F150 vs F250 (gas vs. diesel)

[lonestar]

My ole Explorer runs great, although it leaks oil all over the drive. Started pulling boat last summer, does OK, although I can tell it is back there, so I thought it may be a good time to upgrade, so I came back to my to favorite place for auto advice and info.

I started looking at F150 Supercrews, and they seem high. Average 02 Supercrew 4x4 is around $12-13K with 100K on odometer. I could pick up an Expidition around $3-4K less, but I was wanting a bed since my wife drives the new Explorer, I guess that is why the Supercrew holds its value.

I also have a chance to pick-up my uncles 02 F250 4x4 Supercab 7.3 Diesel, with Banks kit (or similiar), 4" exahust, and bypass oil filter system always running Amsiol for $16K. Seems like a good deal, but I'm just a little concerned on diesel operating costs (15qt oil changes, batteries, part costs, and keeping it plugged-in during cold weather.

Any opinions?

 

[snoborder42]

It really depends on what you plan to use it for... If you're going to tow a lot, I would go with the diesel but if you just tow occasionally go with gas.

 

[tdavis]

As crazy as this may seem..

The Superduty will get better gas milage than the Supercrew, and tow way better.

However, the cost of Diesel vs Gas could kill that difference.

 

[Stic-o]

I actually have the same problem. '04+ 150 Supercrew 5.4 or '99+ 250 4 door diesel.

I look at it this way. First I need a 4 door, with a kid on the way, but I also want the bed. The only reason to buy a truck like this is so I can tow, other wise I'd just get a sport track or something or even a car. But I only need to tow maybe dozen time a year. This would also be my daily driver, so milage is nice, and something easy to drive, so if the wife drives it she is comfortable. I'm sorry to say though parking a 4 door SD everyday would be no picinic So I think for me I'm going to go with a supercrew. I mite even wait till ford has there $299 lease special again. I heard the '09' 150's are going to be pretty cool, with a 4.4 diesel option

 

[gbb]

Like one post says, it depends.

I just sold a '99 F250 CC PSD. It was a 2 WD XLT SWB. I absolutely loved it. I bought it new, had a Banks "Power Pack" package (his most powerful at the time) installed and drove it for 280,000 almost trouble free miles. Water pump, alternator, cam sensor, all done by me for a total maintainence cost of less than $500 for 280,000 miles. The Banks package was $4500.00 installed and worth every penny. It had great power, towed like a devil and unloaded, not towing would constantly deliver 22 mpg @ 75mph and 18-19 around town. I will probably never own another auto that dependable and sweet to drive.

Now with that said, manuvering the beast in tight places was the down side.

I was ready for something new and quit traveling/towing as much, so I opted for a 2008 Sport Trac V8.

I kinda of miss the Super Duty's raw power, road burning prowess and towing capability, but like I said, my days of towing 1500 or more miles twice a month are over.

If you are gonna tow a long way or even real often, The 7.3 pSD is the real deal.

For short hops and around town driving, the gas motors are probably better.

BTW, my '99 with 280K was slick, loaded and had good rubber, the Banks deal and a nice Snug Top cap. It brought $15900.00.

 

[lonestar]

Not sure what to do.... I don't really tow that much, 3500lb boat maybe 20 miles to river twice a month and 75 miles to lake 2-3 times during summer.

As crazy as this may seem..
The Superduty will get better gas milage than the Supercrew, and tow way better.

Funny, my uncle actually gets better mileage with his 7.3L F250 than his 5.0 Explorer.

Main issue is SuperCrew vs Supercab and concerned with unknown diesel operating/maintenance costs.

Basically, should I need to justify the need for a diesel, or would the diesel be a better purchase regardless of my need. It just seems I have a chance to get a great deal on diesel, especially when compared to "high mileage" (100K) F150 Supercrews.

