Surging/jerking while accelerating???

[Town]

It is too bad you cannot get the DTC code from the mechanic. I cannot see a Ford specific DTC posted for that problem.

 

[Ford Explorer9]

Called my mechanic and he gave me the code, P2006 and P2007

 

[willied]

Make sure there isn't any moisture around the plugs. I had some I think on cylinder #8 and it seemed to cause similar problems. Probably not it, but it's easy to check and fix.

 

[Ford Explorer9]

Make sure there isn't any moisture around the plugs. I had some I think on cylinder #8 and it seemed to cause similar problems. Probably not it, but it's easy to check and fix.

Was there moisture while it was running or all the time? I just checked and it looks to be bone dry but I haven't driven it in a few hours. There was a lot of dirt and leaves though, think I might vacuum that out just in case haha.

 

[Town]

Called my mechanic and he gave me the code, P2006 and P2007

That is very helpful. It appears the charge motion control valve is just a renamed "Intake Manifold Runner Control". So the way that system works is to use two runners for each bank, a long one for the low speed operation and a shorter one for high speed operation. The long runner is open while the short runner is closed by a valve at idle and low engine speeds. At higher engine speeds the valves covering the short runners are opened by an electric motor. If the valves do not open on command then the MIL is commanded on and DTC(s) are set. The MIL may only be lit when the command to open the valves is actioned and fails, I don't know yet.

Here are Fords explanations for the codes:

P2006 - Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) Stuck Closed (Bank 1)
Description: This DTC is set when the IMRC is commanded open, but the IMRC monitor indicates closed. This DTC replaces P1512 and P1519
Possible Causes:
IMRC monitor circuit open
IMRC control circuit open
IMRC monitor circuit short to VREF
Damaged IMRC actuator or solenoid

P2007 - Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) Stuck Closed (Bank 2)
Description: This DTC is set when the IMRC is commanded open, but the IMRC monitor indicates closed. This DTC replaces P1513
Possible Causes:
IMRC monitor circuit open
IMRC control circuit open
IMRC monitor circuit short to VREF
Damaged IMRC actuator or solenoid

The Ford possible causes relate to electrical problems or problems in the runner control components. Some people have proposed that the runner control problems are caused by:
1. carbon deposits fouling and sticking the valves and linkage;
2. actuating motor failure;
3. actuating rods disconnected from motor (possibly due to breakage of a part).

Since the vehicle is somtimes (I think) able to get good power, the carbon fouling sounds plausible as an intermittant failure. Most solutions point toward removal of the intake and the runner control system and cleaning it. There may be other solutions that are less drastic and expensive.

Good luck.

 

[willied]

Was there moisture while it was running or all the time? I just checked and it looks to be bone dry but I haven't driven it in a few hours. There was a lot of dirt and leaves though, think I might vacuum that out just in case haha.

It was moisture from heavy rain, but Tower seems to know what the deal is.

 

[Ford Explorer9]

There may be other solutions that are less drastic and expensive.

Good luck.

Uh oh, any idea as to how much a mechanic may charge to remove and clean the parts?

 

[Ford Explorer9]

That is very helpful. It appears the charge motion control valve is just a renamed "Intake Manifold Runner Control". So the way that system works is to use two runners for each bank, a long one for the low speed operation and a shorter one for high speed operation. The long runner is open while the short runner is closed by a valve at idle and low engine speeds. At higher engine speeds the valves covering the short runners are opened by an electric motor. If the valves do not open on command then the MIL is commanded on and DTC(s) are set. The MIL may only be lit when the command to open the valves is actioned and fails, I don't know yet.

Here are Fords explanations for the codes:

P2006 - Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) Stuck Closed (Bank 1)
Description: This DTC is set when the IMRC is commanded open, but the IMRC monitor indicates closed. This DTC replaces P1512 and P1519
Possible Causes:
IMRC monitor circuit open
IMRC control circuit open
IMRC monitor circuit short to VREF
Damaged IMRC actuator or solenoid

P2007 - Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) Stuck Closed (Bank 2)
Description: This DTC is set when the IMRC is commanded open, but the IMRC monitor indicates closed. This DTC replaces P1513
Possible Causes:
IMRC monitor circuit open
IMRC control circuit open
IMRC monitor circuit short to VREF
Damaged IMRC actuator or solenoid

The Ford possible causes relate to electrical problems or problems in the runner control components. Some people have proposed that the runner control problems are caused by:
1. carbon deposits fouling and sticking the valves and linkage;
2. actuating motor failure;
3. actuating rods disconnected from motor (possibly due to breakage of a part).

