Robert
Explorer Addict
- Joined
- October 26, 1999
- Messages
- 3,948
- Reaction score
- 4
- Location
- CA
- City, State
- Kelseyville, CA
- Year, Model & Trim Level
- '13 Ram 1500 Longhorn
This is a very long post about my recent experience with a Lincoln Mercury dealer here in Mesa Arizona. The short of it is I had a high idle that manifested itself into a cooling issue. Both due to a thermostat sticking closed. For those of you that want to read the entire story, read on...
I took my '97 SOHC Explorer into the dealer last Wednesday because my idle has been running higher than normal for the last week. It would idle at 1100 in Drive and 1400 in Park. It took noticeably more effort to stop and jammed into Drive and Reverse when going from one to the other. It didn't happen until the engine was up to operating temperature though. I told the dealer it had to be driven for 4-5 miles before it will happen. Anyway, I dropped it off last Wednesday at 7:00. I called the dealer around 2:00 and was told there was a recall on the throttlebody so the Technician believes that will fix the idle problem. I explained to the Service Advisor that the throttle body had recently been replaced due to it sticking closed, however it was before it was an actual recall. It didn't matter, it has a recall so they will go ahead and put another one on. I stopped by to pick my Explorer up around 5:00 nothing that the only thing they did was replace my throttle body and considered it fixed. I got about 2 1/2 miles away when my idle was running high again. I turned around and went back to the dealership to complain. On the way back, I looked at my invoice and noticed that the mileage in matched the mileage out. How could they diagnose a high idle problem that doesn't occur until its been driven for 4-5 miles without actually driving it after they supposedly fixed it? The Technician hooked up his scanner to it and told me that all of my readiness checks haven't been completed yet so he can't troubleshoot anymore until I drive it for about a week. I had disconnected the batter a few days earlier to remove my Superchip and just to see if that would fix my high idle. I told him that I had disconnected the battery but didn't mention the SuperChip. He suggested that I drive it around for a week and when all of the readiness checks were complete he could find out why it was idleing too high. The next morning on the way to work I decided to hook up my own scanner to it to see what was going on. As I was cycling through the different sensors I noticed my coolant was running 240F which put it a bit below the H. I drove it back to the dealership to tell them it was now running hot, and ask them to look again. The Service Advisor then told me that the Technician said I had to drive it around for a week before he could troubleshoot it anymore. I told him that I would not drive it around for a week with it running 240F when it was only 50F outside in light traffic. He then tried to tell me that 240F is about where it is supposed to run anyway. I then told him how I have a scanner and on the various times I have looked at the temperature it has never varied outside of 190F-200F. By that time the shop Foreman came by while I was argueing with the Service Advisor with 4 or 5 customers standing around eaves dropping. He suggested to the Service Advisor that he have the Technician connect his scanner to it and go for a quick drive. When I explained the same situation to the Technician he tried telling me that he never trusts those "cheap hand-held consumer scanners". 90% of the time they are way off on something. He hooked his up and after about a block I asked him what his was reading. His was also reading 240F, but he told me it isn't actually overheating since he didn't think the Check Engine light would come on until it hit 255F. I told him that the freeway during this afternoon's rush-hour was no place to have it overheat on me so he agreed to take it back in and give it another look. Since the coolant was hot though he couldn't look at it until that afternoon. I reminded him that I replaced the hoses and belt in November and their dealership replaced the waterpump in December. The Service Advisor called me back that afternoon to tell me that since I had installed Extended life anti-freeze in my radiator, he had to do a complete systems flush to get it out. He said it could not be mixed with the green conventional anti-freeze. I explained to him that he is confusing the extended life anti-freeze with GM's Dex-cool which can not be combined with conventional anti-freeze. He then told me his Technician said it was separating so he wouldn't do anything else to it until I authorized him to do a power flush. When I called back the next day, the Service Advisor told me that the problem was the thermostat had stuck closed and it is ready to be picked up. I brought the bottle of extended life anti-freeze I used as well as a bottle of the standard green anti-freeze when I went to pick it up. I also mixed the two together in a 1 gallon, clear container to see if they separated. They didn't, all they did was turn brown from the green and oarange. I also looked at the extended life bottle, and it states "May be mixed with all conventional anti-freezes as well as GM Dex-cool. If Peak extended life anti-freeze is mixed with conventional anti-freeze though, the life of the solution will be reduced to that of the standard anti-freeze". When I got the invoice there was a charge for $89.95 for the power flush. I argued again with the same Service Advisor that first of all, the two solutions could be mixed together, it says so right on the bottle as well as the other 4 brands of extended life anti-freeze I looked at when I stopped at Pep Boys. And besides, if they have a problem with mixing the two together, they were the ones that mixed them back in December when they replaced my waterpump. He then went on about how I authorized him to do the power flush. Regardless of how much I argued with him, he wouldn't budge. So I asked if the Service Manager was in. He was so we went into his office. The Manager called in the two Technicians that had worked on it, asked for everyone's view of what happened and then asked the Technician what ultimately fixed the heat problem. The Technician said putting in a new thermostat fixed it. The Manager then asked me what I was asking for, and I told him I didn't feel I should be charged for a power flush on my radiator when my coolant was 3 months old, was mixed by them, and due to their misinformation was forced into approving the power flush. He told the Service Advisor to back the power flush charge off of my invoice. It was a long, quiet walk back to the cashier with the Service Advisor while he went to comply.
