06-07 V8 Spark Plug Issue - Change Them Early?

[fonicsmonkey]

OK. Broke the first one I tried. Need help. The top porcelain and the electrode are left, just the threads and "ring" came out. The lisle tool is useless at this point, how do I remove the electrode and the white topside porcelin? Get it broken,pulled,magic tricked out?

How did you get that first broken plug out?

I did the plug/coil job on Monday...80k miles on the clock...My first one did the same thing...only the hex ring came out. I used a long screwdriver to break the top portion off. I placed the tip of the screwdriver along the top edge of the plug (the spot where the coil touches the plug) and applied some pressure to the edge of the spark plug hole and the porcelain broke perfectly leaving only the metal sleeve with the broken porcelain piece in it. Then i used the Lisle tool and it came out. My second plug broke as well only this time the porcelain broke while spinning out the plug. The Lisle tool work perfectly again.

After the second plug broke I loosened the other 6 plugs another 1/8 to 1/4 turn. I think I didn't break them loose enough the first time to allow the Motorcraft Carb Cleaner to seep down (that stuff worked really well btw)...after letting them sit 15 more minutes...they rest came out in tact. They squealed but they came out...the two that made no noise were the ones that broke.

 

[jseabolt]

I changed mine at 114K miles. But I bought mine used. They were apparantly the original plugs from the looks of them. I sprayed a good dose of PB Blaster into the plug holes and had no problems getting them out. They did seem a bit tight compared to what I'm used to. I'm not sure if it was from age or they are supposed to be torqued that much from the factory.

The only problem I had was the #2 Autolite plug was defective right out of the box! The first time I ever bought a defective spark plug. They should be good at $13.00 a piece!

The only thing I broke was the plug wire boot trying to get it off the sparkplug. Luckily I was able to buy just the boot from Advance Auto parts for $10.00. Not cheap for a piece of rubber but cheaper than having to buy a new coil just to get a new boot.

 

[TowingExplorer]

Bit of a misfire the last couple times I drove my V8. Think I might have to finally do this soon. Only at 72k miles. Now I have to find the Lisle tool I bought 3 or so years ago when I first thought about doing this.

 

[jseabolt]

Bit of a misfire the last couple times I drove my V8. Think I might have to finally do this soon. Only at 72k miles. Now I have to find the Lisle tool I bought 3 or so years ago when I first thought about doing this.

What is this Lisle tool for? I just used the smaller type plug socket and some extensions and maybe a swivle.

My best advise is to maybe twist the plug boots off the plugs instead of just yanking them off like I did to prevent breaking the boot from the coil. Ideally if you could spray some WD-40 or something between the boot and the plug would do the trick but I don't think that's possible.

Then once you get the boots off spray a lot of PB blaster around the plugs and let them soak for a few minutes.

 

[TowingExplorer]

What is this Lisle tool for? I just used the smaller type plug socket and some extensions and maybe a swivle.

My best advise is to maybe twist the plug boots off the plugs instead of just yanking them off like I did to prevent breaking the boot from the coil. Ideally if you could spray some WD-40 or something between the boot and the plug would do the trick but I don't think that's possible.

Then once you get the boots off spray a lot of PB blaster around the plugs and let them soak for a few minutes.

I bought the Lisle tool because of this thread years ago. Just never got around to changing the plugs because I don't drive my Explorer much (under 2500 miles last year). If I don't end up needing the tool then no harm.

Now that there's a hesitation even a hundred miles after putting in a fresh full tank of gas, it may be time to change the plugs.

 

[2010Eddie]

Did anybody have a change in gas mileage after installing E3 plugs?

I have a 2007 Mustang 4.6 3V (same motor as my 2010 Explorer) with 52K. On my commute (mostly backroads, some traffic) I was averaging 22-23mpg. I'm currently not working, so figured I got the time, I'll replace the plugs before they become a problem. I put the E3.70 plugs in the Mustang a month ago and my gas mileage dropped to 18-20. Now since I'm not working and commuting, I'm mostly just driving local errands and such, so not the best for gas mileage. But I went out to dinner tonight on some easy cruising backroads and couldn't even break 20 mpg. I guess I'll find out for sure when I'm working again and have a steady commute to gauge by, but right now, I'm disappointed with the gas mileage. Hoping it's just the type of driving holding me back. Has anyone else experienced a change in MPG with E3 (or any other brand of plugs)...positive or negative?

On a positive note, with the E3's, the car started right up, runs smooth, and power is fine. Can't really say it has more power. Runs a tiny bit smoother than before.

I saw Stacey David on that Gearz show recommended them. They did a dyno test showing they got more power and all.