Since the vehicle is somtimes (I think) able to get good power, the carbon fouling sounds plausible as an intermittant failure. Most solutions point toward removal of the intake and the runner control system and cleaning it. There may be other solutions that are less drastic and expensive.

Good luck.

Would eliminating the Charge motion control valve using a kit fix this problem as mentioned before? Or is this a different type of problem?

From what I read on the 4.6 mustang forums it is a rather easy DIY solution. However due to my very limited knowledge, I have no idea if this would fix my problem.

 

[Town]

Would eliminating the Charge motion control valve using a kit fix this problem as mentioned before? Or is this a different type of problem?

From what I read on the 4.6 mustang forums it is a rather easy DIY solution. However due to my very limited knowledge, I have no idea if this would fix my problem.

I don't know how much a mechanic would charge to remove and clean the parts. Perhaps a call to your mechanic would give you an idea. He seems to know what is going on even if he doesn't always communicate his knowledge.

I figure some owners of other affected vehicles may have tried cleaning solutions in the gas or sprayed into the throttle body or injected into a vacuum line at higher engine speed. It is based along the lines that gas contains cleaners that should keep all parts clean, but not all gas contains them. If your gas doesn't have the cleaners then you will have an ongoing problem. Those seem to be possible alternatives to parts removal, assuming the motor and linkage are not broken and the electrcal circuits/connectors are good. Since you are also getting detonation issues, you may have a general buildup of carbon inside your engine.

The charge motion control valve delete option requires the PCM to be reprogrammed. This does not sound like a good idea if you are not into performance tuning. So there will be a cost to remove the existing parts and a cost to re-program the PCM and a cost to deliver the new program into the PCM. Then you have to hope that the PCM never needs to be updated by Ford. You are going to have massive intake runner openings for good high speed operation that will cause relatively poor idle and low speed operation.

I think the Taurus guys and the van guys would have more down to earth solutions. That is where I will look.

 

[Ford Explorer9]

I don't know how much a mechanic would charge to remove and clean the parts. Perhaps a call to your mechanic would give you an idea. He seems to know what is going on even if he doesn't always communicate his knowledge.

I figure some owners of other affected vehicles may have tried cleaning solutions in the gas or sprayed into the throttle body or injected into a vacuum line at higher engine speed. It is based along the lines that gas contains cleaners that should keep all parts clean, but not all gas contains them. If your gas doesn't have the cleaners then you will have an ongoing problem. Those seem to be possible alternatives to parts removal, assuming the motor and linkage are not broken and the electrcal circuits/connectors are good. Since you are also getting detonation issues, you may have a general buildup of carbon inside your engine.

The charge motion control valve delete option requires the PCM to be reprogrammed. This does not sound like a good idea if you are not into performance tuning. So there will be a cost to remove the existing parts and a cost to re-program the PCM and a cost to deliver the new program into the PCM. Then you have to hope that the PCM never needs to be updated by Ford. You are going to have massive intake runner openings for good high speed operation that will cause relatively poor idle and low speed operation.

I think the Taurus guys and the van guys would have more down to earth solutions. That is where I will look.

Man this thing is driving me nuts. Took it to the mechanic today and the same two codes popped up (P2006 and P2007). So I am taking it in on Monday to have the Charge Motion Control Valve fixed.

I have a feeling this truck may have multiple problems or something though. Today the acceleration was generally fine, not crazy fast like it used to but it didn't twitch. EXCEPT when I was in the 1700-2000 RPM range, I would be going 70 mph at 1700 rpm and gently try to accelerate (20% throttle) and it would twitch real bad. It seemingly disappeared after 2k rpm or at least not nearly as noticeable. The more load on the engine the worse the twitching was. Anyways since the only codes are for the CMCV my mechanic wants to just focus on that and see if it fixes it. I have a feeling though it is plugs and the valve.

I want to add that when I took it out of overdrive going 70mph and accelerated it didn't twitch, which is in line with the previous posting about spark plugs. I wish I could just drop a new engine in this thing and transmission and call it a day

 

[Town]

Man this thing is driving me nuts. Took it to the mechanic today and the same two codes popped up (P2006 and P2007). So I am taking it in on Monday to have the Charge Motion Control Valve fixed.

... I have a feeling though it is plugs and the valve.

.........

Yes, taking it in and getting it fixed sounds like the best option. Chemical cleaning with a running engine seems a waste of time and money for this feature according to the few websites I sampled. Most problems related to mechanical actuation, but even so the "valves" were very carboned up and needed cleaning.

