Bad Headgasket?

dsturch1 · 10-11-2010, 03:50 PM

Alright guys, as much as I am hoping this isn't the case - I think I may have a bad headgasket. Can anyone help me by either trying to confirm this or deny it?? I will start out with, I have a 96 Explorer XLT v8 5.0 AWD with around 230k miles on it. The symptoms I have noticed that lead me to believe it is a headgasket are the following:

Losing Coolant
Temp Gauge Up Running Hot
Heat Feels Like It May Be Hotter Than Usual

The issue is, I noticed the other day the temp gauge was up. I had recently swapped out gauge clusters, so I got another one thinking maybe it was the temp gauge. This was not the case - both gauges said the truck is running hot. The other issues is with the truck losing coolant - I noticed the other day that the overflow reservoir was dry when I was doing an oil change - I added a quart of coolant and and it had since gone down. So last night I topped off the overflow reservoir, it took right around 1 gallon of coolant - prior to going to bed last night I went out for a drive and noticed I lost about half of the coolant reservoir. I am not sure if perhaps this could be from something else, or if it seems like this may be burning out quicker than from a headgasket? I haven't noticed any leaks or anything from anywhere else so I am not sure. The other issue that lead me to believe that it may be a HG problem was that my heat feels like it is hotter than usual. I may just be imagining this but just something I thought I noticed...who knows at this point

If anyone could point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance

*ahodges* · 10-11-2010, 04:01 PM

well, I have a 4.0 so I wont be incredibly helpful with this but I have a few thoughts. Just because the gauge reads high doesn't mean that its correct, the temp sensor could be bad.

Another thought is that i'm sure you hadn't checked the coolant for a while before the oil change so the radiator could also have been down a ways and as you cycle the system between hot when its running and then when its cooling down, if there is space in the radiator it will suck the coolant out of it and make it seem like you are loosing more than you really are. It could be that the system is catching up since the resevoir was dry. *this could also explain why it was running hot and/or the heat from the vents feeling hotter.

Where the coolant is going? - There a a dozen places you could be loosing it. First check to see if water pump or hose is leaking. If you can't visibly see any loss of coolant, then it probably is internal. But it could be the intake manifold gasket or head gasket.

IF you are loosing that much internally then normally it wouldn't be running as good as normal. Also, you could check the smell of the exhaust, if it smells sweet (like coolant) then i would say head gasket.

I don't think the 5.0 is known for head gasket problems so that isn't my first guess.

swetrid · 10-11-2010, 04:10 PM

I would suspect you have a coolant leak at timing cover or thermostat housing/hoses. 5.0 do not have head gasket problems. Ahodges is probably correect in saying the radiator level was low an by adding to the overflow coolant will be sucked into the radiator so level will drop.

*Dan Whitaker* · 10-11-2010, 04:10 PM

If it was the head gasket you would see white smoke coming out of the tail pipe. Is your oil milky looking or oil level over full?

dsturch1 · 10-11-2010, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahodges

well, I have a 4.0 so I wont be incredibly helpful with this but I have a few thoughts. Just because the gauge reads high doesn't mean that its correct, the temp sensor could be bad.

Another thought is that i'm sure you hadn't checked the coolant for a while before the oil change so the radiator could also have been down a ways and as you cycle the system between hot when its running and then when its cooling down, if there is space in the radiator it will suck the coolant out of it and make it seem like you are loosing more than you really are. It could be that the system is catching up since the resevoir was dry. *this could also explain why it was running hot and/or the heat from the vents feeling hotter.

Where the coolant is going? - There a a dozen places you could be loosing it. First check to see if water pump or hose is leaking. If you can't visibly see any loss of coolant, then it probably is internal. But it could be the intake manifold gasket or head gasket.

IF you are loosing that much internally then normally it wouldn't be running as good as normal. Also, you could check the smell of the exhaust, if it smells sweet (like coolant) then i would say head gasket.

I don't think the 5.0 is known for head gasket problems so that isn't my first guess.

The exhaust does not smell at all, and the truck isnt smoking at all. I had checked that first thing this morning after running it, and I also looked and smelled while I stopped at Wawa to get coffee and didn't notice anything. Is it possible that this could be a combination of a thermostat issue, combined with the low coolant level? Also, I looked...and visibly from underneath, and above the motor I could not see any leaks at all. There wasnt anywhere that was really covered or coated in coolant, so I don't see where else it could be going. Regarding the truck running, it doesn't seem to be running any different than normal. It still picks up / accelerates / starts up and idles just as if it were any other day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swetrid

I would suspect you have a coolant leak at timing cover or thermostat housing/hoses. 5.0 do not have head gasket problems. Ahodges is probably correect in saying the radiator level was low an by adding to the overflow coolant will be sucked into the radiator so level will drop.