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Now for the replacement story - I ran a 1/2 can of seafoam in the tank before I did the job. Broke em loose 1/4 turn, soaked with carb cleaner (gumout I think) a few hours. @ 52K, they came out with no problems - thank God! The TSB stated the estimated lb/ft torque to remove them and I used my torque wrench the first couple turns set at a lower setting (about 34) and listened for the "click" only 1 or 2 clicked, and I gave it just a little more to remove them. I used the nickel anti-seize on the shank, but not the threads b/c the TSB said to put it on the shank.

Are you supposed to put anti seize on the threads??

Where did everybody buy the nickel anti-seize? I looked at a few auto parts stores and couldn't find it - ended up ordering from Amazon for about $5.

The E3's are supposed to be gapped from the factory and not adjusted at all. I checked the gap and 2 of them were slightly smaller than factory spec (though it really depends how you measure them because they're not shaped like traditional spark plugs) so I "adjusted" 2 of them very slightly to open up the gap. Doubt that's the MPG problem, because the engine runs smooth.

 

[TowingExplorer]

Did anybody have a change in gas mileage after installing E3 plugs?

I have a 2007 Mustang 4.6 3V (same motor as my 2010 Explorer) with 52K. On my commute (mostly backroads, some traffic) I was averaging 22-23mpg. I'm currently not working, so figured I got the time, I'll replace the plugs before they become a problem. I put the E3.70 plugs in the Mustang a month ago and my gas mileage dropped to 18-20. Now since I'm not working and commuting, I'm mostly just driving local errands and such, so not the best for gas mileage. But I went out to dinner tonight on some easy cruising backroads and couldn't even break 20 mpg. I guess I'll find out for sure when I'm working again and have a steady commute to gauge by, but right now, I'm disappointed with the gas mileage. Hoping it's just the type of driving holding me back. Has anyone else experienced a change in MPG with E3 (or any other brand of plugs)...positive or negative?

On a positive note, with the E3's, the car started right up, runs smooth, and power is fine. Can't really say it has more power. Runs a tiny bit smoother than before.

I saw Stacey David on that Gearz show recommended them. They did a dyno test showing they got more power and all.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now for the replacement story - I ran a 1/2 can of seafoam in the tank before I did the job. Broke em loose 1/4 turn, soaked with carb cleaner (gumout I think) a few hours. @ 52K, they came out with no problems - thank God! The TSB stated the estimated lb/ft torque to remove them and I used my torque wrench the first couple turns set at a lower setting (about 34) and listened for the "click" only 1 or 2 clicked, and I gave it just a little more to remove them. I used the nickel anti-seize on the shank, but not the threads b/c the TSB said to put it on the shank.

Are you supposed to put anti seize on the threads??

Where did everybody buy the nickel anti-seize? I looked at a few auto parts stores and couldn't find it - ended up ordering from Amazon for about $5.

The E3's are supposed to be gapped from the factory and not adjusted at all. I checked the gap and 2 of them were slightly smaller than factory spec (though it really depends how you measure them because they're not shaped like traditional spark plugs) so I "adjusted" 2 of them very slightly to open up the gap. Doubt that's the MPG problem, because the engine runs smooth.

At first, I was amazed you got 22-23mpg, but then I re-read and saw you had a Mustang. Ahh, now makes sense.

Like you said, same engine as the Explorer, so thank you for posting your experience here.

Regarding Gearz doing their dyno testing, I don't believe for a second that most of those types of reviews are accurate. It's about a vendor sponsoring the show and the show doing their best to show gains so people buy the product. I'm not saying new plugs won't show gains over old worn out plugs, but I am saying that new NGKs, for example, over the E3's, you probably won't see much of a difference even on the dyno.

That said, some engines just don't like certain plugs. I don't know any science behind it, but this could be one of those cases.

I haven't changed the plugs in my Explorer yet, at just 72k miles now, but I was considering going with the Champions because of their solid design, versus the OE pressed together design, so I won't have to worry about it on any subsequent plug change. However, I've read mixed reviews on those working well in the 4.6L too.

Hopefully someone else will have a comment on the E3. What did you end up gapping them at by the way?

 

[Flag Gibby]

The tips of the E3 plugs run cooler than a standard plug so they work great for a performance modified engine, but for a standard engine they are not worth the price when most engines either don't run well with them or show no change.
As far as the motorcraft plug goes, it was the finish on the plug threads/shank that was causing them to seize and that was changed a few years ago so it shouldn't be a problem with the new plugs now, but it never hurts to put a little antiseize on the threads for ease of mind.
2010 Eddie, most likely the reason that the TSB says to only put the antiseize on the shank is because that is the most likely area that the corrosion could occur that binds the two pieces together.