My sons Explorer had 96,000 miles and the plugs were due to be changed. The plugs are very easy to access with the 9/16" hex plug socket. The plugs turned through initial 1/4 turn easily, so my son suggested we not use the carb cleaner and just continue to remove them. Although reluctant, I turned them in and out a few times and since there was no resistance i just unscrewed then easily, just like a normal plug. All came out perfectly. The carbon was light and fluffy and not hard at all. We installed the Champion one piece. I also changed the fuel filter, and it started up and ran perfectly. You may have the same good luck.

 

[Ford Explorer9]

Yes, taking it in and getting it fixed sounds like the best option. Chemical cleaning with a running engine seems a waste of time and money for this feature according to the few websites I sampled. Most problems related to mechanical actuation, but even so the "valves" were very carboned up and needed cleaning.

My sons Explorer had 96,000 miles and the plugs were due to be changed. The plugs are very easy to access with the 9/16" hex plug socket. The plugs turned through initial 1/4 turn easily, so my son suggested we not use the carb cleaner and just continue to remove them. Although reluctant, I turned them in and out a few times and since there was no resistance i just unscrewed then easily, just like a normal plug. All came out perfectly. The carbon was light and fluffy and not hard at all. We installed the Champion one piece. I also changed the fuel filter, and it started up and ran perfectly. You may have the same good luck.

Just out of curiosity, could bad spark plugs or ignition coils possibly cause pinging?

 

[Town]

Just out of curiosity, could bad spark plugs or ignition coils possibly cause pinging?

Bad spark plugs could cause pinging due to their overheating causing an ignition source. I have never heard of a coil problem causing pinging; the COP is fired directly by the PCM so I cannot see how it would fire the plug early.

 

[Ford Explorer9]

Bad spark plugs could cause pinging due to their overheating causing an ignition source. I have never heard of a coil problem causing pinging; the COP is fired directly by the PCM so I cannot see how it would fire the plug early.

Okay perfect. The more I drive it the more closely it resembles the complaints people have when spark plugs go bad. The only thing that didn't match was the pinging.

However even if the CMCV only stops working every once in a while I want that fixed too. Because every once in a while will be constantly soon enough.

 

[Ford Explorer9]

Soooooo the mechanic did a diagnose on the truck today and let me know the not so wonderful results.

He said there was definitely a misfire in the 1750-2000 RPM range and also he said that he can here the CMCV valve clicking but it seems like it's not doing anything.

So his diagnose is that I need to replace all of my spark plugs and then he wants to replace the motor on the CMCV. He believes that there are plastic gears that have stripped.

 

[Town]

Soooooo the mechanic did a diagnose on the truck today and let me know the not so wonderful results.

He said there was definitely a misfire in the 1750-2000 RPM range and also he said that he can here the CMCV valve clicking but it seems like it's not doing anything.

So his diagnose is that I need to replace all of my spark plugs and then he wants to replace the motor on the CMCV. He believes that there are plastic gears that have stripped.

I hope your spark plug change goes as well for you as for me. I have a number of documents on how to do the change and deal with the possible issues if you are interested. Or perhaps you will get your mechanic to do it.

Did you get estimates for both jobs?

Good luck.

 

[Ford Explorer9]

I hope your spark plug change goes as well for you as for me. I have a number of documents on how to do the change and deal with the possible issues if you are interested. Or perhaps you will get your mechanic to do it.

Did you get estimates for both jobs?

Good luck.

I'm just going to have my mechanic do the spark plug change because I am notorious for snapping bolts

The estimate for the spark plug change is currently $300 but I wouldn't be surprised to hear it ending up to be around $500 or more all said and done.

The CMCV is $525. The motor he is replacing is around $240 or something like that and the rest is labor and minor parts.

 

[Town]

Sounds like a good strategy and prices for the jobs. You must have a good mechanic.

 

[Divemaster191307]

...
The estimate for the spark plug change is currently $300 but I wouldn't be surprised to hear it ending up to be around $500 or more all said and done.
...

$300? That's crazy. There's about 1 hour's worth of labor. $90 for the plugs, that's $210/hr for mech... This is a Ford, not a Porsche.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gz5Pd-hrWQ

 

[Ford Explorer9]

$300? That's crazy. There's about 1 hour's worth of labor. $90 for the plugs, that's $210/hr for mech... This is a Ford, not a Porsche.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gz5Pd-hrWQ

Haha I agree it definitely isn't a Porsche. It ended up being $340 out the door for the plugs, since one did break. However they were actually on the low end of the quotes. Most people said $500 to do my trucks plugs, and that's if none broke!

Well after replacing the plugs the mechanic said the misfiring disappeared, however the truck still has no top end so I gave him the go ahead to do the CMCV. I am optimistic that my truck will be healthy after this