410Custom's builds a 2007 Ranger V8 - custom truck build - Project "Ranger Premier"

[Josh P]

@410Fortune When did everything change from old style OBD PCM to the newer can bus system? Or is there a clearcut answer to that? 2006?
Or different years for different model Fords?

The switch is as early as 2003 on some models up to 07. Everything on the road was canbus by 08.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

@410Fortune When did everything change from old style OBD PCM to the newer can bus system? Or is there a clearcut answer to that? 2006?
Or different years for different model Fords?
@vroomzoomboom I would like to see Tim's notes as to what he did all along the way and then you could post your notes too. Then maybe an answer for Tim would emerge. I'm sure though that what both of y'all have done are somewhere in the existing posts. I'll check back in the evening and see how it is going.

my notes? well, thats pretty easy. followed the wire diagram for a 550-943 kit, with the exception of the iac. when i got confused on something, or couldnt figure it out, called jamie!

right now i am being helped from someone that was recommended to me. he also is having a head scratching moment with it, however he has made it run for about 10 seconds so far. not running great, but he has made it run. last night i moved the motor 195 out from tdc, then put the cam sync in straight up and will try to see if that works. might also have to flip the fire out out 180 in the pcm but will have to see first.

 

[CDW6212R]

FYI about the cam synchronizer installation; the shop manuals for the 96-98 302's describe a different method to install the cam synch. The common method has been to use the alignment tool with the crank at TDC, and done. The old shop manual calls for the crank to be set at 20* ATDC, and manually locate the synchronizer flag opening with it just past the front sensor opening in the housing. This isn't the quoted wording, just my recalling it from a thread this past week on the Corral forum. Someone there was trying to figure out how to install a cam synchronizer on their Fox Mustang 302. It's an older thread and I didn't reread it from the start again. But the shop manual method may be needed to work with an aftermarket PCM system etc. I'd try that before start up and see if that helps it to fire.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

FYI about the cam synchronizer installation; the shop manuals for the 96-98 302's describe a different method to install the cam synch. The common method has been to use the alignment tool with the crank at TDC, and done. The old shop manual calls for the crank to be set at 20* ATDC, and manually locate the synchronizer flag opening with it just past the front sensor opening in the housing. This isn't the quoted wording, just my recalling it from a thread this past week on the Corral forum. Someone there was trying to figure out how to install a cam synchronizer on their Fox Mustang 302. It's an older thread and I didn't reread it from the start again. But the shop manual method may be needed to work with an aftermarket PCM system etc. I'd try that before start up and see if that helps it to fire.

take everything you know about a cam sync and sensor and throw it out the window with holley.

 

[CDW6212R]

Yeah, I've been watching for any other examples of EFI systems running the OEM crank and cam sensors. I much prefer the stock parts because they work and are cheap and reliable. The aftermarket choices are all expensive and require modifications to install; so far I see no gain with those.

 

[410Fortune]

I am in Holley setup land, been reading for two days about setting up the PCM
I have fuel pump, I have 65 psi and it holds 55 psi for like 12 hours after shut down!
I have starter......at first we had no spark.

then I went to school, online Holley setup school. Talking to Brett asked a few quick questions and got some answers.
I learned that first I needed to update the firmware in my Holley, our kit is from 2019 there have been about 20 updates to the operating system since then. Easy enough, I brought the SD card inside, loaded up the latest firmware from Holley website and tried setup again
BLAMO! Now we are talking, so many more choices for setup!!
Now I have spark, but its not right, backfire through the intake
So back to school I went.........now looking at Mustang and Early Bronco dudes and how they setup the stock cam and crank sensors.......
I am now waiting on a $62 Holley cable that will allow me to tune the Holley software with tablet/laptop/pc

I am EXTREMELY happy with the progress, all systems on the truck side of things appear to work thus far.
Details to come and HOPEFULLY a video if her running.
While I wait for the cable to come in the mail and learn more about the base tune we need for this setup I am working on other things like airbox and muffler install, shifter and shift cable, etc........

Hang in there (especially you Tim I will be more help to you after I learn all this stuff I am sure you have already schooled yourself on) and yes I may need to put the cam sensor 185 degrees out for the Holley........ we shall see!!

 

[vroomzoomboom]

had to buy that cable as well. makes things WAY easier to do, and you are also able to do more with it as well. doing things with the lap top is so much easier then the 3 inch screen.
i am suppose to go out and disable the cam sync and see if it runs. not holding my breath either. my whole experience with this has left a sour taste in my mouth i will say for sure.

also, do you know if the crank sensor is on the 6th or 7th. that is a problem i have. i cant see it to say for sure so i have to keep flipping it in the software.

as for tuning the motor 185 out, this is what i did.

printed a degree wheel and taped it to the balancer. i got lucky because the one i have has a mark at 180

 

[Rick]

I am in Holley setup land, been reading for two days about setting up the PCM
I have fuel pump, I have 65 psi and it holds 55 psi for like 12 hours after shut down!
I have starter......at first we had no spark.

then I went to school, online Holley setup school. Talking to Brett asked a few quick questions and got some answers.
I learned that first I needed to update the firmware in my Holley, our kit is from 2019 there have been about 20 updates to the operating system since then. Easy enough, I brought the SD card inside, loaded up the latest firmware from Holley website and tried setup again
BLAMO! Now we are talking, so many more choices for setup!!
Now I have spark, but its not right, backfire through the intake
So back to school I went.........now looking at Mustang and Early Bronco dudes and how they setup the stock cam and crank sensors.......
I am now waiting on a $62 Holley cable that will allow me to tune the Holley software with tablet/laptop/pc

I am EXTREMELY happy with the progress, all systems on the truck side of things appear to work thus far.
Details to come and HOPEFULLY a video if her running.
While I wait for the cable to come in the mail and learn more about the base tune we need for this setup I am working on other things like airbox and muffler install, shifter and shift cable, etc........

Hang in there (especially you Tim I will be more help to you after I learn all this stuff I am sure you have already schooled yourself on) and yes I may need to put the cam sensor 185 degrees out for the Holley........ we shall see!!

I may have Holley EFI in my future. I keep thinking about doing individual stack fuel injection on the big block Dart. I've been impatiently waiting for Holley to bring back the Hilborn EFI setup for the BBM. Hilborn is one of the many companies that was bought by Holley. Holley cancelled a lot of their products when they took over

 

[410Fortune]

printed a degree wheel and taped it to the balancer. i got lucky because the one i have has a mare at 180

the camshaft rotates 1 times vs the crank rotates 2 times.
the piston will reach TRD twice, both times the crank mark is at the pointer
once on compression stroke and the second is on the exhaust stroke = 180 degrees out.

This means that the crank mark for 0 DTC will be at the pointer both times
even with the camshaft 180 degrees out
The crankshaft damper uses the same mark for tdc compression and tdc exhaust
The stock damper also has marks for 10 degrees ATDC all the way to 10 degrees BTDC



So I am confused that you say your balancer has a mark at 180 out, because that would actually set you at like 90 degrees out

Or am I missing something?

 

[vroomzoomboom]

the camshaft rotates 1 times vs the crank rotates 2 times.
the piston will reach TRD twice, both times the crank mark is at the pointer
once on compression stroke and the second is on the exhaust stroke = 180 degrees out.

This means that the crank mark for 0 DTC will be at the pointer both times
even with the camshaft 180 degrees out
The crankshaft damper uses the same mark for tdc compression and tdc exhaust
The stock damper also has marks for 10 degrees ATDC all the way to 10 degrees BTDC



So I am confused that you say your balancer has a mark at 180 out, because that would actually set you at like 90 degrees out

Or am I missing something?

its hard to explain. it is not exactly marked 180, but it is 180 degrease past 0. its more like a line cast into the weight if you like. its also not a stock balancer as well. if i am not wrong it is from a 3.8L that has been milled down for a pulley to fit on it from a 94/95 mustang. if i have time i will try and get a picture of what i am talking about.

 

[410Fortune]

Okay BUT in order to set the camshaft sensor 180 (or 185-190) "out"
it really means we are going to set the cam sensor with cylinder one at TDC on EXHAUST stroke
The 0 mark on your balancer is used, not a mark on the opposite side
so the wheel you printed would not work!

I drew a simple diagram to help us visualize. (Please ignore the spelling errors LOL It was at 5 am this morning and at that hour I am a little bit dyslexic, O TDC!!)

Basically right now the cam synchro is set on the cam tooth based on the crank being at TDC compression
I need to reset the cam sensor to be on the cam tooth when the crank is at TDC exhaust stroke. The synchronizer will be pulled off the cam tooth and reset in the o DTC exhaust position.
This is 180 degrees of rotation on the cam tooth

For me to set the cam synchro at 185 degrees I can simply go to TDC (0) and then move it ATDC to the 5 degree mark, now drop the synchronizer in.
I really hope this helps!!

I will be lowering the truck this morning and resetting my cam sycnhro to 185 degrees out
I installed the two spin tech mufflers and exhaust to them
I fully expect the truck to run today
Fingers crossed

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Okay BUT in order to set the camshaft sensor 180 (or 185-190) "out"
it really means we are going to set the cam sensor with cylinder one at TDC on EXHAUST stroke
The 0 mark on your balancer is used, not a mark on the opposite side
so the wheel you printed would not work!

View attachment 434619

I drew a simple diagram to help us visualize. (Please ignore the spelling errors LOL It was at 5 am this morning and at that hour I am a little bit dyslexic, O TDC!!)

Basically right now the cam synchro is set on the cam tooth based on the crank being at TDC compression
I need to reset the cam sensor to be on the cam tooth when the crank is at TDC exhaust stroke. The synchronizer will be pulled off the cam tooth and reset in the o DTC exhaust position.
This is 180 degrees of rotation on the cam tooth

For me to set the cam synchro at 185 degrees I can simply go to TDC (0) and then move it ATDC to the 2.5 degree mark, now drop the synchronizer in.
I really hope this helps!!

ya know. when your right, your right. i hate brain farts.....

 

[410Fortune]

dude i've spent the last two days making sure I have it right and don't over think it!! brain twister
the crank has the small gear on it cam large gear

 

[Josh P]

Reminds me of this picture

 

[410Fortune]

Not running yet, but I think we have it sorted out as to why
Hang in there...... I've barely slept (obsessed OCD)
I am now fluent in Holley terminator software, handheld, global files and Explorer 302 terminator setup using stock explorer electrics, coil packs and stock cam crank sensors.....
We have some new information and I need to move a couple of wires around
truck is cranking and trying to fire, we tried many many things yesterday (testing and tuning) and now I think we know what the issue is......

 

[vroomzoomboom]

Sounds like what mine was doing. Hopefully what you and Brett found and figured out will also solve my issues as well.
Hope that doesn’t sound selfish….

 

[410Fortune]

that is not selfish LOL the goal here is to get these things running!! HAHAHAHA
New information coming in about how to properly time the cam synchronizer for the terminator X

Moving the wire I was speaking of yesterday was simply re routing the power for the cam synchronizer to pin B20 on the Holley. They want the power for the cam and crank hall effect sensors to come from this pin on the PCM, this is considered "clean power"
So I took the power feed away from the PJB and gave it directly to this pin
No change

So far we have tried:
putting cam synch 185 out
moving dedicated power wire for cam/crank
checked air/fuel spark
checked my power feeds
Checked for power at iac, injectors, etc power dist from holley
Checked PCM pinout to sensors making sure all is correct and connected
about 10 different setups on the software side, most of this is just me learning the proper setup for this engine/ignition/sensors with the holley

BUT GOOD NEWS!

It looks like I stabbed it at 10 degrees after top dead center on the exhaust stroke and that maybe too far
it should be closer to 10 degrees BTDC on exhaust
going to try again today

Holley is very specific about when the cam sensor must occur

Right now everything is green, crank the engine over, it attempts to fire but does not. The cam and crank sensor lights go blue green blue green just like they are supposed to, except the crank sensor led goes red after a few rotations. This is telling us there is an issue with the crank sensor.
The stock crank sensor is a VR magnetic type which as everyone knows requires shielding. These two wire sensors can be "noisy" and difficult to setup (software) with the Holley, so a "hall effect" type sensor is preferred (3 wire)
I have ordered one from Lowdollar motorsports for $79
This will help the Holley run our SBF smoothly and consistantly

However with the new info/ help I am getting on the classicbroncos forum I think we have found the issue, cam synchro is still out!!

So new hope...... It can be like going to war, each day you have a new plan and then somewtimes no gains......rollercoaster.
But this is what drives us!! This is the CHALLENGE!! So far all of my conversions are still on the road, I fully expect this sucker to work

This is my first Holley but I doubt it will be the last.




Here is the thread on the early bronco forum, while researching our setup I found some dudes who already have these running around AND posting their info and findings........

Windsor 5.0 Explorer Motor Wiring with Waste-Spark Coils

I started with a mustang 5.0 config then changed the ignition settings to custom with attached settings. At that point I believe if fired up and I noticed the sensor (oil, water temp & fuel pressure ) didn't seem accurate, don't overheat your engine! I spent copious time with multimeters and...

classicbroncos.com

I love going to school and learning each day, as we get older we need less and less sleep anyways!!

 

[CDW6212R]

That's great stuff Jamie, well done to dig in and research the issues. I'm glad to hear the crank sensor system can work, but for a three wire

"hall effect" type sensor

to be preferred, I'll go that route also.

The cam sensor was my biggest concern, I hate the vague error inherent methods of setting that sensor. But evidently a few degrees off from perfect is workable, it just means that a tuned for 28* total timing is perfect for one engine, another identical one may like 25* better. That's error in the sensor set up, not a difference in two identical(absolutely identical) engines.

I would prefer that the installation procedure use a proper degree wheel. Set the cam synchronizer like commonly done for a stock Explorer(synchronizer bolted down pointed straight forward, with the proper tool on it). First it comes down to simply finding TDC, and turning the crank to a specific position on the wheel, and installing the cam synchronizer. The rub is what is that location of the crank, the balancer.

The two balancers I had made started with a brand new 28oz SBF unit, common for most SBF Fords before the roller 302. I still expect to find an aftermarket version which will allow the trigger wheel to install on the inner circumference.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

that is not selfish LOL the goal here is to get these things running!! HAHAHAHA
New information coming in about how to properly time the cam synchronizer for the terminator X

Moving the wire I was speaking of yesterday was simply re routing the power for the cam synchronizer to pin B20 on the Holley. They want the power for the cam and crank hall effect sensors to come from this pin on the PCM, this is considered "clean power"
So I took the power feed away from the PJB and gave it directly to this pin
No change

So far we have tried:
putting cam synch 185 out
moving dedicated power wire for cam/crank
checked air/fuel spark
checked my power feeds
Checked for power at iac, injectors, etc power dist from holley
Checked PCM pinout to sensors making sure all is correct and connected
about 10 different setups on the software side, most of this is just me learning the proper setup for this engine/ignition/sensors with the holley

BUT GOOD NEWS!

It looks like I stabbed it at 10 degrees after top dead center on the exhaust stroke and that maybe too far
it should be closer to 10 degrees BTDC on exhaust
going to try again today

Holley is very specific about when the cam sensor must occur

Right now everything is green, crank the engine over, it attempts to fire but does not. The cam and crank sensor lights go blue green blue green just like they are supposed to, except the crank sensor led goes red after a few rotations. This is telling us there is an issue with the crank sensor.
The stock crank sensor is a VR magnetic type which as everyone knows requires shielding. These two wire sensors can be "noisy" and difficult to setup (software) with the Holley, so a "hall effect" type sensor is preferred (3 wire)
I have ordered one from Lowdollar motorsports for $79
This will help the Holley run our SBF smoothly and consistantly

However with the new info/ help I am getting on the classicbroncos forum I think we have found the issue, cam synchro is still out!!

So new hope...... It can be like going to war, each day you have a new plan and then somewtimes no gains......rollercoaster.
But this is what drives us!! This is the CHALLENGE!! So far all of my conversions are still on the road, I fully expect this sucker to work

This is my first Holley but I doubt it will be the last.




Here is the thread on the early bronco forum, while researching our setup I found some dudes who already have these running around AND posting their info and findings........

Windsor 5.0 Explorer Motor Wiring with Waste-Spark Coils

I started with a mustang 5.0 config then changed the ignition settings to custom with attached settings. At that point I believe if fired up and I noticed the sensor (oil, water temp & fuel pressure ) didn't seem accurate, don't overheat your engine! I spent copious time with multimeters and...

classicbroncos.com

I love going to school and learning each day, as we get older we need less and less sleep anyways!!

pretty much word for word describes what mine was/is doing.

going back to the IAC, on mine i had to remove 3 wires because it was set up for a gm iac, and use b3 and b20 (foxbody wire pin out)

the cam and crank sensors on mine have their own harness for them (as the 02 sensor). they made damn sure they didnt go to anything else, and had there own rubber shielding on them.

the crank trigger from low dollar looks like the one i had from motion raceworks, and replaced with a holley crank sensor (554-124). in the end after trying 3 different sensors, i discovered i had my power and signal wires going into the cam sensor flipped around (doesnt help when the plug pigtail has three black wires, and none of them tell you which wire is what). i will recommend lowdollar for any sensor because i wasnt sure if i had 2 bad sensors. when i called them to ask how to test them, long story short, they sent 2 new ones out free of charge, including shipping, and had to have air freighted them, because they were here the next day (i live in canada btw for those who dont know). and same, my crank and cam led's flash blue and green when its cranking.

as for the roller coaster, believe it or not, been there, done that. i have reached the point where its just going threw the motions as blah as it sounds.

 

[vroomzoomboom]

oh! i have also checked to see if the iac was moved in the software. it has been.
going back to my dark dreary mood, it would be really wild if for some miracle mine spit to life before next weekend. if anyone had ever watched hotrods drag week, the guy who has won it overall twice (he also won it last time) is based 20 mins from where i live. not only that, he has made it a tradition to bring their "street car" out on cruise night the week after drag week, and go for a cruise on public streets with it. google schroeder ens