 

[Bill MacLeod]

The tips of the E3 plugs run cooler than a standard plug so they work great for a performance modified engine, but for a standard engine they are not worth the price when most engines either don't run well with them or show no change.
As far as the motorcraft plug goes, it was the finish on the plug threads/shank that was causing them to seize and that was changed a few years ago so it shouldn't be a problem with the new plugs now, but it never hurts to put a little antiseize on the threads for ease of mind.
2010 Eddie, most likely the reason that the TSB says to only put the antiseize on the shank is because that is the most likely area that the corrosion could occur that binds the two pieces together.

Never seen this info before, is this new data from Ford engineering?

Has TSB 08-7-6 been revised?

 

[Flag Gibby]

No revision on that TSB to my knowledge... still only applicable up to the 2008 model year of the V8 Explorer.
See here for the difference after 2008: http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/TB2_2008_Ford_5.4Land4.6L.pdf
Here is the thread that I had read about them years ago and didn't recall the information correctly. Sorry for any confusion caused. http://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l-v8-technical-discussions/646275-4-6-spark-plugs.html
I thought that I had read somewhere that motorcraft had changed the finish on the plugs to make them less susceptible to seizing, but cannot seem to find any info to support it.

 

[Bill MacLeod]

"Corrosion" is not an issue with this head/plug design. Your comment is misleading and may give some unnecessary concern.
Carbon buildup is the actual problem caused by a very piss poor design. As the OP noted in his first post, change your plugs early and I will add change or maintain them often. Following the TSB is important.
With regards to anti seize on the plug threads, my guess would be that Ford is a little "gun shy" after the issues with the 2 valve motor blowing spark plugs out of the heads. Should not be a problem with this head/plug if used sparingly as you have suggested.

 

[Flag Gibby]

Bill, true I should have just stated it as carbon buildup.
This is the video that ford technicians watch on how to remove the high thread spark plugs on the 5.4 and 4.6L. Type the address into your browser and it will open Windows media player. The video is about 30 minutes long but only the first 15.5 minutes are about the spark plugs... lots of good cross sectional images showing exactly what is going on internally when you go to remove the plugs (normally and when you have to extract one) and explains why the TSB says to do things a certain way.

mms://multimedia.ford.com/seopts/tech26_250k.wmv

 

[Explorer_PL]

I replaced them about 4 times by now for different reason.

But it's amazing that there is a short movie about changing sparkplugs, and a special tool for that.

Who would think that in 60s or 70s

 

[Bill MacLeod]

For the most part, plugs were easy to change back in the 60's/70's.

That video must have been made back around the time that the first TSB was issued, with the Kano Kroil (sp ?) and the use of a small vacuum cap, tap, grease, etc.

It does give a good view of what the issue is and how to deal with the problems. The Lisle extraction tool seems to be the most commonly used tool and so readily available. Bought one myself 3 or 4 years ago, but after 3 plug changes, never had to use it. The Motorcraft carb cleaner does a great job of softening the carbon deposits and also lubricates the plug threads to aid in removal.

So if this is the removal procedure endorsed by Ford engineering, why do the techs use an impact instead on hand tools and without using a penetrating fluid?

 

[Ornery]

Ford engineering

You mean the same folks who caused the problem in the first place?

Mechanics are problem solvers, trying to make money. Engineers?

 

[Explorer_PL]

Leslie tool by far is superior to the Rotunda in that clip.
Correct me, but is that guy saying that if the porcelain tip breaks off in the electrode shield, you need to take the head off ?

Most of them do, but Leslie deals with it by pushing it down to make room for the tread extractor piece.
Don't ask me how I know that

 

[Flag Gibby]

So if this is the removal procedure endorsed by Ford engineering, why do the techs use an impact instead on hand tools and without using a penetrating fluid?

Because they are more interested in doing the job as quickly as possible instead of correctly and the service manager most likely doesn't catch them doing it that way or realize what they are doing.

Explorer PL, yes that is what they are saying since you don't want to chance having any pieces of the porcelain falling into the cylinder.

 

[Ornery]

Here's the "Correct" way to remove your Smart Junction Box:

And, here's the "Mechanic's" method:

You don't have to take half of that stuff off. Trust me, I just did this. Here is the only necessary steps from that manual that you actually need to do:

1, 10, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, and 23. I dont know why the manual has you taking all kinds of other stuff out. There's no need to remove instrument panel bolts or A pillars. I just saved you at least an hour of time.

The "Correct" TSB method for removing broken porcelain, is to use epoxy and long rod to glue it and pull it out. The Lisle tool didn't exist when that TSB was released.

 

[Flag Gibby]

What's up with the attached images Ornery? Wrong images or just an example of two different ways to do the same job? I suspect the second is the point you are trying to make and I missed it at first.

 

[Ornery]

Yeah, that's the freshest example I could find of the "Prescribed" method, VS "Git Er Done". I will tip my hat to the Engineers who designed the Lisle Tool Set. Basically an upgrade of the Ford version, but a significant improvement!