Alignment Issue - Help!!

[fhsredcats06]

1999 Explorer XLT 5.0L AWD

2-3 months ago I went to our local tire shop and asked for new tires and an alignment. The shop ordered the tires and we scheduled an appointment a few days later. I got to the shop the day of the appt. and they got started. Twenty minutes later or so, they call me into the garage to speak with me about something. The new tires were on and looked great, but there were a few issues.

They said all the steering/suspension/sway bars/mounts etc. looked fine. They said I am due for changing the upper and lower ball joints (fine). They said I may be due for new shocks (fine). But what threw me off was they said that the alignment could not be completed because from the factory, Explorers came with non-adjustable caster/camber hardware.

According to the tire shop, the caster/camber could not be adjusted because of the square washer that Ford installed. The two pictures show the square washer that the shop pointed out to me. These are located on the driver's side upper a-arm towards the rear of the truck. The shop said that a camber/caster adjustment kit would need to be ordered and they would have to swap it in. Altogether, (caster/camber kit, upper & lower ball joints, plus labor including the installation of both of these components plus the alignment) I was quoted approximately $800.

Does this sound right? Is the caster/camber kit really necessary? Am I being overcharged/duped?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

 

[yavapaires]

I have never in my 64+ years seen a front end that could not be adjusted. A caster/camber kit may be needed, but I would be looking for a better knowledged shop to do the work. Hell, I would look on Craigs List under Services,Automotive, before I would let these guys work on it. Do you have any indications that you do, in fact, need an alignment? Toe in you can do yourself, if needed.

 

[fhsredcats06]

Do you have any indications that you do, in fact, need an alignment?

Yes, I do need an alignment. I have really bad negative camber that destroyed the last set of tires (uneven inside-outside wearing).

I think I will get a second opinion from a different shop. Thanks.

 

[yavapaires]

Good luck, and be wary!

 

[drdoom]

There is a kit you need put in the upper control arm bushing area, and it can be a major PITA to install. They know that, and probably just passed on it. Search YouTube there is a vid on it.

 

[RomeovilleIL]

Camber kits were designed for lowered street mod trucks. Using them as a crutch to overcome items which need to be fixed is a mistake.

Having severe negative camber is almost always a sign of: ball joints gone bad and/or lowered front end (either on purpose by adjustment of torsion bars or worn/broken suspension). I would say 95%+ of the vehicles at stock height can be adjusted perfectly with the existing hardware.

We know the ball joints are bad. That is a serious safety hazard. If you hit a pothole or curb and it lets go, you will have a severely bad accident. Not to mention they make steering & handling crappy.

Assuming you aren't running lowered on purpose, someone might have lowered the front end to match up sagging rear leafs resulting in the negative camber. Best advice is replace the ball joints (cheap parts, high labor) and get the torsion bars properly set. These aren't terribly diffult jobs to do on your own. Check the stickies and search around here for instructions.

 

[my98nnj]

What is most alarming about the local tire shop is this.

They said all the steering/suspension/sway bars/mounts etc. looked fine.

And then they tell you this??

They said I am due for changing the upper and lower ball joints (fine). They said I may be due for new shocks (fine).

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't the above all fall under "suspension" which they told you "looked fine."??

Seriously run as fast as you can from that shop and find yourself a new mechanic.

 

[fhsredcats06]

Maybe it's just me, but doesn't the above all fall under "suspension" which they told you "looked fine."??

I just meant that none of the rods, brackets, arms were bent/broken.

 

[svt4cam]

Recently went through this with my 2000 xlt i had replaced both upper a arms and lower ball joints within past couple years and had it aligned it was still wearing the tires unevenly and had too much negative camber. Had a shop install the camber kits which were about 35.00 each. Whole service bill was around 320.00 with tax.

 

[joecrna]

The camber kit is not expensive, most decent shops will have it in stock or can get it that same day. This is often needed on Explorers. Lower ball joints are cheap and often bad at your age. Uppers, now that is a question. Unless you offroad it or are unlucky, they wear a good long time as does the rest of the upper control arm of which they are a nonservicable part. Although their price for all of that work is not bad, I think I would pass. Have the camber kit installed and the alignment finished.

