Coolant in firing chamber?

Deadfish · 12-12-2001, 01:01 AM

Hi, I'm not a mechanic and don't know much about what's under the hood of my rig, but I'll try to be as accurate as possible with my question. I have the 4.0L V6, and a few days ago, the power got very sluggish, with the engine just choking along. A few minutes later and it was running fine. Fast forward two days and it happened again while my wife was driving, but it completely died. I was able to start it again and limp it to the service department. They ran a diagnostic and found coolant in the firing chamber from a leaking head gasket. They said that I need to replace 3 cylinders and heads (?). At a huge cost. Has anybody heard of this? Should I have somebody else check it out? What questions should I ask the service department? I am totally frustrated....is there some way I could have caught this earlier? Thanks so much for your help.

-Deadfish

jimmiecakes · 12-12-2001, 01:27 AM

I'm a little concerned about your description, Df.... I can't reconcile the "replace three cylinders" part. It's not unheard of to experience head gasket or even cylinder head failure on these motors and it is indeed a spendy repair.

It appears, however, that intake gasket failure happens more often. Both of these conditions could result in coolant entering the combustion chamber.

If the dealer has you feeling uncomfortable or hasn't given a really good explanation of the problem and exactly what he will do to repair it (along with a detailed estimate), I'd recommend a second opinion - if for no other reason than your peace of mind.

There are many very good independent repair shops to be found that charge substantially less than the dealer. Check with your local auto club office or you can check http://www.iatn.net for a good mechanic near you.

I'd also recommend that you avoid driving the vehicle if at all possible. The chance for further and even more expensive engine damage is very real.

Deadfish · 12-12-2001, 01:49 AM

Thanks for the quick reply. Now that you mention it, I think the service guy said that the cylinder heads needed replacing. I can't remember exactly which gasket he said that failed.

He said that green film was burnt onto the cylinder heads and that a white crust had formed on the engine from the leaking coolant. I apologize for not having all the technical knowledge or terms down.

He seemed straightforward and hasn't given me a reason to mistrust him. He did give me a pretty detailed estimate over the phone as well.

Its just frustrating because it seemed to be running like a champ just 3 days ago.

Is this something that can recur later, or will the repair be solid enough to not be concerned about? I know that the quality of the repair itself plays a big part, I just don't know how involved or messy this particular problem is. Thanks again so much for your help

-J. Wolfe

jimmiecakes · 12-12-2001, 02:47 AM

OK, I got a better feel for your situation now. No problem on the lack of familiarity with the mechanical aspect - I just like knowing we're on the same page.

It doesn't sound like the motor was severely overheated nor does it sound like a cylinder hydro-locked (filled with coolant which doesn't compress like air/fuel mixture will) so there shouldn't be any nasty surprises waiting to be discovered during disassembly.

There is just no way to predict these kinds of failures though the 4.0 does seem to be one of the motors from Detroit that seems to have a slightly "higher than normal" incidence of this kind of failure.

I have yet to hear of anyone having any complaints after this type of repair and you should have many miles of relatively trouble free motoring left in your car.

I was a little shy at first - it's close to Xmas and I think I've ruined more than a couple of Xmas budgets in the last week

- something I dislike doing.

Deadfish · 12-12-2001, 10:20 AM

Thanks again for your post. This has probably been the best board I've been on for quick, informative responses. I feel a little better about what I am getting myself into now.

I hear you though, this Christmas is going to be a little rough. The repairs to the Explorer are going to cost me about a months salary. Argh. Oh well, if car trouble is the biggest problem my family has this year, then I guess we have it okay.

Thanks again for your help. Have a great holiday season.

