What makes a grinding noise like a bad wheel bearing other than a wheel bearing?

Got a weird one here. The truck is a 2002 Explorer XLT 2wd, and it has 170,000 miles. At around or about 130,000 miles or so, we had a bad bearing on the Right Front. We drove on it for about a year and the noise got worse slowly over time, mostly on any left turns at any speed above 20mph. Eventually, the grinding was just too much to bear and I replaced the wheel hub with one by Timkin. Problem fixed.

Now fast forward to this year, we have the grinding noise again from the same area of the truck. Just like before, the grinding has gotten worse over time, and it is now at the point where I have to do something, because the "Wife Acceptance Factor" has already been surpassed. Again, the noise is much louder on left turns and almost vanishes on right turns.

- I already replaced the Right Front bearing again, and it did not change the grinding noise one bit. I think I may have replaced a perfectly good bearing with a new one, but that is ok with me, as I am sure I will need the other one sometime in the future.

- The inner Brake Pad on the Right front is worn completely out, while the outer pad looks fine. The noise sounds like it could be a dragging rotor, but the noise is not any worse at all if I apply the brakes.

- The noise correlates to vehicle speed, and not driveline speed (tried it in neutral), and is not related to braking (noise only present when braking and turning slightly to the left simultaneously)

The upper ball joints on both sides have busted boots, and I plan on changing them this weekend. However, I do not believe they are the source of the grinding noise.

What else could it be? A bent spindle? Terrible alignment? Wheel bearing on the left front (even though there is no noise while making right turns at speed)?

I am a DIYer, and I will be the only one doing work on the truck, but I am open to taking it to the local tire store here in Athens, GA to have them check alignment and maybe a little diagnosis work.

The noise correlates to vehicle speed, and not driveline speed (tried it in neutral), and is not related to braking (noise only present when braking and turning slightly to the left simultaneously)

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Contradiction ? Please explain this better?

JCat said:

Contradiction ? Please explain this better?

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Absolutely.

What I am saying here is that the pitch of the grinding noise only changes when the vehicle's speed changes, and that it is much more noticeable when turning to the left.


-If I put the vehicle in neutral, and rev it up while I am rolling down the road, the grinding noise is not any different than if it was in gear. What I am saying here is that we can rule out a bent driveshaft or any other driveline problem.

If I apply the brakes while the vehicle is steering straight there is barely any noise. If I apply the brakes while turning slightly to the left, the noise is there just as if I didn't have the brakes. Here I am saying that applying the brakes does not seem to change when or how the noise occurs.

The noise is much louder and apparent on left turns, and only barely noticeable when going straight and almost non-existant when turning slightly to the right.

Could it be bad tie-rods? I've never had them go bad on me before and I am not familiar with their symptoms.

jayton said:

- The inner Brake Pad on the Right front is worn completely out, while the outer pad looks fine. The noise sounds like it could be a dragging rotor, but the noise is not any worse at all if I apply the brakes.

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Looks like you need to do a brake job on the front anyway so I would start/continue there.

I'd take it in for a diagnosis. Get a written estimate of what they think is wrong, then fix it yourself. It'll be worth the few dollars (if not free) to eliminate guesswork.

Mike

mikeinri said:

I'd take it in for a diagnosis. Get a written estimate of what they think is wrong, then fix it yourself. It'll be worth the few dollars (if not free) to eliminate guesswork.

Mike

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Good thinking! I usually use the throw money at it 'till it goes away method. mikeiri's method is the way to go. But the front brakes do need to be done anyway...........

it could very well be another wheel bearing, the nut may have not been torqued down fully, or loosened off a tad over time. (causing premature failure)

jack up the wheel off the ground

grab the tire on left and right side like your going to pull it off, twist in and out (like your turning the wheel) is there any play?
do the same on the top and bottom. you can check tie rods wheel bearings and ball-joints like this.

make sure that your brake caliper sliders are not ceased up, (looks like it as only one side of the pad is worn out)

check if the dust deflector is hitting the rotor.

lift the entire front end up and get someone to turn the tires (by hand), and lay there and see if you can hear where its coming from.

check for play in the CV's

is it a high pitched or low pitched noise?