02 F150 4x4 Supercrew 5.4L 100K for around $13K+ on Autotrader
or
02 F250 4x4 Supercab 7.3L 100+K for $16K (w/ extras, exhaust, Power programs, bypass filter)


What kinda life (mileage) should you get out of a diesel?

 

[lonestar]

How can I compare mileage? Say a

5.4L gas with 100k, vs 7.3L with 150K....

Browsing autotrader, I see Superduty diesels for not much more than the F150 Supercrews although they may have 50-75K more miles, I hear that is nothing.

 

[tdavis]

What kinda life (mileage) should you get out of a diesel?

I have 100k on my 01' PSD, and it has a few problems, mostly minor (ie, replaced the clutch because the Edge juice killed it, and a bad power door lock.)

300k+miles easy out of the engine.

150k-200k out a automatic transmission, if it's never been touched; 100k for the 6speed clutch.

15k per fuel filter, 5k per oil change, 15 quarts plus oil filter

 

[90ranajo]

International rates the T466 (i.e. 7.3L PSD) for a 300-400k mile service life. Whereas Ford rates their gas engines at around 150k mile service life.
There are a several trucks on TheDieselStop.com that are trouble free with over 500k on the clock. One guy has a '02 with 800k+ miles now, with no troubles.

 

[Dannyboy]

Do it yourself oil changes on a Superduty are about $45-50, I buy my oil by the case at Costco and filters are $17. You will pay $80 at a jiffy luber.

Diesel fuel is expensive right now, you were right. When one battery goes, they both need to be changed typically (again Costco for $75).

I had great luck with the 7.3 diesels, but my last Excursion had 100k, I did need to drop in an injector, couple glow plugs and wiring harnesses. All the shops I use refer me to the Ford Dealer to work on my diesels. I really don't like using the dealer but I haven't found a preferred diesel mechanic. If a turbo blows on these it can get expensive, but you can find them on ebay for $3-500.

As for mileage, lifted on 37s or 38s I was getting 11-12 but better if I drove really easy, my '00 stock 2wd excursion that I only owned for 10K miles was only getting like 14-16. I would have hoped for better mileage on something that looked so gay. If you get an older truck you may need to drop in some repairs (air filter, fuel filters, etc to get to the good 17-18 some guys are able to brag about). Some of these can get expensive.

I personally would stay away from the 6.0, it gets worse economy than the 7.3 and I've had plenty of problems. Ford warrranty is nice, but my truck has spent the following in the shop in the past year.
3 weeks-EGR cooler, Ford approval for head gaskets, test heads
1 day- a/c line hookup, recharge after it wasn't filled after head gaskets
2 weeks- turbo
2 days- air conditioning
3 days- air conditioning to get done right
2 days- power steering/brake pump
1 day- power steering/brake pump to get done right

so the warranty has taken care of my truck, however it has been down 6 1/2 weeks (that's 12.5% of the year without my truck). Ford will not cover a loaner.


Advantages of a higher mileage gas truck
Anybody will repair them, you can repair them, can still tow 7500 lbs without a problem, no turbo to repair/replace, only 1 battery to replace, cheaper oil changes.

Advantages of diesel
mileage, can tow up a hill and pass cars, can juice them up and have a sportscar and full size truck, but expect that kind of repairs and fuel economy.

 

[Stic-o]

I wouldn't touch a pre '04 5.4 motor with the spark plug issue going around. I have heard quite a bit of this problem including my father and uncle. The pre '04 5.4's have a design flaw in the the head casting, which causes the spark plug to shoot out the side of the engine with the threads. The only fix then is replacing the head, which is quite a few thousand dollers for ford to fix I hear. in 04 they redesigned the head and gave it another valve, which I belive solved the problem. I think for a few grand more it's worth it. I've been looking at a '05 Supercrew with 34k on it for $18,999. Unfortunatly timing is not good right now

 

[Dannyboy]

If anyone is ever wondering "hard" value of a vehicle I have a username and password to Manheim auctions.

