Clinton131
New Member
- Joined
- June 28, 2012
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 0
- City, State
- Grand Haven, MI
- Year, Model & Trim Level
- 2002 Mercury Mountaineer
New to the forums and in need of help. Long story short I have a 2002 Mercury Mountaineer 4.6 with a No start condition linked to no injector pulse. The vehicle will crank over.
I apologize for the long post but I wanted to supply everyone with as much info as I could.
History:
Approx. two years ago car would occassionaly stall due to a faulty idle air control valve. The vehicle would always start right back up after the stall. When I pulled the codes I found the 1504 code which is linked to the IAC. I cleaned the valve with carb cleaner and reinstalled.
Car ran great up to about two weeks ago. Wife complained of a similar situation along with a longer start (crank) times (on occassion) but was able to get it started after it stalled out. I again cleaned the IAC with carb cleaner and reassembled.
Last week I got a call from her advising she was stranded on the side of road and could not get it started at all. I left work to "rescue" her and could not get it started either. Car would crank but would not even think about firing.
A few hours later I returned to the vehicle and attempted to start it again. It started right up. I let it idle for a while and it seemed to run fine. Since I did not have another driver, I left it on the side of the road until after work. When I returned to get the car, it again started right up again. I made it about 100 yards down the road and the vehicle stalled out. It did not cough and gag at all, it stalled out as if someone had shut the ignition off. I was not able to get it restarted and ended up towing it home.
DTC CODES:
I pulled the codes using a scanner and found the following:
1401 which is EGR. This code has been there for a while and my check engine light has been on because of it for over a year.
1504 which is the IAC. I replaced the IAC. Vehicle still would not start (not suprised, I did not think that this would cause a no start)
B1601 My scan tool did not recognize this code so I googled it. Found that it is a PATS code: Unprogrammed Encoded Ignition Key. (more on this later)
SPARK:
Yes. Will run on starter fluid.
FUEL:
Checked the following
Fuse: Good
Fuel pump relay: Good (swapped out with like, known working relay)
Inertia switch: Good. Power in and out of switch. (It should be noted that when I was testing this switch I cranked the vehicle and it did start. Vehicle ran rough for about 5 seconds and then cut out)
Fuel pump: Good. Could hear pump priming when ignition turned on. (it should be noted that at one point the vehicle started up again. It ran rough for a few seconds and then ran like a v8 should. It may have run rough due to the computer aclimating itself to the new IAC that I installed earlier. Ran until I shut the ignition off. Could not restart and have not been able to restart it again since. Just cranks.)
Fuel Pressure at rail: 60 psi
DEALERSHIP INSPECTION:
Suspecting a possible PATS issue based on the code it threw, I brought the vehicle to my local dealership. They had to cut me a new key since I only had one and programmed the key. Still a no start. Most expensive key I ever bought at $209.43.
Their diagnosis: All eight fuel injectors were plugged due to possible vandalisim (contaminated fuel). I asked how this was possible if I was able to get it started after the issue began and it ran smooth. They had no answer for this.
Their exact diagnosis is as follows: "MULTI-POINT INSPECTION. CHECK SPARK-OK. HAS 60 PSI FUEL PRESSURE HAS PULSE TO INJECTORS. HAS RPM SIGNAL CHECKFUEL INJECTOR FLOW-VERY WEAK. TRIED GOOD FUEL-NO CHANGE. SUSPECT CONTAMINATED FUEL CAUSED INJECTORS TO GET PLUGGED. WILL NEED INJECTORS & FUEL TANK DROPPED & CLEANED AND NEW FUEL. MAY NEED FUEL PUMP IN FUTURE BUT WORKING OK NOW."
They wanted $1100.00 dollars to replace injectors and another $1100.00 to drop and clean the fuel tank. Since I found it very hard to believe that all eight injectors plugged at the exact same time, then unplugged, and then plugged again at the exact same time, I took the vehicle to another mechanic for a second opinion.
SECOND OPINION
The second mechanic advised that all eight injectors being plugged at the same time was not likely. He found with a Noid light that the injectors were NOT pulsing, contrary to what the dealership had told me. He checked the Noid light on a working vehicle to assure that the Noid light was functioning properly.
He checked all sensors, including the Crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor. All appeared to be functioning. He even swapped the camshaft position sensor out with another known working vehicle. The other vehicle fired right up with the CPS sensor from my vehicle. All grounds were checked and appeared to be good. His diagnosis is that their is an issue with the PCM, that is no not signaling the injectors to fire, though he is not positive. I realize that these PCM's rarely go bad, and everything else seems to be functioning properly. The check engine light comes on when the ignition is turned on and I am able to pull codes from the PCM.
I have ordered a used PCM through my local Ford Dealership for $150.00. I am skeptical that this is going to work but I am getting desperate. I hate to throw parts at this car but I am running out of ideas.
Anyone with an idea please ad your $.02.
I apologize for the long post but I wanted to supply everyone with as much info as I could.
History:
Approx. two years ago car would occassionaly stall due to a faulty idle air control valve. The vehicle would always start right back up after the stall. When I pulled the codes I found the 1504 code which is linked to the IAC. I cleaned the valve with carb cleaner and reinstalled.
Car ran great up to about two weeks ago. Wife complained of a similar situation along with a longer start (crank) times (on occassion) but was able to get it started after it stalled out. I again cleaned the IAC with carb cleaner and reassembled.
Last week I got a call from her advising she was stranded on the side of road and could not get it started at all. I left work to "rescue" her and could not get it started either. Car would crank but would not even think about firing.
A few hours later I returned to the vehicle and attempted to start it again. It started right up. I let it idle for a while and it seemed to run fine. Since I did not have another driver, I left it on the side of the road until after work. When I returned to get the car, it again started right up again. I made it about 100 yards down the road and the vehicle stalled out. It did not cough and gag at all, it stalled out as if someone had shut the ignition off. I was not able to get it restarted and ended up towing it home.
DTC CODES:
I pulled the codes using a scanner and found the following:
1401 which is EGR. This code has been there for a while and my check engine light has been on because of it for over a year.
1504 which is the IAC. I replaced the IAC. Vehicle still would not start (not suprised, I did not think that this would cause a no start)
B1601 My scan tool did not recognize this code so I googled it. Found that it is a PATS code: Unprogrammed Encoded Ignition Key. (more on this later)
SPARK:
Yes. Will run on starter fluid.
FUEL:
Checked the following
Fuse: Good
Fuel pump relay: Good (swapped out with like, known working relay)
Inertia switch: Good. Power in and out of switch. (It should be noted that when I was testing this switch I cranked the vehicle and it did start. Vehicle ran rough for about 5 seconds and then cut out)
Fuel pump: Good. Could hear pump priming when ignition turned on. (it should be noted that at one point the vehicle started up again. It ran rough for a few seconds and then ran like a v8 should. It may have run rough due to the computer aclimating itself to the new IAC that I installed earlier. Ran until I shut the ignition off. Could not restart and have not been able to restart it again since. Just cranks.)
Fuel Pressure at rail: 60 psi
DEALERSHIP INSPECTION:
Suspecting a possible PATS issue based on the code it threw, I brought the vehicle to my local dealership. They had to cut me a new key since I only had one and programmed the key. Still a no start. Most expensive key I ever bought at $209.43.
Their diagnosis: All eight fuel injectors were plugged due to possible vandalisim (contaminated fuel). I asked how this was possible if I was able to get it started after the issue began and it ran smooth. They had no answer for this.
Their exact diagnosis is as follows: "MULTI-POINT INSPECTION. CHECK SPARK-OK. HAS 60 PSI FUEL PRESSURE HAS PULSE TO INJECTORS. HAS RPM SIGNAL CHECKFUEL INJECTOR FLOW-VERY WEAK. TRIED GOOD FUEL-NO CHANGE. SUSPECT CONTAMINATED FUEL CAUSED INJECTORS TO GET PLUGGED. WILL NEED INJECTORS & FUEL TANK DROPPED & CLEANED AND NEW FUEL. MAY NEED FUEL PUMP IN FUTURE BUT WORKING OK NOW."
They wanted $1100.00 dollars to replace injectors and another $1100.00 to drop and clean the fuel tank. Since I found it very hard to believe that all eight injectors plugged at the exact same time, then unplugged, and then plugged again at the exact same time, I took the vehicle to another mechanic for a second opinion.
SECOND OPINION
The second mechanic advised that all eight injectors being plugged at the same time was not likely. He found with a Noid light that the injectors were NOT pulsing, contrary to what the dealership had told me. He checked the Noid light on a working vehicle to assure that the Noid light was functioning properly.
He checked all sensors, including the Crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor. All appeared to be functioning. He even swapped the camshaft position sensor out with another known working vehicle. The other vehicle fired right up with the CPS sensor from my vehicle. All grounds were checked and appeared to be good. His diagnosis is that their is an issue with the PCM, that is no not signaling the injectors to fire, though he is not positive. I realize that these PCM's rarely go bad, and everything else seems to be functioning properly. The check engine light comes on when the ignition is turned on and I am able to pull codes from the PCM.
I have ordered a used PCM through my local Ford Dealership for $150.00. I am skeptical that this is going to work but I am getting desperate. I hate to throw parts at this car but I am running out of ideas.
Anyone with an idea please ad your $.02.
