Ford Dealer Diagnostic Fee - Flat Rate means ???

I wonder if someone could enlighten me on what the "Flat Fee Diagnostic" means, from Ford Dealers. My dealer told me there was a flate fee of $91 to diagnose the issue, but then called me back and told me that after spending that (??) they still couldn't find the issue, so I would either need to pay more or pay the $91 and come get my car.

To me the flat fee diagnostic means $91 whether it takes them 5 minutes or 5 hours..

Do I misunderstand?

Around here it's a flat fee (like the $91) to hook up the code reader and run codes. If it goes beyond that, it's more money. I think either he used the wrong words "diagnose the issue" if that's exactly what he said.

I would have this discussion with them though, every dealership handles diagnostics slightly different, and remember- more flies with honey...

willy2 said:

I wonder if someone could enlighten me on what the "Flat Fee Diagnostic" means, from Ford Dealers. My dealer told me there was a flate fee of $91 to diagnose the issue, but then called me back and told me that after spending that (??) they still couldn't find the issue, so I would either need to pay more or pay the $91 and come get my car.

To me the flat fee diagnostic means $91 whether it takes them 5 minutes or 5 hours..

Do I misunderstand?

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91 should be charged if the tech diags the problems and hand in a upsell sheet for the problem.

some dealers charge regardless since time is money, and in the end still resources spent......

its all on the dealership tho.

as for repairs, thats another thing.

if it took the full diag time or just 30 seconds. they still charge a flat diag time.

Ok, thank-you for the replies.. In my case the technician returned saying the diagnostic says replace the PATS (anti-theft) module. But the advisor said that can't be the problem, since it was just replaced less than 100mi ago.. So they need to do more diagnostic work..

I guess I need to keep paying them hourly until they figure out what is really wrong...

Well, that's a different story now- if the advisor says that the problem they're showing isn't the problem, or the system that they put in isn't the problem, they should be working with you. Who's to say that the system they put in isn't the problem. Sounds like it's electrical though, and that could get $$$ to track down. I'd try to nail them down a little bit.

willy2 said:

Ok, thank-you for the replies.. In my case the technician returned saying the diagnostic says replace the PATS (anti-theft) module. But the advisor said that can't be the problem, since it was just replaced less than 100mi ago.. So they need to do more diagnostic work..

I guess I need to keep paying them hourly until they figure out what is really wrong...

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i dunno dude, you paid for a problem with a solution. if you paid for a solution the only thing they can since you sign it, is more parts needed, tho you should not pay a diag again.

also the dealership should work with you if its the same problem.

dont get me wrong but a cel diag can be one thing and then another, but the dealership should stand by its name and eat a free diag if its the same problem.

btw whats the original problem and now?

Ok, thank-you very much for the replies, I guess I better tell the whole story, I was trying to avoid for the sake of brevity...

1. Original issue was quickly flashing anti-theft light (no-start). I tried to fix it myself (using the "everything you needed to know about PATS" thread), but couldn't, so I had it towed to my trusted service station mechanic, who couldn't figure it out, then had it towed to the dealer. It started right up for the dealer (although was now running very rough), so I came back and drove it home. Next day tried to start it from home, same problem (blinking anti-theft, no start). So had it towed to the closest (different) dealer (this was a mistake I can see now), who "fixed" it by replacing the anti-theft module.

2. I then went back to the original dealer to fix the running rough problem. They said a broken heater control valve was dripping water on the number 2 cylinder plug causing misfires, and the EGR valve was unplugged. So they fixed this (charging me 2hrs plus parts) and told me to come pick it up.

3. When I came to pick it up, it wouldn't start, rapidly blinking anti-theft. That is where my story starts above (them telling me their diagnostic says replace the PATS module, but the advisor saying that couldn't possibly be it as PATS modules don't go bad that fast (<100mi)).

The car is only worth about $2000 now, but I really like it, I enjoy working on it, participating in this forum, and it still is in really good shape. Has (until now at least) been by far the most inexpensive vehicle I've ever owned...

Willy I spent a good couple of hours reading through the forum "everything you'll ever need to know about PATS" and then shortly after that someone posted up a PATS issue - followed by yet another within a day.... This seems to be an ongoing issue with Ex's around this year 98-99. When you DO find out (God willing Quickly for your wallets sake) please make sure to let us know so we can add have this as another possible PATS solution. I am subscribed.
Good Luck.

Many repair shops and virtually all dealerships use the flat rate system. "Flat Rate" refers to the amount of time that a given job should take based on various flat rate publications accepted by the automotive repair industry. For instance, if the flat rate guide says a given job should take two hours, the customer will pay for two hours labor and the tech will get credit for two hours labor. If the tech takes longer, he still only gets credit for two hours. However, if he completes the job in less time the customer still pays for two hours labor and the tech still gets credit for the full two hours. The shop or dealer simply applies his hourly rate to the flat rate time. A sharp tech can add up alot of extra hours in his work week. This makes money for both the tech and the shop.

It sounds like perhaps you got the rough running problem resolved... maybe.... depending on what you can believe AND IF it ever starts. I guess my "take" is that it was running (rough) and now its not after THEY did some work...hmmm. Sounds like they broke something... Having said that, as suggested by others sounds electrical.... IF the antitheft light doesn't extinguish, then it ain't recognizing your key. OF course, the system for that is relatively simple BUT they are likely going to have to replace a few parts to get it to work OR actually know how to deal with it... good luck. Anyways, first there is the pickup in the column, then there is the receive module, and finally there is the pats module.... so there is work to get at the pickup in the column, "dig and unplug" the receive module / replace if necessary and "dig and unplug pats" / replace / reprogramming..... PLUS potentially any cabling issue in between so you can see that the $$ could up fast on your "dime" that they are "learning" how to troubleshoot a "no start" condition. That's usually the problem when you rely on a dealer for your work/problem.

Hi JD,

In your experience does the "flat rate" apply to a problem diagnostic (telling the customer what the problem is)? Or is that different?

jd944 said:

Many repair shops and virtually all dealerships use the flat rate system. "Flat Rate" refers to the amount of time that a given job should take based on various flat rate publications accepted by the automotive repair industry. For instance, if the flat rate guide says a given job should take two hours, the customer will pay for two hours labor and the tech will get credit for two hours labor. If the tech takes longer, he still only gets credit for two hours. However, if he completes the job in less time the customer still pays for two hours labor and the tech still gets credit for the full two hours. The shop or dealer simply applies his hourly rate to the flat rate time. A sharp tech can add up alot of extra hours in his work week. This makes money for both the tech and the shop.

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Will do. Sounds like I should have another look at that thread, it was a good one...

ragajungle said:

Willy I spent a good couple of hours reading through the forum "everything you'll ever need to know about PATS" and then shortly after that someone posted up a PATS issue - followed by yet another within a day.... This seems to be an ongoing issue with Ex's around this year 98-99. When you DO find out (God willing Quickly for your wallets sake) please make sure to let us know so we can add have this as another possible PATS solution. I am subscribed.
Good Luck.

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Willy2- When I had my shop, a problem diagnostic was usually billed by the hour with the customer agreeing to a not to exceed number. The techs hated it but I made it up to them with jobs I knew they could make money on. Flat rate dictated an hour for a simple computer download but I didn't charge for it if the customer went for the repair.