I am going to stop at Advance Auto on my way home from work and pickup a couple gallons of coolant and keep topping it off tonight as I see it dropping. Is it also possible that maybe there is air in the system now from it being low that is not self purging?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Whitaker

If it was the head gasket you would see white smoke coming out of the tail pipe. Is your oil milky looking or oil level over full?

Like I said before, I did not notice any smoking out of the exhaust - no additional or extra condensation - no sweet odor or anything like a typical HG problem. Also, when I changed the oil the other day - there was no issue with the oil being a different color. The oil was just as black as any other dirty oil thats come out of it - no "chocolate milk" lubrication as my dad refers to it lol. Thanks again guys for all of the help.

*Dan Whitaker* · 10-11-2010, 04:46 PM

It could be the water pump. There is a weep hole in it. When you dirve it could be leaking just enough you can't smell or see it.

dsturch1 · 10-11-2010, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Whitaker

It could be the water pump. There is a weep hole in it. When you dirve it could be leaking just enough you can't smell or see it.

Well I just ran outside to my truck real quick on my break and I checked the overflow - it is right around where it was last night if not maybe a little bit lower. The radiator however was full and it was not burning through the coolant. Any suggestions from here where to start? Thermostat? Water Pump?

dsturch1 · 10-11-2010, 05:56 PM

After just driving home from work, the coolant level is still around the same in the overflow tank. So it doesn't really appear that I am losing coolant anymore....thoughts? Thanks again everyone!

windsors03cobra · 10-11-2010, 07:39 PM

*Thoughts*

You were low on coolant and caught it before it went dry as mentioned on an engine of that mileage any of the gasket thats come in contact with coolant could be eroded and leaking a small amount over time it adds up and we end up with what you had just the other day.
I replaced my thermostat gasket last year as it was seeping just a tiny amount and did so for a very long time. I can still smell a small amount of "coolant smell" from time to time and suspect the timing cover may seep some.
Small leaks can just be burned off the hot engine block making them harder to notice and or detect. A smell of coolant is usually a sure sign of some type of leak.
I dont know maybe mine isn't leaking after all as I have not replaced any coolant in a long time then again I have not checked it in awhile either.

I think with 202k on my water pump I am on borrowed time. You may be too.
Winter is forthcoming I know I need tires among other things, cooling system weaknesses will be exposed soon enough when it hits 12 fricken degrees outside.

dsturch1 · 10-11-2010, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by windsors03cobra

*Thoughts*

You were low on coolant and caught it before it went dry as mentioned on an engine of that mileage any of the gasket thats come in contact with coolant could be eroded and leaking a small amount over time it adds up and we end up with what you had just the other day.
I replaced my thermostat gasket last year as it was seeping just a tiny amount and did so for a very long time. I can still smell a small amount of "coolant smell" from time to time and suspect the timing cover may seep some.
Small leaks can just be burned off the hot engine block making them harder to notice and or detect. A smell of coolant is usually a sure sign of some type of leak.
I dont know maybe mine isn't leaking after all as I have not replaced any coolant in a long time then again I have not checked it in awhile either.

I think with 202k on my water pump I am on borrowed time. You may be too.
Winter is forthcoming I know I need tires among other things, cooling system weaknesses will be exposed soon enough when it hits 12 fricken degrees outside.

Very true, other thing I don't know if I mentioned is that although my coolant level is staying around the same level - the gauge still reads hot. However I do see it fluctuating a little bit as I am driving. Sound like maybe a thermostat that is trying to open but cant? I think that is probably my best place to start as it is also the cheapest item to replace...

windsors03cobra · 10-11-2010, 09:10 PM

Where on the scale is it running ? How much is the needle moving around ?

dsturch1 · 10-11-2010, 09:19 PM

The needle when I first start out cold is right in line, from there as I drive the needle goes up respectively but then goes right up to the hot line, from there it will drop down maybe 1/8 of the way down - enough for the check gauge light to go off...but from there it fluctuates back and forth between those two points.

windsors03cobra · 10-11-2010, 10:54 PM

Eww that does not sound good.

dsturch1 · 10-12-2010, 03:47 AM

What does that sound like it might be?

