Trans swap ?'s

[4pullingGM]

First off, i'm not sure if this is the correct forum for this question, but it does involve transmissions. I've been working on my father in laws new project, it is a 48 Mercury body thats mounted on a Ford Ranger frame and has a 302 and a C4. One of the changes that I am going to make on this thing is swap out the C4 for a 5 speed manual, it's an old hot rod, it NEEDS to have a manual trans and the over drive will be nice as well. I'm not sure yet if I'm going to use an M5OD from an F150 or go the T5 route. I'm kind of leaning towards the M5OD since there are several to choose from in our local salvage yard, and I'm familiar with these transmissions and their application (trucks). I know I'll have to rig up the hydraulics for the slave cylinder, but I've got parts trucks at my disposal. However, the T5 is smaller and would probably fit better in the trans tunnel of this thing with out too much trouble. This is more "mustang" territory, so I'm not as well versed with what all it will need to swap one in. My question for now has to do with the cable actuated clutch, how easy is this system to retro fit into applications that didn't originally come with it? Once I determine which trans I'm gonna use, then I'll worry about clutch/flywheel requirements. Thanks for reading through my ramblings and for any insight you may have.

 

[imp]

First off, i'm not sure if this is the correct forum for this question, but it does involve transmissions. I've been working on my father in laws new project, it is a 48 Mercury body thats mounted on a Ford Ranger frame and has a 302 and a C4. One of the changes that I am going to make on this thing is swap out the C4 for a 5 speed manual, it's an old hot rod, it NEEDS to have a manual trans and the over drive will be nice as well. I'm not sure yet if I'm going to use an M5OD from an F150 or go the T5 route. I'm kind of leaning towards the M5OD since there are several to choose from in our local salvage yard, and I'm familiar with these transmissions and their application (trucks). I know I'll have to rig up the hydraulics for the slave cylinder, but I've got parts trucks at my disposal. However, the T5 is smaller and would probably fit better in the trans tunnel of this thing with out too much trouble. This is more "mustang" territory, so I'm not as well versed with what all it will need to swap one in. My question for now has to do with the cable actuated clutch, how easy is this system to retro fit into applications that didn't originally come with it? Once I determine which trans I'm gonna use, then I'll worry about clutch/flywheel requirements. Thanks for reading through my ramblings and for any insight you may have.

The Mustang cable-actuated clutch release as you probably know, uses a plastic quadrant, a segment of a circle, about 3" in radius, onto which the cable is wound, as the clutch pedal is depressed. This system requires a fairly "staunch" mounting on the firewall, which fastens the cable housing in place, and is acted upon by cable forces. The bottom end would be all stock stuff, including the release arm and cable mount bracket. Your application is already pretty "unstock", out of the ordinary, so fitting up a Mustang clutch pedal assembly should be no huge undertaking. The quadrant uses a spring-loaded pawl, which advances to "fresh" teeth as the clutch disc wears, thus needing no adjustment for wear; clutch pedal "free-play" is built-in. This was years back a huge issue, as a throw-out bearing running constantly against the clutch pressure plate's release fingers wore them out, and caused less than maximum clutch pressure to be present, "slip" being the result under heavy torque. The Mustang diaphragm clutch type is pretty bullet-proof, lasts a long time, and my only real objection to it is the plastic quadrant, which came from the factory. Aluminum quadrants are (were?) available in aftermarket.

Regarding M5OD vs. T-5, for your application I would personally prefer the T-5 due to it's inherent low-inertia shifting mechanism. The M5 is a TRUCK item, with big shifter, long throw, no real "snap-shift" ability. The bigger M5s are stronger, but considering that the T-5 was successfully used in the "comeback" Cobra (I had one!) in 1993, your 302, unless it's "full-balls-out" modified, would never "tax" a T-5.