I took my '97 SOHC Explorer into the dealer last Wednesday because my idle has been running higher than normal for the last week. It would idle at 1100 in Drive and 1400 in Park. It took noticeably more effort to stop and jammed into Drive and Reverse when going from one to the other. It didn't happen until the engine was up to operating temperature though. I told the dealer it had to be driven for 4-5 miles before it will happen. Anyway, I dropped it off last Wednesday at 7:00. I called the dealer around 2:00 and was told there was a recall on the throttlebody so the Technician believes that will fix the idle problem. I explained to the Service Advisor that the throttle body had recently been replaced due to it sticking closed, however it was before it was an actual recall. It didn't matter, it has a recall so they will go ahead and put another one on. I stopped by to pick my Explorer up around 5:00 nothing that the only thing they did was replace my throttle body and considered it fixed. I got about 2 1/2 miles away when my idle was running high again. I turned around and went back to the dealership to complain. On the way back, I looked at my invoice and noticed that the mileage in matched the mileage out. How could they diagnose a high idle problem that doesn't occur until its been driven for 4-5 miles without actually driving it after they supposedly fixed it? The Technician hooked up his scanner to it and told me that all of my readiness checks haven't been completed yet so he can't troubleshoot anymore until I drive it for about a week. I had disconnected the batter a few days earlier to remove my Superchip and just to see if that would fix my high idle. I told him that I had disconnected the battery but didn't mention the SuperChip. He suggested that I drive it around for a week and when all of the readiness checks were complete he could find out why it was idleing too high. The next morning on the way to work I decided to hook up my own scanner to it to see what was going on. As I was cycling through the different sensors I noticed my coolant was running 240F which put it a bit below the H. I drove it back to the dealership to tell them it was now running hot, and ask them to look again. The Service Advisor then told me that the Technician said I had to drive it around for a week before he could troubleshoot it anymore. I told him that I would not drive it around for a week with it running 240F when it was only 50F outside in light traffic. He then tried to tell me that 240F is about where it is supposed to run anyway. I then told him how I have a scanner and on the various times I have looked at the temperature it has never varied outside of 190F-200F. By that time the shop Foreman came by while I was argueing with the Service Advisor with 4 or 5 customers standing around eaves dropping. He suggested to the Service Advisor that he have the Technician connect his scanner to it and go for a quick drive. When I explained the same situation to the Technician he tried telling me that he never trusts those "cheap hand-held consumer scanners". 90% of the time they are way off on something. He hooked his up and after about a block I asked him what his was reading. His was also reading 240F, but he told me it isn't actually overheating since he didn't think the Check Engine light would come on until it hit 255F. I told him that the freeway during this afternoon's rush-hour was no place to have it overheat on me so he agreed to take it back in and give it another look. Since the coolant was hot though he couldn't look at it until that afternoon. I reminded him that I replaced the hoses and belt in November and their dealership replaced the waterpump in December. The Service Advisor called me back that afternoon to tell me that since I had installed Extended life anti-freeze in my radiator, he had to do a complete systems flush to get it out. He said it could not be mixed with the green conventional anti-freeze. I explained to him that he is confusing the extended life anti-freeze with GM's Dex-cool which can not be combined with conventional anti-freeze. He then told me his Technician said it was separating so he wouldn't do anything else to it until I authorized him to do a power flush. When I called back the next day, the Service Advisor told me that the problem was the thermostat had stuck closed and it is ready to be picked up. I brought the bottle of extended life anti-freeze I used as well as a bottle of the standard green anti-freeze when I went to pick it up. I also mixed the two together in a 1 gallon, clear container to see if they separated. They didn't, all they did was turn brown from the green and oarange. I also looked at the extended life bottle, and it states "May be mixed with all conventional anti-freezes as well as GM Dex-cool. If Peak extended life anti-freeze is mixed with conventional anti-freeze though, the life of the solution will be reduced to that of the standard anti-freeze". When I got the invoice there was a charge for $89.95 for the power flush. I argued again with the same Service Advisor that first of all, the two solutions could be mixed together, it says so right on the bottle as well as the other 4 brands of extended life anti-freeze I looked at when I stopped at Pep Boys. And besides, if they have a problem with mixing the two together, they were the ones that mixed them back in December when they replaced my waterpump. He then went on about how I authorized him to do the power flush. Regardless of how much I argued with him, he wouldn't budge. So I asked if the Service Manager was in. He was so we went into his office. The Manager called in the two Technicians that had worked on it, asked for everyone's view of what happened and then asked the Technician what ultimately fixed the heat problem. The Technician said putting in a new thermostat fixed it. The Manager then asked me what I was asking for, and I told him I didn't feel I should be charged for a power flush on my radiator when my coolant was 3 months old, was mixed by them, and due to their misinformation was forced into approving the power flush. He told the Service Advisor to back the power flush charge off of my invoice. It was a long, quiet walk back to the cashier with the Service Advisor while he went to comply.
