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351 w swap

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Old 05-09-2012, 10:32 PM   #1
christopherjones
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351 w swap

Know this may have been posted before on this swap, I'm going to attempt it this summer in one of my other explorers
Few questions for opinions or what none of the it can't be done. Unless there's a justifiable reason

1. Stock4r70 trans. Can it take it
2. Can Henson reprogram an expo 5l ECM to run the 351
3. To those who have attempted and read is. Would it work to use a set of shorties or huggers for exhaust or could a person build there own direct turndown bigger log style manifold just to get the gasses out.
4. If 4r is a no go can Henson delete the trans program to run a m5odr2
5. If expo ECM can't run the 5.8 then I'll use a 96 + ECM from a bronco




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Old 05-10-2012, 04:47 AM   #2
2000StreetRod
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oil pan & trigger wheel?

Do you plan to build a custom oil pan yourself?

Does your 351W have a trigger wheel for OBDII?
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Old 05-10-2012, 05:43 AM   #3
boominXplorer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by christopherjones View Post
Know this may have been posted before on this swap, I'm going to attempt it this summer in one of my other explorers
Few questions for opinions or what none of the it can't be done. Unless there's a justifiable reason

1. Stock4r70 trans. Can it take it
2. Can Henson reprogram an expo 5l ECM to run the 351
3. To those who have attempted and read is. Would it work to use a set of shorties or huggers for exhaust or could a person build there own direct turndown bigger log style manifold just to get the gasses out.
4. If 4r is a no go can Henson delete the trans program to run a m5odr2
5. If expo ECM can't run the 5.8 then I'll use a 96 + ECM from a bronco

1. Yes, 4r70 will take it and love it just as long as you at least give it a shift kit and if its not worn out already.
2. Not sure if he can but a 351 has a different firing order, you got to switch some plug wires around to make it work.
3. NO manfolds fit this swap, custom is the only way. The closest I can think to being bolt on is a FMS driver side header and a OEM 94-95 mustang for the pass side
4. This is all your own option as a 4r70 will still work
5. This is where it gets fun. If you want to keep the explorer pcm (more power ans adjust-ability with tune) you have to modify a few things.....
-Cam pos sensor-Need to adapt the oil pump drive to fit, needs 1" longer
-Balancer-The explorer balancer is 52oz and the 351 is balanced at 28oz. You need to either re-balance the assy or the explorer balancer so you have the trigger wheel.

Figure on tall valve covers will be in the a/c box without a doubt unless you have a body lift. The truck 351 oil pan will clear if you lift the motor 1" up, or you have to go custom. If you want to keep the explorer upper intake manifold you have to find a 351w gt40 intake which are HARD to find. It took me about 6 months to find one affordable. I have about 3/4 of the parts to do this swap, just waiting for the time to get the motor ready. There are a few other details that I do not know the extent of just because I have not put one in YET but that's most of the fun stuff there.




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Old 05-10-2012, 09:10 AM   #4
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I was under the assumption that the 351 share the same firing order as the HO 302 cam pos senso shouldn't be bad nor should dank trigger wheel as the newer 351 in broncos were obd2 and rocked out crank sensor




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Old 05-10-2012, 06:34 PM   #5
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4 tooth trigger wheel

I believe the OBDII 5.8L engines have a 4 tooth trigger wheel while the 5.0L engines have a 36-1 trigger wheel.
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You will not be able to use the Explorer PCM with the 4 tooth trigger wheel. The 4 tooth trigger wheel is for OBDII compliance - the distributor determines the ignition timing.

Last edited by 2000StreetRod; 05-10-2012 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:06 PM   #6
christopherjones
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Right but should a person not be able to press the expo crank trigger in place of the 4 tooth.

