Engine sounds like a diesel, tech says it's the timing chain. What other parts should I upgrade?

[MyExplorer03v8Lim]

Looks like I'll be learning how to do a timing chain, or at least guides and tensioners on my 4.6.

My truck has sounded like a diesel pretty much since forever. I really had no idea what it was, but I'm sick of listening to it. It's getting worse. It really sounds more like a metal scraping noise now. It just makes this nasty scraping noise until I hit about 50mph.

I believe that it'd be the chain. It makes sense. But I will run it by an exhaust shop before I start wrenching on it. I am pretty tone-deaf when it comes to engine and vehicle noises.

So when I tear everything off of the front and top of my engine, what other upgrades should I think about doing? New pullies? Cams? Hoses, radiator, vacuum lines? Intake? Throttle? PCV, EGR? Heads? Full overhaul...?!

This will be just about as far as I have ever torn down my engine, and I don't mind going a little further if it's worth it.

The shop told me it's about $1,800 to do the timing chain, which sounds about right to me. I know it's a lot of work. He said I'd be better off just dropping a new used engine in there. But it's already running a replacement engine that was put in August of 2016. I'd rather repair it than replace it.

I am thinking that if I am looking at close to $2000 in parts/ labor, I might as well save the labor by doing it myself, and use some of my savings on upgraded parts/ accessories.

What do you guys think about the job? What other parts should I think about replacing while I've got her skirt up?

 

[Number4]

Do the chains, drop a 5.4 in later if you want mods.

Stop driving until chains are done, or you will need an engine.

Chains on the 4.6 are easy, plenty of info here about it. $1,800 if you are smoking something funny.

 

[MyExplorer03v8Lim]

Do the chains, drop a 5.4 in later if you want mods.

Stop driving until chains are done, or you will need an engine.

Chains on the 4.6 are easy, plenty of info here about it. $1,800 if you are smoking something funny.

I like your honest statement about the 5.4. Maybe I'll put that on my list.

So okay, if I'm doing the job myself, couple of questions:

1. Should I do the chains and sprockets even if they don't look worn? I know it adds a little bit to the job, by forcing me to be careful not to move the cams or crank.

2. Preferred manufacturer? Is there a better kit to get? They range $120-500 depending on the parts.

3. Worth upgrading water and oil pumps while I'm at it?

 

[Number4]

Depends on the damage you find.

I've done chains on a 150k and 200k engine. I reused the chains and gears on both.

Neither of mine had the chains eat through the guides and or into the tensioners.
On the second engine, I popped the followers off so the cam didn't try to rotate.
I bought the crank and cam holding tools, cam tool wasn't needed with the followers out. Though I did make multiple marks with a sharpie to make sure I could align the cams as they should. The crank tool was used to align it and hold it. Not that it would move, but peace of mind.

Cloyes tends to be the prevailing kit for the 4.6l. The guides will/should be stamped FOMOCO in the kit.

Water pump is cheap, and you are there. Good time to do it. Oil pump depends on wether you have 2 or 4 wheel drive. As well as component damage.
If it's 2wd it's easy to do, not so if it's 4wd. If it's 4wd and your chains ate through the guides, many will say the oil pump is a must.

 

[IPcamper]

If you are doing it yourself, you might as well replace everything. The Cloyes kit at Rockauto is <$200. You should replace the timing cover seal ( oil seal for the harmonic balance pulley ) as well. If the engine has a lot of miles, you might want to replace the gaskets on the timing cover and the valve covers, but if you are careful, they are reusable.

The timing on the 4.6 is not hard. Rotate the crank so the key is on top and the timing mark is around 6 to 7 o'clock position. The timing marks on the cam sprockets should be near the top. The cam sprockets and the crank sprocket have clear timing marks on them. The Cloyes, and Ford chains have two black links, just make sure to line the black links up with the timing marks and you are good. The right bank will want to rotate back on you when you remove the chain. Use a wrench to let it rotate back slowly, then use the wrench to rotate it forward to line the black link on the new chain up with the timing mark on the sprocket. The left bank won't move.

 

[MyExplorer03v8Lim]

If you are doing it yourself, you might as well replace everything. The Cloyes kit at Rockauto is <$200. You should replace the timing cover seal ( oil seal for the harmonic balance pulley ) as well. If the engine has a lot of miles, you might want to replace the gaskets on the timing cover and the valve covers, but if you are careful, they are reusable.

The timing on the 4.6 is not hard. Rotate the crank so the key is on top and the timing mark is around 6 to 7 o'clock position. The timing marks on the cam sprockets should be near the top. The cam sprockets and the crank sprocket have clear timing marks on them. The Cloyes, and Ford chains have two black links, just make sure to line the black links up with the timing marks and you are good. The right bank will want to rotate back on you when you remove the chain. Use a wrench to let it rotate back slowly, then use the wrench to rotate it forward to line the black link on the new chain up with the timing mark on the sprocket. The left bank won't move.

Thanks for the info!! Awesome post.

Does this shopping list make sense to you:
- Cloyes Timing Set 90387SJ
- Fel-Pro valve cover gasket VS50564R
- Mahle timing cover seal 48322
- Fel-Pro timing cover gasket set TCS46064
- Motorcraft belt JK61013AD
- Motorcraft belt tensioner BT61
- Motorcraft idler pulley EV258

My thoughts with the belt, tensioner, and pulley is that they're coming off anyway, why not put new ones on. I've had them go bad on another explorer in the past. Everything has a lifespan.

But do you think the rest of my shopping list looks good? Anything missing? Anything overkill?

 

[IPcamper]

I just finished doing this on my 2002 mountaineer 4.6l V8. The Fel-pro timing cover gasket set may have the timing cover seal in it, otherwise this should do it for you.

 

[Number4]

Keep the extra seal in case first one doesn't go in right.

I've always put new power steering pulleys on, mainly because my puller always damages the original, not allowing it to be pressed back on.

 

[MyExplorer03v8Lim]

Keep the extra seal in case first one doesn't go in right.

I've always put new power steering pulleys on, mainly because my puller always damages the original, not allowing it to be pressed back on.

Not bad advice.

Would you recommend the kit with or without the sprockets? At this point I don't know what/ if anything is broken in there, but it's my understanding that the sprockets rarely go bad.

 

[Number4]

If you buy new sprockets, you'll need new bolts also. I forget but they were either seven or 20 bucks each at the dealer.

 

[MyExplorer03v8Lim]

I just want to add some additional info. I am not sure if there's another issue at hand, or if it's part of the same timing chain issue.

I noticed today that the noise only exists when the transmission is in gear and the engine is accelerating. It makes the same scraping noise during accelleration until it upshifts, the the noise momentarily disappears until it gets into the next gear.

As I accellerate through the gears, I can clearly hear the noise go away for a second while it shifts. When I get to top gear, the noise goes away completely.

Other symptoms that make me think it's transmission related, the vehicle sometimes clunks into reverse (u joints?), and sometimes it clunks into first gear when downshifting from second. These may be totally unrelated symptoms, but I find it odd that the noise only exists while the truck is in gear, but disappears while upshifting.

Sounds a lot more like a transmission issue than a timing chain to me.

 

[Hugh Janus]

I just want to add some additional info. I am not sure if there's another issue at hand, or if it's part of the same timing chain issue.

I noticed today that the noise only exists when the transmission is in gear and the engine is accelerating. It makes the same scraping noise during accelleration until it upshifts, the the noise momentarily disappears until it gets into the next gear.

As I accellerate through the gears, I can clearly hear the noise go away for a second while it shifts. When I get to top gear, the noise goes away completely.

Other symptoms that make me think it's transmission related, the vehicle sometimes clunks into reverse (u joints?), and sometimes it clunks into first gear when downshifting from second. These may be totally unrelated symptoms, but I find it odd that the noise only exists while the truck is in gear, but disappears while upshifting.

Sounds a lot more like a transmission issue than a timing chain to me.

Didnt you have a tech check it? If you cant isolate this then maybe this job is over your head.

 

[Number4]

Just have a transmission shop inspect it. Just need to make sure you identify the issue before spending money.

 

[apenland01]

If it is a reman engine that was dropped in 2016, I doubt its the timing chains already unless you drove it 100k in the first year with the new engine, especially a 4.6L. It sounds like you have another issue and needs to be investigated further before dropping more cash into it blindly.

 

[apenland01]

Also, your replacement engine was dropped in August 2016, so only 9 months ago. Likely still under warranty. Can you chase down the details or receipts on the engine? You may not have to pay anything at all.

 

[MyExplorer03v8Lim]

Didnt you have a tech check it? If you cant isolate this then maybe this job is over your head.

Tech checked, but they've been giving me misinformation lately. They also left a brake caliper unbolted, so I am weary of their advice. But you are 100% correct that I am not equipped to diagnose noises. I'm tone deaf.

Just have a transmission shop inspect it. Just need to make sure you identify the issue before spending money.

I brought it in to a transmission shop today. They didn't hear a timing chain at all, but immediately identified the torque converter rattle. He said it runs and feels great, but if it were his, he'd switch out the torque converter. He also recommended replacing the bands while he had it open, and quoted $1,000, but said obviously we could go deeper into the rebuild if necessary.

I am inclined to have them do as much as possible to the transmission while it's out, just to put my mind at ease about it. There are a few known issues from the engine swap, and a few missing parts. So to have some professional hands on it would be a good thing.

If it is a reman engine that was dropped in 2016.

It was an LKQ engine, with 92k on it. I was told it had 70k, but I wasn't going to fight them over 22k on a used engine.

Also, your replacement engine was dropped in August 2016, so only 9 months ago. Likely still under warranty. Can you chase down the details or receipts on the engine? You may not have to pay anything at all.

I have all the paperwork, but the warranty on the engine was 6 months/ 6k, which has long since passed. As far as I know, there isn't any written guarantee on the workmanship.