*ahodges* · 10-12-2010, 07:03 AM

Well since it's still running hot, I would start by replacing thermostat. If that doesn't fix it then I would replace the temp. sensor since those aren't much either. It could be giving you a false reading of hot.

Then after that if the problem still isnt fixed i'd say water pump. If it has 230,000 miles on the original water pump it could easily be bad and that would could also explain the slow loss of coolant.

dsturch1 · 10-12-2010, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahodges

Well since it's still running hot, I would start by replacing thermostat. If that doesn't fix it then I would replace the temp. sensor since those aren't much either. It could be giving you a false reading of hot.

Then after that if the problem still isnt fixed i'd say water pump. If it has 230,000 miles on the original water pump it could easily be bad and that would could also explain the slow loss of coolant.

Sounds good. That is where I will start, and i'll repost and let everyone know. Also, is the temp sensor a PITA to change? Is it right by the stat?

kevinsranger · 10-12-2010, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahodges

Well since it's still running hot, I would start by replacing thermostat. If that doesn't fix it then I would replace the temp. sensor since those aren't much either. It could be giving you a false reading of hot.

Then after that if the problem still isnt fixed i'd say water pump. If it has 230,000 miles on the original water pump it could easily be bad and that would could also explain the slow loss of coolant.

given the amount of miles, also check the freeze out plugs on the block and back of the heads, on my 94 4.0 ohv, the plugs are actually rotting away and forming small leaks thru the rusted freeze plugs. i am just too lazy to change them out.

also you may have air trapped in your cooling system from it being low, resulting in the engine running hot, you need to bleed the system to be sure

*ahodges* · 10-12-2010, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsturch1

Sounds good. That is where I will start, and i'll repost and let everyone know. Also, is the temp sensor a PITA to change? Is it right by the stat?

Im not sure where it is on the 5.0. Usually they arent very hard to change, especially if you are already doing the thermostat. They are always on top of the lower intake manifold and usually close to the thermostat, yes. But there are 2 sensors there. The temp. gauge sensor is the one with a single wire coming out the top. The other one is a temp. sensor for the computer for emissions and such and has a 2 wire connection.

dsturch1 · 10-12-2010, 05:02 PM

Okay, well on my way home from work today as if I wasn't already slightly confused, my explorer decided to start smoking a little. When I got home I let my truck sit for about an hour and a half. I noticed the overflow tank was again empty so I filled it up to the cold fill line, and started the truck. As I let it warm up I stepped on the gas and it looks like it may be smoking white a little...now I don't know if that's because its kind of cool out and the exhaust is hot or if its a HG smoking. Also, after doing so I noticed coolant dripping onto the ground in the front of the truck....what to do now?

The coolant was dripping right down off of the bottom of the radiator and not from the block - which I would presume is a good sign? The overflow is not full so it can't be that letting off, any ideas where to go from here guys?

windsors03cobra · 10-12-2010, 05:46 PM

A good sign ? I guess a radiator is easier to change than a timing cover gasket. A rad costs 20 times as much but maybe you save on labor ?

You've got to try to pinpoint the source of the leak, could it be a hose connection to the rad ? A leaking rad ? A leaking cap ?
The smoking. How much smoke ? Got to be pretty cool to smoke in the afternoon in October, were other cars smoking ?
I've smelled exhaust and even tasted the drippings for traces of coolant in a pinch.
Pressure testing the cooling system would be a good start to finding it, rent the tester at autozone for a 75 dollar refundable deposit. Pump it up and watch it bleed.
Pretty sure the temp sender is real near the thermostat boss and make sure you get the sender and not sensor.

Good luck and hope the 5.0 makes it out alive.