Just my 2 cents. Please keep us aware of your progress, I'm eager to hear! imp

 

[4pullingGM]

Thanks for your input! The 302 is basically stock for now, 600 cfm Holley 4 barrel, headers, and dual exhaust. My father in law wants to put tri power on it and I've got him talked into a bit more cam, nothing crazy. It's going to mostly be a fun to drive cruiser that looks cool and sounds mean. I'll have to check at the yard to see if there are some mustangs out there so I can see if the clutch quadrant can be adapted to fit under the dash. In traditional hotrod fashion, we are doing this with parts we find/have laying around/fabricate. It's been a fun project so far.

 

[imp]

Thanks for your input! The 302 is basically stock for now, 600 cfm Holley 4 barrel, headers, and dual exhaust. My father in law wants to put tri power on it and I've got him talked into a bit more cam, nothing crazy. It's going to mostly be a fun to drive cruiser that looks cool and sounds mean. I'll have to check at the yard to see if there are some mustangs out there so I can see if the clutch quadrant can be adapted to fit under the dash. In traditional hotrod fashion, we are doing this with parts we find/have laying around/fabricate. It's been a fun project so far.

2 alternatives, re: the clutch release mechanism, of course are a "juice-clutch" system, swiped off some vehicle using that, or to build-up a custom mechanical linkage yourself.

Now: T-5s use a removable bell housing, pivot the release arm BACKWARDS from that of mechanical systems. By backwards, I mean the cable PULLS the release fork towards the FRONT of the vehicle, where the mechanical system PUSHES it towards the rear of the vehicle. Mechanical simply has a knife edge pivot on which the fork rests, it's mounted to the rear inside of the bell housing, located between the input shaft and the outer hole through which the arm passes. Cable operated system has a pivot which is pinned, located between input shaft and RIGHT side of bell housing, so the release arm can actuate the throwout bearing while being pulled forwards, towards the front of the vehicle, by the cable.

Now: M5OD does not have a removable bellhousing, I believe. This complicates matters for the release mechanism. I had a '96 F-150 with M5OD, which used a hydraulic release system, master & slave cylinders. If you choose M5OD, that juice system might be the easiest answer for operating the clutch.

If you have need for it, I have a '95 Mustang 5.0L HO engine as supplied from Ford brand-new under the Motorsports Racing Program. I bought 6 of them, only one is left. It has never been run. Came from Ford with all accessories attached, fuel injectors, fuel rail, intake manifolds, exh. manifolds, plugs, wires, distributor, water pump, everything but a starter. It has a brand new diaphragm clutch assembly bolted to it's flywheel, the bell housing for T5 use is sold, but if you are interested in the engine, or just the clutch assembly, give me an email at jack.brady39@yahoo.com. The clutch is yours for fifty bucks, you pay shipping, if you want it. More info on engine? email. imp

 

[4pullingGM]

Thanks for the info! You are correct, the M5OD does not have a removeable bellhousing. I have the pedals and clutch master cylinder out of a Ranger that my sister rolled, thats part of the reason I was leaning towards the M5OD, just using what I've got layin around lol I'll see whats available as far as T5 stuff this weekend. I figure I should show y'all what I'm working on here

Youd never guess that it was on a Ford Ranger frame!

 

[imp]

Beautiful!! God damn it, I wish I was young again for just a little while! imp

 

[4pullingGM]

Thanks! I'll let you know bout the clutch and stuff, what did you do with all those engines? Use'm all in projects? Well, today I found 1 t5 that's in a thunderbird super coupe, and 1 m5OD from a 2wd f150. $250 for the trans and pedals for either one, but I have to pull whichever one I decide on.... The truck trans looks way easier to pull out than the car, considering it will be at the junkyard, no hoist or air tools. What to do, what to do?

 

[imp]

T-5 shift lever bolts on, M5OD you remove the lever from the top of the transmission, if I recall correctly there is possibility then of foreign crap getting into the box.

T-5 always seemed to shift more smoothly for me, have had 'em in '89, 90, 93 Mustangs, '70 Bronco with EFI 5.0L HO out of Mustang.

