Does FORD motor co. HATE the USA???

[Joe Dirt]

There is a big difference in Ford "not giving a shit what the NA market wants" and Ford "not doing what pickupman thinks they should do"

As a stockholder, I'm pretty happy with Ford's business plan of moving to new technology and platforms rather than die on the vine.

[JohnnyO]

Originally Posted by Pickupman_69

Ford is just notorious for not giving a shit what the north american market wants,its that simple.

it was proven when the closed ford talbotville and discontinued the crown vic when basically every one made was sold coming off the line, however I drive past ford oakville and see a yard full of new vehicles that arent moving. that sounds like a great business plan to me.

The Crown Vic wasn't helpful to Ford meeting the CAFE standards (the govt, again). The automakers do get an exemption from CAFE for cars sold to law enforcement. So the Crown Vics sold to me and you bring down the CAFE average while the ones driven by the state po-po don't affect it.

Ford is in business to make money. If they don't make money, then they aren't in business at all. For example, I visited the Explorer and Sport Trac factory in Louisville two years ago with the Sport Trac Club, got lunch and tour of the factory. The Ford brass (some of whom were admitted Sport Trac owners) explained that they were discontinuing the Sport Trac because the demand for higher mpg forced a redesign of the Explorer but they simply did not sell enough Sport Tracs to justify developing a pickup version. They need to sell at least 20,000 of something to make a profit and they sold about 12,000 Sport Tracs in its last year, 2010. A four-door F150 is bigger, carries more, tows more, is more profitable, and gets about the same mpg as a Sport Trac. The fact that one will not fit in JohnnyO's garage or even his driveway is not enough to keep building them.

As far as diesels go, small diesels are difficult to pass U.S. emissions standards. Europe has emissions standards too but apparently fuel economy is a higher priority. Of course fuel costs a lot more there too. I spent two weeks in Italy just last May. Saw lots of Smart Cars, Fiat 500's and a few Ford Focuses but pretty much everything else I saw there was no way in hell they'd pass U.S. crash tests. A "pickup truck" in Italy is a tiny cabover thing not a lot bigger than what greenskeepers use on a golf course here.

[kert0307]

The average person doesn't realize the effects of the EPA regulations and other regulations placed on US manufacturers. Trust me, I'm an engineer for an Ag and mining company and the EPA tier4 diesel emissions stuff is a pain in the butt and is going to cause the used equipment market to go crazy after people realize what they will have to "deal with" on the new stuff. I long for the days of mechanical diesels....

[Joe Dirt]

That's exactly right kert... If people really knew what US manufacturers were up against in regulation, a lot of people would have completely different perspectives on how thigns work and what is to blame.

[waskly]

the us is more regulated cause we are more careless.

[College Student]

I saw the new 2012 Ranger while on a mission trip to Jamaica. I loved how it looked. What do you think it would cost to just buy one in another country then get it shipped here. I know it's probably impractical but is it possibly an option.

[waskly]

Originally Posted by College Student

I saw the new 2012 Ranger while on a mission trip to Jamaica. I loved how it looked. What do you think it would cost to just buy one in another country then get it shipped here. I know it's probably impractical but is it possibly an option.

you cant import a vehicle to the us.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/

some intresting reading.

[MidnightRebel07]

You can but it's not cheap or easy.

[05dakotatrac]

some vehicles are completely red flagged on NHTSA and EPA lists for import. for instance being military i can own foriegn vehicles while overseas and can import too but only within lawful standards. i know for a fact that in japan my R33 skyline i had was importable to america even though there was no american based car that matched it. funny thing was i had access to a R34 which is very close to americas inifinity but NHTSA has that car red flagged. as a no go import.

[Sedition]

Just to answer some questions on this thread about Australia.

~Our exchange rate AUD to USD has been about even for a couple of years now. As it stands today 1 AUD can buy 1.05 USD.

~I recently looked at a 98 model F250 for door Auto with the 7.3litre powerstroke and the dealership wanted over $75,000 AUD for it. When I asked to take it for a test drive and possibly trade my Explorer in on it the guy just looked at me funny.

~Up until about 2008 we had highways, such as the Sturt, that run through the centre of Australian deserts with unlimited speed limits. The roads are in good enough condition so that you could drive a modern car at about 170km/h (100+mph) on them only slowing down for wildlife (Cows, Kangaroos, Vultures ect...)and bends where the road has to cross directly over a creek bed or rail road track every couple of hundread miles. However, due to the death toll, a limit of 130km/h (82mph) has since been set on those roads. The maximum speed limit on suburban roads is 110km/h (70mph)

Australia has almost the same land mass as the lower 48 American States however we only have 6 States and 2 Territories each containing only 1 capitol city with many Urban centres. So it is a really long distance between places with nothing in between, except may be a Gas station. Our population is currently 22,500,000 most of these people reside on the east coast of Australia.