10-11-2010, 03:50 PM	#1
dsturch1 Wannabe Elite Explorer Pennington, NJ 03 4.0 XLT & 98 5.0 XLT Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 74 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Bad Headgasket? Alright guys, as much as I am hoping this isn't the case - I think I may have a bad headgasket. Can anyone help me by either trying to confirm this or deny it?? I will start out with, I have a 96 Explorer XLT v8 5.0 AWD with around 230k miles on it. The symptoms I have noticed that lead me to believe it is a headgasket are the following: Losing Coolant Temp Gauge Up Running Hot Heat Feels Like It May Be Hotter Than Usual The issue is, I noticed the other day the temp gauge was up. I had recently swapped out gauge clusters, so I got another one thinking maybe it was the temp gauge. This was not the case - both gauges said the truck is running hot. The other issues is with the truck losing coolant - I noticed the other day that the overflow reservoir was dry when I was doing an oil change - I added a quart of coolant and and it had since gone down. So last night I topped off the overflow reservoir, it took right around 1 gallon of coolant - prior to going to bed last night I went out for a drive and noticed I lost about half of the coolant reservoir. I am not sure if perhaps this could be from something else, or if it seems like this may be burning out quicker than from a headgasket? I haven't noticed any leaks or anything from anywhere else so I am not sure. The other issue that lead me to believe that it may be a HG problem was that my heat feels like it is hotter than usual. I may just be imagining this but just something I thought I noticed...who knows at this point If anyone could point me in the right direction, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks in advance

10-11-2010, 04:01 PM	#2
ahodges Elite Explorer Oregon,OH 1996 XLT - 347 V8 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 893 Vehicle Specs	well, I have a 4.0 so I wont be incredibly helpful with this but I have a few thoughts. Just because the gauge reads high doesn't mean that its correct, the temp sensor could be bad. Another thought is that i'm sure you hadn't checked the coolant for a while before the oil change so the radiator could also have been down a ways and as you cycle the system between hot when its running and then when its cooling down, if there is space in the radiator it will suck the coolant out of it and make it seem like you are loosing more than you really are. It could be that the system is catching up since the resevoir was dry. this could also explain why it was running hot and/or the heat from the vents feeling hotter. Where the coolant is going? - There a a dozen places you could be loosing it. First check to see if water pump or hose is leaking. If you can't visibly see any loss of coolant, then it probably is internal. But it could be the intake manifold gasket or head gasket. IF you are loosing that much internally then normally it wouldn't be running as good as normal. Also, you could check the smell of the exhaust, if it smells sweet (like coolant) then i would say head gasket. I don't think the 5.0 is known for head gasket problems so that isn't my first guess. __________________ 1996 Explorer XLT* Supercharged 347 w/ BW4406 Build Thread, 8000K HID Headlights and Fog Lights, Custom electric fans with painless controller, Stainless running boards, etc... 1999 Ranger XLT manual 2WD 3.0L (DD). Window visors, 35% front tint & 20% stock rear tint, 6000K HIDs, 96 explorer rims.. mostly stock 1997 Mountaineer (Swapped 4x4 4.0 OHV from my 96 Explorer) (Sold)

10-11-2010, 04:10 PM	#3
swetrid Wannabe Elite Explorer Reading Pa 2001 Eddie Bauer Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,883 Vehicle Specs	I would suspect you have a coolant leak at timing cover or thermostat housing/hoses. 5.0 do not have head gasket problems. Ahodges is probably correect in saying the radiator level was low an by adding to the overflow coolant will be sucked into the radiator so level will drop. __________________ Resident Ford Tech for the last 17 years, 2001 Eddie Bauer 5.0L, Cherry Bomb Cat back, 2010 Ecoboost Flex

10-11-2010, 04:10 PM	#4
Dan Whitaker One fast putty tat Raytown MO (Kansas City suburb) No Mounty no more. Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,965 Vehicle Specs	If it was the head gasket you would see white smoke coming out of the tail pipe. Is your oil milky looking or oil level over full? __________________ P r i c k me, do I not bleed Ford Blue.

10-11-2010, 04:46 PM	#6
Dan Whitaker One fast putty tat Raytown MO (Kansas City suburb) No Mounty no more. Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,965 Vehicle Specs	It could be the water pump. There is a weep hole in it. When you dirve it could be leaking just enough you can't smell or see it. __________________ P r i c k me, do I not bleed Ford Blue.

10-11-2010, 05:56 PM	#8
dsturch1 Wannabe Elite Explorer Pennington, NJ 03 4.0 XLT & 98 5.0 XLT Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 74 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	After just driving home from work, the coolant level is still around the same in the overflow tank. So it doesn't really appear that I am losing coolant anymore....thoughts? Thanks again everyone!