-J. Wolfe

MeatWagon · 12-17-2001, 09:07 AM

First off , sorry to hear about your engine trouble . I just went thru the same thing , but luckily I have some mechanical skills and a shop and mechanic to help with large problems . I don't want to ruin your holiday but that is an expensive repair . Hopefully you didn't crack or warp a head . To put it in laymans terms , they have to remove the whole top end of your engine . Not a fun job . If you don't need a head then the parts should be -a top end gasket set( 2-3 hundred) torque to yeild bolts (around $100) and an EGR valve gasket ($3) then labor (alot!) . Oh I forgot coolant . For a skilled mechanic , it's about a 11/2 - 2 day job . Good luck !

Deadfish · 12-27-2001, 01:43 AM

Hi again,

Thanks so much for the help with the last problem. I had the service department make the repairs, which included replacing a cylinder head and some gaskets. However, now while driving, the engine compartment smells like there is rubber burning.

Does anybody have any idea what would be causing this or if it might be normal? My first thought is that a gasket may be against the engine block, but I don't think they are made of rubber. As you might tell, I'm not as savvy with mechanical goings-on as I'd like to be.

Also, are the Chilton or other repair manuals handy to have around? I've hear mixed reviews about them, but I am considering getting one to help me out with these types of things.

Thanks so much again,

J. Wolfe

MeatWagon · 12-27-2001, 08:54 AM

The first thing you should look for is wires against the exhuast manifold . You might have a plug wire getting hot by laying on the exhuast . As far as having a manual around , it's always a good thing . If you have some mechanical skills it will help you learn new stuff . Get the Chiltons Manual if you have the cash . They are expensive . Thanks to Chiltons , I learned how to do the head work on my engine . If your not mechanicaly inclined , stick with going to a mechanic . Just make sure you trust them . Let us know if you find the smell .

12-12-2001, 01:01 AM	#1
Deadfish Wannabe Elite Explorer Boise, Idaho 1996 XLT Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Coolant in firing chamber? Hi, I'm not a mechanic and don't know much about what's under the hood of my rig, but I'll try to be as accurate as possible with my question. I have the 4.0L V6, and a few days ago, the power got very sluggish, with the engine just choking along. A few minutes later and it was running fine. Fast forward two days and it happened again while my wife was driving, but it completely died. I was able to start it again and limp it to the service department. They ran a diagnostic and found coolant in the firing chamber from a leaking head gasket. They said that I need to replace 3 cylinders and heads (?). At a huge cost. Has anybody heard of this? Should I have somebody else check it out? What questions should I ask the service department? I am totally frustrated....is there some way I could have caught this earlier? Thanks so much for your help. -Deadfish

12-12-2001, 01:27 AM	#2
jimmiecakes Wannabe Elite Explorer Slave Lake, Alberta, Canada 92 XL 4X4 Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 299 Vehicle Specs	I'm a little concerned about your description, Df.... I can't reconcile the "replace three cylinders" part. It's not unheard of to experience head gasket or even cylinder head failure on these motors and it is indeed a spendy repair. It appears, however, that intake gasket failure happens more often. Both of these conditions could result in coolant entering the combustion chamber. If the dealer has you feeling uncomfortable or hasn't given a really good explanation of the problem and exactly what he will do to repair it (along with a detailed estimate), I'd recommend a second opinion - if for no other reason than your peace of mind. There are many very good independent repair shops to be found that charge substantially less than the dealer. Check with your local auto club office or you can check http://www.iatn.net for a good mechanic near you. I'd also recommend that you avoid driving the vehicle if at all possible. The chance for further and even more expensive engine damage is very real. __________________ Jim Warman '92 XL 4X4

12-12-2001, 02:47 AM	#4
jimmiecakes Wannabe Elite Explorer Slave Lake, Alberta, Canada 92 XL 4X4 Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 299 Vehicle Specs	OK, I got a better feel for your situation now. No problem on the lack of familiarity with the mechanical aspect - I just like knowing we're on the same page. It doesn't sound like the motor was severely overheated nor does it sound like a cylinder hydro-locked (filled with coolant which doesn't compress like air/fuel mixture will) so there shouldn't be any nasty surprises waiting to be discovered during disassembly. There is just no way to predict these kinds of failures though the 4.0 does seem to be one of the motors from Detroit that seems to have a slightly "higher than normal" incidence of this kind of failure. I have yet to hear of anyone having any complaints after this type of repair and you should have many miles of relatively trouble free motoring left in your car. I was a little shy at first - it's close to Xmas and I think I've ruined more than a couple of Xmas budgets in the last week - something I dislike doing. __________________ Jim Warman '92 XL 4X4