~Those DOHC Turbocharged 4.0L's aren't cheap and need to run on 98 octane fuel. Say for instance the Ford Falcon XR6 Typhoon starts at about 70k. For them to be legal they need 19+" rims on the to fit over the brakes and the the ride is stiff as hell so it can go around corners.

[kert0307]

Originally Posted by waskly

the us is more regulated cause we are more careless.

No, it's because lawyers and Al Gore think they know the inner workings of a combustion engine better than CAT and Cummins...

The tier 4 standards for diesel literally are diesel powered air filters, how efficient do you think they are going to be? The question of the year is how are you going to cram all that emissions into something compact like a skid steer, and if you do how do you service it when every square inch is filled up and there's no room to work?

Also, anyone who says EGR systems are beneficial needs to get a section of hose, put one end in their colon and the other in their mouth and go for a nice jog and tell me how they feel afterwords, cause that is what their engine operates like every day...

end rant.

[OffTrac]

Also, anyone who says EGR systems are beneficial needs to get a section of hose, put one end in their colon and the other in their mouth and go for a nice jog and tell me how they feel afterwords, cause that is what their engine operates like every day...

I'll report my findings in a couple hours.

[WidgetTrac]

Johnny, some good points there. The exec you met summed it up - they didn' want to spend the money making a new gen ST. I had no idea production numbers were so low - I looked up my '93 mustang and they made like 250,000 that year, but also they try to sell us on what they want us to buy - look at all the truck commercials with the mud and the jumping and the slo-mo drifting, mesmerizing city folk who are bored stoopid with flat concrete into buying big trucks that don't fit their lifestyle or their garage (actually, I blame John Travolta, but that's a story for another time, lol!) simply because the profit is higher - upselling 101...

Sedition, thanks for the info! I haven't looked at sedan type cars since just before I got my 'trac in 2000, but back then the Taurus and mercury sable and the wagon versions of both, had a base sohc 12v v6, and there was also a 24v dohc version in most of the ones with the Upgraded interior & alloy wheels, and then just the Taurus sedan was sometimes available in an SHO edition with turbo, body kit, and suspension & tyres like a mustang gt or cobra. I think the Taurus name has been changed to something else now, but if there's something like the sho around, it might not be too much less than $70k... anyone know?

Do you have crown vic's down there? I was under the impression that the Ute was about Taurus sized, but now I wonder if it's bigger like the vic, and if you even have tauruses or vics to compare to the Ute...

Most of the replies seem to be barking up the wrong tree! I agree, our laws are stupid and mostly seem to gridlock the forward progress of the well intentioned, while at the same time creating lots of loopholes for the devious basturds out there to get away with murder... But that's not the point.

I guess I did kinda start with an attention grabbing headline...

...but did you guys actually click on the link in my first post and LOOK at the pics? I wasn't really interested in starting an anti-government rant page or analysis of the effect of marketing on consumer demand - I was trying to shine some light on some badazz rides! I couldn't figure out an easy way to post the pics, so I just posted the link... I guess everybody read my rant and completely ignored the pics.

[waskly]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh6h9zdSYco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ULm6QrC428

http://media.smh.drive.com.au/cars/c...t-2000301.html

you want these cars on the roads in the states?

hate to say it, but alot of it is due to china. they copy every vehicle, mfg etc.

[OffTrac]

Johnny, some good points there. The exec you met summed it up - they didn't want to LOSE money making a new gen ST.

There I fixed it.

FWIW, I saw the pictures. Ford makes great vehicles around the world, including here in the U.S. We get what they can profitably produce. They're not a welfare car company that make things just because it would please some people (that's GM and their failed Volt, lol). They make things that make profit. Pure and simple. I'll leave the excuses for why we get what we get in the U.S. to the others. I agree with how Ford is operating right now. Hated to see Mercury cut but I understand why.

[WidgetTrac]

Okay, since this thread is already RUINED!, I'll start another one for the awesome pix.

Just to keep the rants going, here is a picture of the base dohc 4.0L "berra" I6 engine...



Yes, a straight six, not a vee!

...behind the thermostat that looks like an egr valve, and I see a bunch of sensors and wires and tubing all over the place, just like an American car. There are warning stickers and everything looks pretty packed in like an American car. The website is all safety this and eco that, clean burning airbags and what all, just like here, so it seems like Australian cars pretty much have the same kinds of safety and emmisions and product liability issues as American cars, maybe slightly different in details. But after reading some of the replies above, It sounds like some of you guys are having a mental image of new Australian cars coming from the factory with an 11:1 solid cam 351 Cleveland, 750 dp Holley, and headers into glasspacks!

Also, Europeans are absolutely NUTS over safety! I've designed offshore equipment and haz-loc controls, and they want everything to be completely idiot proof and so much documentation you spend more time doing that than tech issues! Compared to them, OSHA and US agencies are putty in the hands of industry.