10-11-2010, 07:39 PM	#9
windsors03cobra Wannabe Elite Explorer Racine WI 99 5.0 AWD EB Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 368 Vehicle Specs	Thoughts You were low on coolant and caught it before it went dry as mentioned on an engine of that mileage any of the gasket thats come in contact with coolant could be eroded and leaking a small amount over time it adds up and we end up with what you had just the other day. I replaced my thermostat gasket last year as it was seeping just a tiny amount and did so for a very long time. I can still smell a small amount of "coolant smell" from time to time and suspect the timing cover may seep some. Small leaks can just be burned off the hot engine block making them harder to notice and or detect. A smell of coolant is usually a sure sign of some type of leak. I dont know maybe mine isn't leaking after all as I have not replaced any coolant in a long time then again I have not checked it in awhile either. I think with 202k on my water pump I am on borrowed time. You may be too. Winter is forthcoming I know I need tires among other things, cooling system weaknesses will be exposed soon enough when it hits 12 fricken degrees outside.

10-11-2010, 09:10 PM	#11
windsors03cobra Wannabe Elite Explorer Racine WI 99 5.0 AWD EB Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 368 Vehicle Specs	Where on the scale is it running ? How much is the needle moving around ?

10-11-2010, 09:19 PM	#12
dsturch1 Wannabe Elite Explorer Pennington, NJ 03 4.0 XLT & 98 5.0 XLT Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 74 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	The needle when I first start out cold is right in line, from there as I drive the needle goes up respectively but then goes right up to the hot line, from there it will drop down maybe 1/8 of the way down - enough for the check gauge light to go off...but from there it fluctuates back and forth between those two points.

10-11-2010, 10:54 PM	#13
windsors03cobra Wannabe Elite Explorer Racine WI 99 5.0 AWD EB Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 368 Vehicle Specs	Eww that does not sound good.

10-12-2010, 03:47 AM	#14
dsturch1 Wannabe Elite Explorer Pennington, NJ 03 4.0 XLT & 98 5.0 XLT Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 74 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	What does that sound like it might be?

10-12-2010, 07:03 AM	#15
ahodges Elite Explorer Oregon,OH 1996 XLT - 347 V8 Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 893 Vehicle Specs	Well since it's still running hot, I would start by replacing thermostat. If that doesn't fix it then I would replace the temp. sensor since those aren't much either. It could be giving you a false reading of hot. Then after that if the problem still isnt fixed i'd say water pump. If it has 230,000 miles on the original water pump it could easily be bad and that would could also explain the slow loss of coolant. __________________ 1996 Explorer XLT Supercharged 347 w/ BW4406 Build Thread, 8000K HID Headlights and Fog Lights, Custom electric fans with painless controller, Stainless running boards, etc... 1999 Ranger XLT manual 2WD 3.0L (DD). Window visors, 35% front tint & 20% stock rear tint, 6000K HIDs, 96 explorer rims.. mostly stock 1997 Mountaineer (Swapped 4x4 4.0 OHV from my 96 Explorer) (Sold)

10-12-2010, 05:02 PM	#19
dsturch1 Wannabe Elite Explorer Pennington, NJ 03 4.0 XLT & 98 5.0 XLT Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 74 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Okay, well on my way home from work today as if I wasn't already slightly confused, my explorer decided to start smoking a little. When I got home I let my truck sit for about an hour and a half. I noticed the overflow tank was again empty so I filled it up to the cold fill line, and started the truck. As I let it warm up I stepped on the gas and it looks like it may be smoking white a little...now I don't know if that's because its kind of cool out and the exhaust is hot or if its a HG smoking. Also, after doing so I noticed coolant dripping onto the ground in the front of the truck....what to do now? The coolant was dripping right down off of the bottom of the radiator and not from the block - which I would presume is a good sign? The overflow is not full so it can't be that letting off, any ideas where to go from here guys?

10-12-2010, 05:46 PM	#20
windsors03cobra Wannabe Elite Explorer Racine WI 99 5.0 AWD EB Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 368 Vehicle Specs	A good sign ? I guess a radiator is easier to change than a timing cover gasket. A rad costs 20 times as much but maybe you save on labor ? You've got to try to pinpoint the source of the leak, could it be a hose connection to the rad ? A leaking rad ? A leaking cap ? The smoking. How much smoke ? Got to be pretty cool to smoke in the afternoon in October, were other cars smoking ? I've smelled exhaust and even tasted the drippings for traces of coolant in a pinch. Pressure testing the cooling system would be a good start to finding it, rent the tester at autozone for a 75 dollar refundable deposit. Pump it up and watch it bleed. Pretty sure the temp sender is real near the thermostat boss and make sure you get the sender and not sensor. Good luck and hope the 5.0 makes it out alive.