I agree, those are all potential winners...

I ran into trouble recently with a dust shield, forgot to mention that. Unbelievable grinding noise. Of course, that was caused by a mechanic, but that's another story...

Mike

Equnoxe said:

it could very well be another wheel bearing, the nut may have not been torqued down fully, or loosened off a tad over time. (causing premature failure)

jack up the wheel off the ground

grab the tire on left and right side like your going to pull it off, twist in and out (like your turning the wheel) is there any play?
do the same on the top and bottom. you can check tie rods wheel bearings and ball-joints like this.

make sure that your brake caliper sliders are not ceased up, (looks like it as only one side of the pad is worn out)

check if the dust deflector is hitting the rotor.

lift the entire front end up and get someone to turn the tires (by hand), and lay there and see if you can hear where its coming from.

check for play in the CV's

is it a high pitched or low pitched noise?

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I would have to say it is a low pitched noise. It is not a squeal like the sound a bad u-joint makes.

Thank-you very much for the suggestions. I will be checking out the dust deflector and caliper slide pins.

I grabbed the wheel & tire by holding it at 6&12 and then again at 9&3 like you mentioned, and there is not any play. I am also unable to reproduce the sound by spinning the wheel & tire by hand. I don't think it is the wheel bearing. Also, it is 2wd, so there is no CV or axle nut to worry about over or under-tightening.

I think I will go ahead and order 4 rotors and pads for both front & back, since they all look a little worn. Time to get this vehicle back above the 'WAF.'

Would it be ok to leave the dust shields off just for testing purposes?

yea, i think they are more there for if you take it off road so that things don't get rammed into the brake system, and to keep liquids off the to prevent glazing.

what speed does it happen at? is it more of a droning noise at higher speeds? (60+?)

try rotating your tires to the back. sometimes a defective tire can make a weird noise.

check the U-Joints in the drive shaft.

im still leaning towards the bearing, symptoms fit it perfectly.



hell just rip the whole truck apart

Equnoxe said:

what speed does it happen at? is it more of a droning noise at higher speeds? (60+?)

try rotating your tires to the back. sometimes a defective tire can make a weird noise.

check the U-Joints in the drive shaft.

im still leaning towards the bearing, symptoms fit it perfectly.



hell just rip the whole truck apart

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It happens at speeds as low as 10 mph+ when I am rocking the steering wheel back and forth when driving slow in the neighborhood, only when the wheel is turned to the left.

When on jack stands, I am unable to spin the wheel fast enough and push against the bottom of the tire at the same time to be able to hear anything.

I have ruled out the u-joint or drive train: While on jack-stands, I put the truck in drive, and the rear wheels spun to about 25mph. I then took my bicycle front tire and pushed force on the sidewall of the truck tire just as there would be force when turning left. There was no noise at all. It has to be in the front.

I may not have made in clear in my original post, but I replaced the bearing just yesterday, and there was no difference in the grinding sound. Even if this was another bad bearing that I just put in, it would take a long time of driving on it bad to get it to the level of grinding I am experiencing. These things get much worse over a period of time. Both the old bearing I just took out and the new bearing I just put in just has got to be good.

I am just going to do the maintenance that is needed right now: upper ball joints, new pads and rotors all the way around, sway bar bushing (it's squeaky on speed bumps) , inspect the right front caliper piston and slide pins. Then check dust shields.

Sometimes I wish a part would just go ahead and break so I know what to replace. This one is a little more difficult to figure.

We'll see what happens then. It looks like Autozone has a good price on rotors, but the online sites like rockauto have much better deals on pads. This may have to wait a couple of days while new pads are shipped in.

jayton said:

Sometimes I wish a part would just go ahead and break so I know what to replace. This one is a little more difficult to figure.

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I feel your pain. In fact I think we all feel your pain! If we all had a nickel every time we said that........... The good thing is there is a whole bunch of guys on here that know what they doing and everyone is willing to help out! God I love this forum. I hope you get it fixed man!!

In Reply To:
" jayton
Wannabe Elite Explorer
Jefferson, GA
02 XLT V8"

I have this exact same problem! (The sound best resembles that of a baseball card in bicycle spokes.)
My Explorer is also a 2002 XLT V6 4.0L and has 110,000 Mil. on it. I've had two tire shops look at this issue with no conclusive evidence that anything is wrong with the vehicle.
Your detailed description is the best I've heard anyone else ever explain it. I too, noticed that the sound starts around 20mph and fades in and out about every 10-15mph in speed change as well.
"The Unholy Grail" speed of annoyance is at 45mph (on my truck). I was mentally theorizing the possibility of the relationship between wheel size/ speed/ and tire type/ to sync at 45pmh making it the frequency of the noise ( AKA Phase Velocity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase_velocity ) This "theory" according to practice in the world of physics; would account for why the noise goes away and then, returns with the differences in speed.
I can't find the source of the issue however, I'm curious as to see if, a new set of tires will fix this issue. The current set are the original BF Goodrich Rugged Trail T/A 's ( http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/tire-selector/category/family-suv/rugged-trail-t-a/tire-details ) mounted on the factory 17" aluminum rims. They are also worn and are in need of being replaced within the next 3mo. :exp:

I would love to know if anyone has learned what causes this and how they have fixed it!!!

i think it has something to do with the breaks.

good luck and keep us updated.

Thanks.
I'll continue to look into it. If I ever figure it out, I'll be sure to post what causes it and how to fix it to the best of my ability.

Solved!

Equnoxe said:

im still leaning towards the bearing, symptoms fit it perfectly.

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Well Equnoxe, you were right. Your post got me thinking, the symptoms do fit perfectly, which is why I bought the new wheel bearing to begin with. However, it is not the Right-Front bearing that was the problem. It was the LEFT-FRONT bearing!

I was unable to tell it was bad by spinning or rocking the tire. However, I figured since I have this bearing I replaced on with a new one from the Right-Front sitting here, why not try putting it on the other side? So when I took the old bearing off the Left-Front, I could tell right away it was the bad one by spinning it in my hand.

The lesson to be learned from my experience is: the 'rule of thumb' that says grinding on right turns is a left bearing, grinding on left turns is the right bearing, simply is not true. Just because all the weight of the vehicle is being thrown to right side, doesn't mean that the left bearing isn't the one grinding, while it still works smooth on right turns. In the situation I experienced, I am guessing that the problem could be that only the inner race goes bad while the outer race is still good. Who knows?

This problem has helped me identify other problems on the truck, though, and now I have a laundry list of things to repair:
-Replace front pads and rotors
-Replace upper ball joints on both sides
-Replace Sway bar bushing
-Replace Tie-rod end on both sides (just now saw the boot on the left side is destroyed)

Thanks to all of you that posted replies and helped me figure this one out! Persistence and patience pays!

Dobermann said:

In Reply To:
Your detailed description is the best I've heard anyone else ever explain it. I too, noticed that the sound starts around 20mph and fades in and out about every 10-15mph in speed change as well.

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I have to be careful with my explanations. I sometimes get a little long winded and describe too much about what I am feeling, which doesn't always translate well in my typing. I meant to say that the noise starts out as low as 10mph, and is present at about the same volume up to any speed. It doesn't fade in and out at different increments. The only thing that is changing with the speeds is the frequency (or pitch) of the noise. All of that assuming that I am turning the steering wheel slightly to the left.

Also, it wasn't really a ticking noise like cards in bike tires, but more of a grinding noise, like from the sound gravel makes, or like the ice dispenser on a refrigerator that is set to 'crushed' ice.

ya bearings do weird things. My wifes aunt's 00 mountaineer had a bearing go out. Took it for a ride with her and she said it makes a crazy grinding noise. Was quiet for about 10 minutes at 55mph, slowed down and made a turn and all hell broke loose. Jacked up the front and i could move the wheel a 1/2 inch...


My 04 just makes a grinding noise at 40mph. Doesnt get louder turning left or right. I believe the noise is coming from the front left. So i will start there ..





glad you got it all figured out!

you welcome