[WidgetTrac]

Hugh, it means the same thing either way - just like the old "glass is half empty/half full" thing, I never understood the difference. It means the same thing, and anyway, I'm the type to hold it up and say "it looks like about 55 or 60% full to me, and did anybody ever question why we are assuming it's filled with something GOOD in the first place?"

Obviously they don't want to loose money, but I guess maybe the difference is that the execs are finance & marketing guys, not car guys. If they were car guys, they would have love for the product, belief in its greatness, and personal stake in their own creation.

what's the ratio of ST vs f150 & superduty ads you see? i've only seen a handfull of ST ads ever; I see truck ads every day. I think if they pushed the trac like they do the big trux, they might make up the difference in per unit profit with volume, because IMO the ST is the ideal vehicle for everyone everywhere - it should be the top selling vehicle worldwide! and if everyone everywhere doesn't realize the greatness of the 'trac design, it's only because fomoco hasn't had enough faith in their own product to promote it properly. Yes, its a little different looking at first, but soooo useful and I think with more exposure it would sell a lot more. In a country of about 240 million people, if they can't move a lousy 20000 units, they gotta be sandbaggin! Probably doing it on purpose so they can show a loss on their books to take advantage of some tax credit or something...

I kind of see the falcon Ute as being in the same boat as the trac - a little different than the standard "car", "truck" and "van" types, which seems to confuse and frighten simpleminded folk; they're not sure what to make of it at first, but if they see other people using one on TV enough times, then they'll gradually come to accept it as a normal part of their habitat, and eventually work up tje courage to sit in one or buy it.

[briwayjones]

Originally Posted by kert0307

No, it's because lawyers and Al Gore think they know the inner workings of a combustion engine

Also, anyone who says EGR systems are beneficial needs to get a section of hose, put one end in their colon and the other in their mouth and go for a nice jog and tell me how they feel afterwords, cause that is what their engine operates like every day...

end rant.

Yup! The tighter emission standards hurt the fuel economy on the vehicles. An example! In the early 90's econo-boxes like the Geo Metro and Honda CRX were getting 50MPG. But the same size cars today struggle to get 40MPG. They tightened the emissions standards on the vehicles over the years. Yeah vehicles are producing less emissions, but at the cost of efficiency. I can't prove it, but I think the drop in efficiency is greater than the reduction of emissions. So in other words, today's vehicles actually pollute more despite the fact they put out less emissions because they are burning a greater amount of fuel. That's what the government and environmentalists will do for you.

Another example, vehicles in Europe get much better mileage because of the more lax standards than here. Even larger vehicles.

[MyTrac]

those diesals are incredibly efficient cars. VW cars?? thos turbo diesals are incredible! and they sell well too! I can;t imagine Ford couldn't come up with a way to make that happen within a sport trac platform. It's too bad...I love these trucks and I hate that I may never get to buy a 'new' one....

[waskly]

Originally Posted by briwayjones

Yup! The tighter emission standards hurt the fuel economy on the vehicles. An example! In the early 90's econo-boxes like the Geo Metro and Honda CRX were getting 50MPG. But the same size cars today struggle to get 40MPG. They tightened the emissions standards on the vehicles over the years. Yeah vehicles are producing less emissions, but at the cost of efficiency. I can't prove it, but I think the drop in efficiency is greater than the reduction of emissions. So in other words, today's vehicles actually pollute more despite the fact they put out less emissions because they are burning a greater amount of fuel. That's what the government and environmentalists will do for you.

Another example, vehicles in Europe get much better mileage because of the more lax standards than here. Even larger vehicles.

you really comparing a 1L to us vehicles? really.

look at a smart or a fiat 500, just put a 1.0L or any motor under 2L and make it a diesel. vs what? a 4.0L explorer that is triple the weight, double the size?

a fiat 500c has a 875 cc engine, 2 cylinder.
or look at the fiat Doblò which looks like a nissan cube, 1368cc motor. my ducatti when i had it had a 1190 or so engine. they use these in mini vans....

this is just not on fiat, look up vauxhall, what looks like a full size vehicle, 1364cc engines, start/ stop.

also lets not forget we calculate mpg way different then eu,

in eu they also count and factor in start / stop tech into fuel economy.

ford.co.uk i looked up a mondeo.

Duratorq TDCi engines evolved
Engineered to deliver refined performance and low cost of ownership, the 2.0-litre 163 PS Duratorq TDCi engine with six-speed manual transmission delivers impressive fuel economy of 53.3mpg lower CO2 emissions of only 139 g/km.

In addition, 2.0-litre 163 PS Duratorq TDCi engine is available with Ford PowerShift six-speed dual-clutch transmission, improving fuel efficiency by up to 10% compared to a conventional automatic. Its CO2 emissions are just 149 g/km and fuel consumption only 50.4mpg.

not even close to us sizes. the cars are just that much smaller.