Most times I can find the exact truck that is being sold in ebay by some of these power sellers. Auctions show city, year, trim package, engine, mileage and color. It's funny to see a dealer buy a car at auction, post an ebay auction with a few pics, ten more miles on a truck and try to make a quick $5,000.

For your reference I have found most of my autos at "Manheim" price which is true sales that have actually happened opposed to NADA or KBB prices of what we hope stuff will sell for. It's a good barometer to see how good of a deal you are getting or if you should keep shopping

 

[JMan689]

However, the cost of Diesel vs Gas could kill that difference.

Depends on where you live, out here near Chicago driving a diesel will actually save you as it sits steadily at 3 dollars a gallon.

Personally i've always wanted a diesel so i'd get the 250 and throw a set of stacks on it.

 

[Stic-o]

Here Diesel is about .20 cents more then premium right now, so your looking at $3.80-$4.00 a gallon right now

 

[JMan689]

Thats horrible, premuim out here is i think around 3.40 - 3.80? I know regular is jumping between 2.80 and 3.20.

 

[lonestar]

'05 Supercrew with 34k on it for $18,999.

Thats what I really want.... Although I would prefer manual tranny, hard to find in SuperCrew. I would also prefer 6 spd tranny in a SuperDuty.

I'm just looking for best bang for buck. To simplify everything

100K 5.4 150 Supercrew 13-14K
125K 7.3 250 SuperCab 16K

The Big queston is Should I be pulling a 5000# trailler to justify purchasing a diesel, or would deisel be better choice regardless. Personally I can't see myself driving a diesel, mostly because of clatter and no real need, but hey, if it's a better choice, than why try to convince myself not to.

In general, what are compared maintenance/repair costs? I read somewhere that that with better MPG and longer life expectancy, that diesel engines are actually cheaper in the longterm.

However everyone has that horror story with repair costs out the roof. 02 EX for example, after buying one I was scared to death with all the stories on this board about diff and trany probs, but with 75K on the clock I have no probs, alhtough I did address rear driveshaft seals before I lost my diff fluid.

 

[lonestar]

If anyone is ever wondering "hard" value of a vehicle I have a username and password to Manheim auctions.

I would like to check out some auction prices, other than EBAY.

 

[sjr033]

Well you know the history of your Uncle's truck. I would hope that he is not selling you a lemon. Just knowing the history is a big selling point for me, expecially with those miles. Also I would think that the diesel will hold its value better. Like they all have said it is way easier to build power with the turbo diesel. Also if you ever want to lift it, it has solid front axle with leaf springs. I know I would buy the diesel. But my recommendation is to drive them both for a weekend and see which one rides better to you. Take them to the mall or grocery store and park them both. My work truck is a '97 f150 supercab w/ 8' bed, man that thing is long.

 

[lonestar]

Well, uncle just T-boned a little Honda CRV, she ran the stop sign, $7K+ in damages. Insurance guy couldn't get the hood open, may be close to a total. Can't beleive a little CRV would damage a 250 that much.

If he gets it back, it's still for sell, w/ all new doghouse stuff, radiator, coolers, ect.... Don't know though, they say once a vehicle is wreck it's never the same. But I also know guys that have bought salvage titles for half blue book and drove them 100K+ miles.

 

[Stic-o]

I wouldn't touch a pre '04 5.4 motor with the spark plug issue going around. I have heard quite a bit of this problem including my father and uncle. The pre '04 5.4's have a design flaw in the the head casting, which causes the spark plug to shoot out the side of the engine with the threads. The only fix then is replacing the head, which is quite a few thousand dollers for ford to fix I hear. in 04 they redesigned the head and gave it another valve, which I belive solved the problem. I think for a few grand more it's worth it. I've been looking at a '05 Supercrew with 34k on it for $18,999. Unfortunatly timing is not good right now

I ended up buying this exsact truck Lov'n it!