'70 blocks)
351C = 9.2"
So in fact a cleveland is slightly shorter, it's just the big canted valve heads that make them look big. The fact that they have exhaust port faces parallel to the side of the block actually helps with header fitment when it comes to conversions. I have used stock 5.0 EECIV on clevelands with great success. Just use a 351W distributor from an F-series and fit a cleveland gear or use an EFI 460 distributor and drop it straight in. I'd use an EFI intake like a TFS-R or Edelbrock Victor 5.8EFI 351w manifold welded and machined to suit http://www.detomaso.nu/~thomast/efi/
One way to combine the benefits of cleveland heads with the benefits of the windsor are to fit CHI heads to a 351W(or 302) block. Scroll down on this page http://www.chiheads.com.au/3v_185cc.php and you'll see that the 185's are available with windsor style accessory bolt patterns. This means your stock 5.0 style serpentine drive will bolt on. Btw that cleveland I built for my ute evolved into a CHI 185 headed version with hyd roller conversion for a nice 380hp at the tyres without going over 6000rpm.

Cheers,
Pete.

Welcome Pete, good to hear stories about Clevelands, my first car and engines.

Did that have a custom cam, and is it a 302 or 352? I ask because custom cammed Ford smallblocks can now make 1.2-1.5hp/ci without much trouble, with Windsor TFS TW or High Port heads. I love the Cleveland heads, the valve covers are great(flat top), and built right they fly.

I hope to build a stroker Windsor/Cleveland some day, for my 73 Ranchero.

Post more pictures, the stories too. Regards,

Thanks Don,

It was a Comp cam with 230/230 @ .050 .612"/.612" with 110 lobe sep.

Here's the engine with modded Offy intake with spacers for the high ports of the 185 heads..


Here it is with the new CHI intake. This will now go into an '85 Mustang belonging to my friend.


Here I am frying the hides with it


I haven't actually got an Explorer or Ranger because we only ever got V6's in our early ones here in Oz and the mod powered ones are still too expensive for me.... Especially when you consider I can't leave anything well enough alone
I have '93 Range Rover Vogue that will get a 351w/AODE combo to replace that silly buick rubbish that's in it. Searching for AODE info brought me to this site in fact.

You want a 4R70W from a 98-01 302 Explorer if you can get them. Any 98+ 4R70W other than a mod motor version will work. Use a Baumann controller and a car valve body for the "J" mods of the VB.

Thanks Don,

AODE's are pretty much unobtainium in Australia and the dumbass importers only seem to bring AOD's in because, and I quote; "they are better because they aren't electronic"
Bahhaa haa haa haaa haaaarrrrr!
I would probably buy a built one straight from the U.S. but I'm not sure who to trust for this job? Unless you know where one of these '98-01 jobs are for sale? Even so it's probabaly better to buy one already built.