12-17-2001, 09:07 AM	#6
MeatWagon Wannabe Elite Explorer Philadelphia , PA 94 XLT Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 38 Vehicle Specs	blownhead gasket First off , sorry to hear about your engine trouble . I just went thru the same thing , but luckily I have some mechanical skills and a shop and mechanic to help with large problems . I don't want to ruin your holiday but that is an expensive repair . Hopefully you didn't crack or warp a head . To put it in laymans terms , they have to remove the whole top end of your engine . Not a fun job . If you don't need a head then the parts should be -a top end gasket set( 2-3 hundred) torque to yeild bolts (around $100) and an EGR valve gasket ($3) then labor (alot!) . Oh I forgot coolant . For a skilled mechanic , it's about a 11/2 - 2 day job . Good luck !

12-27-2001, 01:43 AM	#7
Deadfish Wannabe Elite Explorer Boise, Idaho 1996 XLT Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	New problem - smells like burning rubber Hi again, Thanks so much for the help with the last problem. I had the service department make the repairs, which included replacing a cylinder head and some gaskets. However, now while driving, the engine compartment smells like there is rubber burning. Does anybody have any idea what would be causing this or if it might be normal? My first thought is that a gasket may be against the engine block, but I don't think they are made of rubber. As you might tell, I'm not as savvy with mechanical goings-on as I'd like to be. Also, are the Chilton or other repair manuals handy to have around? I've hear mixed reviews about them, but I am considering getting one to help me out with these types of things. Thanks so much again, J. Wolfe

12-12-2001, 01:49 AM	#3
Deadfish Wannabe Elite Explorer Boise, Idaho 1996 XLT Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Thanks for the quick reply. Now that you mention it, I think the service guy said that the cylinder heads needed replacing. I can't remember exactly which gasket he said that failed. He said that green film was burnt onto the cylinder heads and that a white crust had formed on the engine from the leaking coolant. I apologize for not having all the technical knowledge or terms down. He seemed straightforward and hasn't given me a reason to mistrust him. He did give me a pretty detailed estimate over the phone as well. Its just frustrating because it seemed to be running like a champ just 3 days ago. Is this something that can recur later, or will the repair be solid enough to not be concerned about? I know that the quality of the repair itself plays a big part, I just don't know how involved or messy this particular problem is. Thanks again so much for your help -J. Wolfe

12-12-2001, 10:20 AM	#5
Deadfish Wannabe Elite Explorer Boise, Idaho 1996 XLT Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 4 Vehicle Specs (Original Poster)	Thanks again for your post. This has probably been the best board I've been on for quick, informative responses. I feel a little better about what I am getting myself into now. I hear you though, this Christmas is going to be a little rough. The repairs to the Explorer are going to cost me about a months salary. Argh. Oh well, if car trouble is the biggest problem my family has this year, then I guess we have it okay. Thanks again for your help. Have a great holiday season. -J. Wolfe

12-27-2001, 08:54 AM	#8
MeatWagon Wannabe Elite Explorer Philadelphia , PA 94 XLT Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 38 Vehicle Specs	Burnning rubber ? The first thing you should look for is wires against the exhuast manifold . You might have a plug wire getting hot by laying on the exhuast . As far as having a manual around , it's always a good thing . If you have some mechanical skills it will help you learn new stuff . Get the Chiltons Manual if you have the cash . They are expensive . Thanks to Chiltons , I learned how to do the head work on my engine . If your not mechanicaly inclined , stick with going to a mechanic . Just make sure you trust them . Let us know if you find the smell .