Another question is the flex plate for a e4 the same size as a 4r
Reason I ask is because the flex plates are balanced to the crank so one cannot simply swap flex plates
Maybe the only route will be to rock out a m5 from a newer v6 f150 and run an external slave mod combined with dropping the notion of running edis on the 5.8. This maybe easier. I'm going to try lifting the front of the engine up a bit off the mounts and shimming forwards at the same time as dropping the tail stock of trans to get the oilman clearance required, either that or move the rack down into a beefed x member




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dual exhaust w bottles to be heard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSzHUWqXbIc
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:21 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by christopherjones View Post
Right but should a person not be able to press the expo crank trigger in place of the 4 tooth.
Already did it.

You also need to find a 94-95 Cobra crank pulley. They are almost the same diameter as the stock 5.0l pulley and will fit the 351 balancer.

Then you need to have the front of the balancer machined down about 1/4", so the pulleys will align.




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Old 05-10-2012, 08:35 PM   #8
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Would maching dampner down. Not change the balance? Why would you need different pulleys. Outside overall pulley diameter won't matter if you using the same trigger it would just under/over drive accessories and I'll be running with out an a.i.r. Pump or an ad pump I'll be custom sizing belts. As far as front dress goes I ll be running a twin Efan like my current 5.0 so I don't need room for the mech fan allowing me to use the tall dress common to all fords ( with the exception of the 1 off explorers short dress )
Evans in front of rad from a newer body cougar in place of condenser fits perfect but that's steering away from the point of this thread

So it seems as thou I'll be forgoing edis and the auto in favor of a 5spd w distributor. Was hoping to use the parts off of my rotten 5l parts truck
Unfortunately here where I live if your vehicle was obd2 it has to stay obd2 in case you get pulled over for something and they issue a vi. Bc cops don't like it when people have toys




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97 +gt40p 5.0/4r70w
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dual exhaust w bottles to be heard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSzHUWqXbIc
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Old 05-10-2012, 08:41 PM   #9
techieman33
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Get in contact with pufferfish, he may still have a lot of the parts you would need for the swap. And if he doesn't his threads have lots of good info in them.

http://www.explorerforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=335841
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:28 AM   #10
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http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-77207D/

Would this work




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97 +gt40p 5.0/4r70w
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dual exhaust w bottles to be heard
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSzHUWqXbIc
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Old 05-11-2012, 04:46 AM   #11
2000StreetRod
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hall effect outputs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by christopherjones View Post
I couldn't find much information on the 77207D dual sensor assembly. It looks like it is designed to work with Mallory's ignition module that will accept various sensor inputs. Your 5.0L PCM expects a variable reluctor sensor signal from the 36-1 trigger wheel and a hall effect sensor signal from the synchronizer. I suspect the 77207D outputs hall effect sensor signal outputs for both the crankshaft and the camshaft. Also, the PCM requires 35 pulses per crankshaft revolution which probably is not available from the 77207D. You need to contact Mallory to find out more information about signal compatibility but I'm not optimistic.

Edit: According to my 1996 and 2000 wiring diagrams, sometime between those years the V8 synchronizer changed from a 3 wire hall effect sensor to a 2 wire variable reluctor sensor. The same is true for the 4.0L OHV V6.

Last edited by 2000StreetRod; 05-11-2012 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:45 PM   #12
pufferfish
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The crank trigger linked is only a crank trigger. You have the cam trigger to deal with too. I found one that did both and fit the but only looked to use it for the cam trigger, which, in theory would work. Never got to find out first hand though.
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Old 05-12-2012, 12:18 AM   #13
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cam & crank

Quote:
Originally Posted by pufferfish View Post
The crank trigger linked is only a crank trigger. You have the cam trigger to deal with too. I found one that did both and fit the but only looked to use it for the cam trigger, which, in theory would work. Never got to find out first hand though.
The Mallory Ignition 77207D FireStorm Dual Sync Sensor Assembly was available the end of last year for the 5.8L. It generates a camshaft and a crankshaft pulse: http://prestoliteperformance.com/npd...01D_77207D.pdf
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