Now jack it up with the front wheels off and attempt to determine if the ball joints, both upper and lower, are bad. This is difficult at best and is why I don't trust them. You grab the stearing knuckle. That big thing the wheel/brakes mount to and try to displace it in and out at the top and bottom. Many people do this with the tire on to gain more leverage but that makes it hard to tell if there is any deflection. Any movement and it is bad. This should actually be done with the frame on jack stands and the lower control arm jacked up half way to partially load it. Even than movement is hard to quantify. Again a reason I doubt their diagnosis.

If you do this and believe the balljoints may be bad. Replace them yourself using them sticky threads on this site. The lower balljoints with shipping/handling/tax are about $50. Upper control arms (careful to get the correct ones) maybe $300 or so. If you don't want to do it your self, like I said, their price wasn't bad but i don't trust them.

 

[Gargoyle64]

Toe plates?

Have a 1996 Explorer XLT, stock, took it in for an alignment, they said that they could only get the toe to .10, and factory recommends .30.

Is there something akin to a caster/camber plate that helps with this? This is the second alignment I've had done and both times they told me the same thing.

In the mean time, I'm still searching old posts.

Thanks

Jes

 

[yavapaires]

The caster/camber adjustment will have an effect on toe in/out. But you can still adjust the toe without messing with the caster/camber. You have adjustable tie rod ends, these set the toe. You can also center your steering wheel this way. I did this about four months ago on my 96. Just get someone to help you. Have them hold the dumb end of the tape, measure front and back of the tire equal distance from the ground. Try to measure as close to the center of the tire for best results. If you don't have a tread design that has a groove in the center, you can measure to the edge of the tread. Just be sure to measure to the same place on the front and rear of the tire. There is a post on here a week or so age where he used two levels wired to the front wheels, if you can do that, that would be better.But if a shop tells you they cannot set the toe any closer than that, I'd be looking for a new shop. I try for 1/8th inch toe in myself. You may have to trial and error.

 

[Gargoyle64]

I actually did this the first time. And, it seemed to work relatively well, but, still had a bit of pull to it. Not much, but, noticeable. That's when I took it in. Then, after a while, the pull got more substantial, and, I took it in again. That's when they told me that they could only get the toe to .10, and not the .30.

They said unless I can find a way to get that adjusted, or some aftermarket part that helps, it's the best that they can do.

For the record, if it helps, the first was done at Tires Plus, the other at Tire Kingdom.

Not bashing either business, just getting it out there so that if anyone in the business knows of something else to tell them to try, I have a base point to go from.

Thanks.

 

[yavapaires]

Toe in probably not the cause. Camber most likely the cause. Also check for a tire separation,uneven air pressure. If your Ex is anything like mine. the wind plays havoc with it.

 

[Hartman]

Honestly a quote of $800 for all that is pretty reasonable. Not that I would pay it, but it's reasonable.

And Explorers have weird alignment issues. Camber adjusters are cheap and easy to install. The camber is not adjustable from the factory, the shop is not lying to you about that.

 

[dabrown]

How can I do toe in/out

 

[yavapaires]

How can I do toe in/out

Adjust the outer tie rod ends. Look at my post on 10-03-2011

 

[dabrown]

Found the torsion adj. bolt missing from the drivers side. Now with the adj. bolts inplace and adjusted the is truck level and drives great. Thanks for the help.

 

[RomeovilleIL]

Found the torsion adj. bolt missing from the drivers side. Now with the adj. bolts inplace and adjusted the is truck level and drives great. Thanks for the help.

Yup - stock aligned, go figure. No warm and fuzzy feelings about the mechanics at shops who miss that!

Edit - realized not same problem as guys above, sentiment still stands though

 

[Gargoyle64]

Toe in probably not the cause. Camber most likely the cause. Also check for a tire separation,uneven air pressure. If your Ex is anything like mine. the wind plays havoc with it.

Doubt that would be the case, the tires were put on (new) right before the alignment was done.

Took it back to the shop, and they can still only get it to .10. :fire: