New fluid in high mileage transmissions

[chrisbytez]

Hello all, new here to the forum. I searched this forum specifically because I am dealing with this very issue. I have a high mileage explorer 02 xlt v6, never changed the tranny fluid, mostly out of laziness. I just took it in to have all the fluids changed, thinking that it was about time I do something preventive before a larger problem arises. Low and behold as soon as I drove it out of the parking lot of my mechanic, the tranny began to slip, took a sec to and and rev to engage.
Obviously there is some truth to the logic of the old oil holding things together. I think that replacing the the old fluid just help to uncover an underlying problem that hopefully will be easy to remedy.

If anyone has any advice on how to proceed with this problem. I would greatly appreciate it.

Chris

[BrooklynBay]

Welcome to this forum! Do you know what type of fluid he added? You could add Lubegard friction modifier to it.

[pubenemy]

You can continue to babble about people with perpetuating ignorant myths, bad logic etc. But I've seen it myself over the years every time Myself or a family member did a fluid flush/change in a high mileage vehicle that worked fine. It never lasted more than a week or two after... Thats my real world experience and I wont do it anymore.

[ranger7ltr]

I have a 99 Sport with no maintenance history and 151k on it when I bought it... I had to drop the pan to remove the sludge and replace the oil pump that was dead...I have to drop the tank and flush it out due to 10 gallons of fuel being left in it for 2+ years...The tranny fluid smelled like a weird solvent and I dropped the pan, replaced the filter, then proceeded to remove the rest of the fluid in the system... I also installed an auxillary cooler and spin-on filter...

I now have 155k on it after 3 months and I still need to change the intermediate servos due to a 3-4 flare and the low/reverse orings due to slow engagement of reverse...

These symptoms were there before the change and they continue to be there currently...

I, and others, still contend that the tranny was ready to die if changing the fluid kills it..There is no magic bullet, or varnish holding things together inside the housing...Perhaps the clean fluid removes dirt in the clutches. bands, servos, and vb and cause problems with a new level of lubricity...If this is the case that tranny was on life support anyway...

This is similar to saying that going from regular motor oil to synthetic will harm the engine...It will clean a significance amount of dirt and hardened deposits from inside the unit but if this action caused an engine to knock or lock up it was well on its way to doing so as well..

But I also would like to see the myth of not changing fluids in an automatic tranny go bye bye...

[chrisbytez]

Originally Posted by BrooklynBay

Welcome to this forum! Do you know what type of fluid he added? You could add Lubegard friction modifier to it.

I believe it was merc V what ever the recommended fluid is. I never really driven the car all that hard, basically its an easy daily driver. funny part is I'm getting ready to take it for a trip to Az. so I figured I had better do some preventive maintenance before the big trip.

[rumpledoll]

I have a 2002 V6 4.0L Eddie Bauer with 64,000 miles that I purchased new. A few months ago, at about 62,000 miles I decided to change the transmission fluid. Bottom line: no issues at all and the transmission shifts very smooth and well.

The fluid change happened in two steps, because I rethought my plans and ended up wasting some money. The first change was a oil pan drain and refill for which I manged to get out about 4 quarts of fluid by draining the pan and then starting the engine for about 45 seconds and redraining the pan. The fluid I used was the old formula Mobil 1 synthetic ATF.

I soon regretted not doing the job "right" so I purchased a case (12Q) of Schaeffer's ALL-Tran synthetic ATF and a transmission filter and pan gasket. I dropped the pan, replaced the filter and performed the flush through the cooling lines of 12 quarts of ATF. Again the transmssion works very well and I have had zero issues.

I did disconnect the battery so the ECU would forget the adaptive settings. It takes some time for the ECU to get the shift points correct and until it does the transmission can flare badly and otherwise behave slightly odd. This does not last long at all and happened on both fluid fills.

Rumple

[chrisbytez]

I took my car back to my mechanic, he said there was some air that escaped when open up the tranny, I'm thinking he just did'nt fill it all the way up when he changed it. tranny is fine now, no slipping or any other issues.

[BrooklynBay]

Thanks for the update! I also think that it was low on fluid.

[dallasmef]

Yep

[mattbreaksthings]

dad owned my '97 explorer since 1999 with about 29K miles on it and changed the fluid and filter in the transmission every year .. going on 247,000 miles without a hitch.
its amazing how a little proper TLC goes a long way.

[Dryrlynt]

I'm reading this, and I'm wondering if I should change the fluid in my tranny or not. I have a 120,000 mile Explorer. I'm hearing from a lot of sources (even mechs) who are telling me not to, but logic says, change the fluid. I don't know if the fluid has ever been changed in the truck or not, I got it at 90k miles and I don't know the maintance history of the truck. Should I change the fluid?

[gijoecam]

Every 30,000 miles, drop the pan, clean out the gunk, replace the filter, and top it off. Nothing more is necessary. NOT doing it is a sure-fire way to shorten the life of the trans.

[TekMan05]

I'll throw in my transmission story. So take it how you want. I'm just gonna tell it like it is. Back in Dec of '07 I had my Transmission flushed at the dealership at around 122,000 miles. Well go to about 8 months later early August around 132,000 miles and I begin having Tranny issues. Slipping and burnt fluid(Partially from driving it on a faulty Trans). When I took it to the shop they discovered the 3rd gear and O/D was gone. So I don't know if this can be related to that flushed but it is something to think about!

[High_Order1]

Ok,

far be it for me to interject some reason into this thread, but...


Neither side has really presented a convincing argument. One side is saying, nyah, it does. The other responds, nyah nyah, it don't.


In fact, I kind of think the people that say this is an issue has presented a slightly better case, in the fact that at least they are offering direct, anecdotal evidence of an issue.

And, until I see something from a peer - reviewed or nonbiased source, I am not completely sure that the 'new detergent' theory doesn't hold a little weight.

HOWEVER,

instead of simply arguing back and forth, I'd like to present some ideas on why you might be getting a new problem after a transmission servicing procedure. Of course, this isn't all inclusive, or necessarily correct in all instances, but its' offered here as food for thought.

improper part for application

Hey, all this stuff looks the same to me. All it has to be is a teeny bit off, right? Especially considering they routinely make changes in a model year.

checkball not in correct raceway

Wouldn't take much for this to happen. Or, maybe one gets stuck to the separator gasket, and never goes back in.

improperly installed assembly / parts


Not everything fits only one way. You think a shops' gonna admit they put your fetzer valve in backwards? (they're all ball bearing now, btw). Hell no, they're not - it was the fluids' fault. But we can fix it, credit card please....

bolt(s) not torqued to spec causing fluid blow by


I have read several places where those vb bolts have worked loose. Considering all the psi in a automatic trans system, half a crank might be just enough to kill a new install.

bolts not torqued to spec causing part warpage

Lotsa heat, right? If you can warp a 50 pound cylinder head, I guarantee you can warp anything in an automatic transmission.

air in transmission

I don't know of a way to prefill all those races and chambers. So, it might take a while to get the bubbles loose, right?

lack of prime in pump, accumulator, etc.

It could happen, right?

improperly refilled / low fluid level in transmission

Hey, if not enough goes back in...

existing part damaged during disassembly or reassembly causing new issue

For instance, maybe one pin on the electrical connector gets bent or has just enough corrosion to make an intermittent short.

operator mistaking PCM relearn cycle as new issue

On electrically controlled transmissions, whenever the keep alive memory gets cleared, like when you pull the negative (you NEVER pull the positive), the PCM needs a few cycles to relearn everything. Until it figures it out, there's going to be some harsh shifting and other similar issues.

improper prep causing premature failure of installed part

You used a wood chisel on that gasket residue again, didn't you? lol

introduction of contaminants during service causing new issue

This could be a big one. I imagine with some of the orifices I've seen, it wouldn't take a pinhead sized piece of shop lint, or maybe you dislodged something else, and bam. New owner concern. I am betting a little occlusion in the pipe to the radiator could overheat the trans, right?

unintentional adjustment of item causing new issue

Maybe you bumped a band locknut.

item reached mean time between failure point unrelated to current repair.

Everything breaks eventually. Lets say part A fails at 90,000 miles. You do a fluid change at 89,000. Part A is going to fail at 90, it doesn't matter what you did or didn't do, its' just the way it is.

There could be others, thats' all I could think of on the drive into work. Maybe there are others, but every one of those potentially could cause the same issues. Flaming and other meanness welcome.... lol


Shawn

[High_Order1]

oh!

improper fluid used in refill


I've read a lot where these transmissions can only deal with certain fluids and not others. Hey, if the factory can get it wrong, what about the neighborhood oil jockey??


-Shawn

[Jon94]

Hey, long-time lurker, occasional poster here. I fully believe trans fluid should be changed regularly, even on high mileage units. I think the myth that it will damage comes from situations like this:
Some guy buys a car and drives it a long time (100k+ miles) and never changes the fluid.
Eventually, he starts having trans problems, sees that the fluid is brown and smelly, and THEN thinks “hmm maybe I should change the fluid.”
By this time, the damage is already done, and new fluid will not help his situation.
A few weeks later, his trans finally takes a dump and he assumes it must have been the new fluid that caused it, when it was actually his lack of maintenance all along.

If a trans is still working fine, then new fluid will not cause issues. But if it’s already acting up, it’s too late.

My Explorer’s trans service history goes like this:
My father had the fluid changed once at 65k miles.
After my father passed and I became in charge of vehicle maintenance, I had the trans flushed at 135k.
I dropped the pan, changed the filter, and refilled at about 143k.
It now has 148k and still shifts perfectly.

I already did the first pan-drop and refill on my 06 Ranger at 22k miles. All my vehicles will receive similar treatment. I firmly believe that regular service is the key to making a trans last.

[TheJackal]

I dropped the pan on my transmission a while back. The fluid is a bit brown as my dad has the "don't change it until it slips" mentality.

No problems here... cleared up the tc shudder I had and operated smoothly.

It is time to change it again tho.

[rhauf]

I change the trans fluid on every vehicle i aquire (or work on for friends etc) the trans fluid always looks nasty (original) and i havn't had a problem from changing it. i think it's a myth, it's amazing the myths people will come up with for the silliest reasons.

my '93 explorer has 201k on it. original transmission. i changed the fluid about 10,000 miles ago (its first fluid change ever i think) and it's been fine since. shifts great.

lets make up a myth on not changing oil.. hey i know, if you put in new oil with detergents, the detergents will remove the old oil sludge from warn clearances and cause you to loose oil pressure and you're engine will die... now how silly does that sound?

[SysIntegr8tor]

I put Dx/Merc in my 97 5R55E and it calls for Mercon V.
Now it has a pretty high 2-3 shift rpm surge and won't go into reverse when it is hot. I haven't checked to see if the vent tube is plugged (I changed filter & gasket because it sprung a leak)/ but it seems to still be getting hot.
Do I put it on the ODB2 scanner? How should I check the temp? I didn't add the drain plug(I was in a too big a hurry) Ow I need to change the fluid.? Yes?

[George W]

I would say you need to do a full flush now that you mixed fluids! That's to bad as you created a lot more work for yourself!! What you need for fluid in that tranny is Mercon V.. George