Only had one M5, '96 F-150. It often felt a bit "raspy" going into 2nd. gear, but not all the time. Maybe just that one trans, not all of them like that, shift length of "throw" way more with M5, lever could be shortened.

Looks like you have plenty of room to work! Nice place! imp

 

[4pullingGM]

After going over stuff with the father in law, he decided that the t5 would suit him better. I was kinda pulling for the m5od, mostly because it's not as mainstream of a swap I guess, I usually go for the underdog lol So now I'll be needing a flywheel and clutch for an older, non HO 302. I'm assuming the mustang 5.0 clutch will work, I'm not sure bout the flywheel though. I'm assuming the 5.0 HO flywheel won't work due due balancing issues since the firing orders are different.

 

[4pullingGM]

Well heck, turns out I was wrong.... The thunderbird super coupes don't use a t5, they use an m5r2, which is a variation of the m5od.... Lol

 

[imp]

After going over stuff with the father in law, he decided that the t5 would suit him better. I was kinda pulling for the m5od, mostly because it's not as mainstream of a swap I guess, I usually go for the underdog lol So now I'll be needing a flywheel and clutch for an older, non HO 302. I'm assuming the mustang 5.0 clutch will work, I'm not sure bout the flywheel though. I'm assuming the 5.0 HO flywheel won't work due due balancing issues since the firing orders are different.

If flywheel has correct balance weight, I think, but am not positive it will be OK regardless of firing order. Research that for certainty. I am using a tablet away from my PC, so limited, sorry. The t-5's i've seen have a typical 10-spline input shaft, but beware in '95 mustang went to a 3/4 inch deeper bell housing, so trans. snout was longer, that may have been the t-45 trans or longer t-5, not sure.. imp

 

[4pullingGM]

Not a problem sir, youv'e been very helpful, thanks. You are correct, it's not the firing order that affects the balance, it's the weighting of the crankshaft. The early engines, pre 81 or so, had a 28 oz balance. The newer ones are 50 oz. I'll have to find the numbers on this block because I have no idea what year this engine is. I needed to find out before we could order the cam for it anyway.

I'm not totally sold on the M5R2 from that super coupe, it's kind of an odd duck. The super coupe seems to be the only place that trans was used, so there wern't that many made. And from what i've been reading, they have some funky fiber/plastic synchros that wear/break easily.

 

[ranger7ltr]

The SC tranny is not weak...

This tranny actually uses a combo throwout bearing/slave cylinder which by using an Explorer/Ranger clutch master cylinder solves your release issues...AS for as strength I used one of these behind a stroked 5 liter in a Scorpio sedan for years and managed to break the rubber coupling used in the drivetrain... It is a nice fit especially if the tunnel is on the narrow side...

I also have a Lightning engine that is stroked as well in my 99 Explorer that I am thinking of going to manual from auto... I would use it again when I decide to get serious and go manual in the 99 Sport...

 

[4pullingGM]

That is good to hear! Because we decided yesterday to use the M5R2 since it will probably be more suited for car use. Plans are made, we're going on saturday to yank it out. It may be a bit before we get it in the Mercury, but at least we'll have it. Plans are to use the clutch, flywheel, and starter from an F150 with a 302. Although, it sounds like I can use the stuff from the tbird, but I will have to have the flywheel balanced for the 302 since the 3.8 uses a zero balance flywheel. I'll keep y'all posted. Thanks for your help!

 

[4pullingGM]

So last Saturday was a success. Got the transmission out of the car and ended up swiping the pedals out of an F150. I went with these pedals because the hydraulics are to the right of the master cylinder and in this car there is no room on the left hand side. I'll have to shorten the pedals up to make'm fit in the car. Tomorrow I'll pull the starter off so I can get the casting numbers off the block so I can figure out what year this engine is. Turns out this 90 Super Coupe is a 35th anniversary edition, there was only around 3,300 made!